# The Apprentice -- 12/1 and 12/2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495 "2004-12-01T15:04:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/141 "2004-12-04T19:53:15Z")
On a completely different topic, was anyone else completely underwhelmed by the reward? Bill was full of insight and wisdom: “Go out and give it your best. Put it all out there. This is it. Work hard.” Gee, thanks, Bill. Sorry. I mean, Mr. Ransick. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/142 "2004-12-04T19:59:12Z")
Well, it probably isn’t the cheesiest of the “You Get to Meet This Important Person” rewards . At least they got a flight to Chicago in a private jet, that might be fun. Oh wait. It was Sandy and Jen. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![kka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kka)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/143 "2004-12-04T20:07:18Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Kelly was a giant jerk last night. He knew he was in the Final 4 so he was completely unhelpful. I’ve noticed this before; Kelly works his ass off if he’s PM, and either wrests control away or does nothing when he’s not, just goes along and stays quiet. I guess I just don’t like him. He’s as plastic as everyone claims Jenn is, just as cold, except he’s nasty behind people’s backs. He underestimated Jandifer because I think he’s a bit of a sexist dog and thinks he’s automatically superior to blonde hotties. Guess what? Nope. You nailed Kelly with your assessment. I really hope he doesn’t win this thing. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/144 "2004-12-04T22:04:11Z")
I also agree with **Rubystreak** ’s assessment of Kelly. This is exactly why he will win. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/145 "2004-12-04T22:10:00Z")
> [@kka](#): > > You nailed Kelly with your assessment. I really hope he doesn’t win this thing. I don’t know if Kelly has what it takes. We’ve seen the other 3 in the board room, we know how they do under pressure: Sandy gets shrill and talks real fast; Kevin sweats, speaks loudly, and gesticulates; Jenn gets quiet, level, and even. Kelly seems to put his foot in his mouth, which doesn’t bode well for him. I have a theory on why Kelly sent Jenn to the other team. He figured he might make her look bad, besmirch her in the eyes of Trump. He also figured, since she was with Andy and Sandy, she’d lose and maybe get fired. Why? Because I think he realizes that she’s his toughest competition, and he wanted to see her out ASAP. I really hope he doesn’t win. If it can’t be Jenn, I hope it’s Kevin, who seems to be an OK person (though his attitude towards Jenn came from the same sour grapes that Ivana’s did, he wasn’t as petty and nasty about it). ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/146 "2004-12-04T22:27:22Z")
I’d be ok with any of these 4 winning. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/147 "2004-12-04T22:42:29Z")
What I can’t believe is that I’d be happy with Sandy winning. Sandy. I thought she was a bubblehead and totally useless for about the first third of the season. And yet somewhere along the line, she displayed practical leadership in a way that people like Andy or Ivana couldn’t even begin to grasp. Of course, there’s no way Trump would ever hire someone without a college education. Although maybe if he likes her enough, he’ll make her the same offer he made Troy and pay for her to get her degree. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/148 "2004-12-05T01:06:41Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > Of course, there’s no way Trump would ever hire someone without a college education. Sure he would, he wouldn’t give rat’s behind if the person had a college degree if he thought they were the person who should win. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/149 "2004-12-05T01:39:28Z")
Better late then never, and we’ll keep this short but sweet since anything intelligent has probably been said 3 times already. It’s the **Raj Ratings**. **Edmund Fitzgerald** - or, Gone with no hope of returning Bradford, Stacie J., Rob, Pamela, John, Jenn C, Stacy R, Elizabeth, Raj, Chris, Maria, Wes, Andy Ivana (Titanic) – Dumb, just dumb. Ivana’s big problem this whole show can boil down to 2 things. She is obviously self conscious in comparison to other women, hence her oddball attacks on Jenn at all times. She probably sits in the bathroom making herself feel good by thinking “Jenn wouldn’t wipe like this. Her’s would be like, so artificially done.” Ivana’s 2nd problem. She is a textbook reactionary manager. She may think she’s this great font of creativity, but their entire efforts were to stand at a subway exit and hawk bars. I shudder to see what she would have done without higher education. Once she heard about $5 bars, she went into reaction/panic mode and boom, boom. Down comes the skirt. **Titanic** - or, Dead in the water, just waiting for the cargo class to drown Sandy (No change) - I just don’t see you winning. You had another good week, but I think you drop in the interviews. I will say this, you have come from the depths of weakness and had the best 2nd half showing of anyone. It won’t be enough, but well done. The perverted van driver – The candy man? You can’t do comedy. **Bismarck** - or, probably sinking, but it will take a couple more blows Kevin (HMS Pinafore) – I really like you, but I think the interviews get you. Kelly is the golden boy and Jenn is more smooth than triple blended yogurt. **Stuck in dry dock** - or, Who are you? Are you on this show? This level now represents those in transition from weak to strong. No one. **HMS Pinafore** - or, Some singing, some dancing, some tragedy. Overall, not too bad. Kelly (Queen Mary II) – I know last week I said you would win, but I still fervently believe Trump doesn’t pick another white guy. Smart move to stay quiet on an immunity week. Season well done. **Queen Mary II** - or, Leader of the Pack, vroom vroom Jenn M. – (Bismarck) You are still my fave female and I think you have received a bad rap for some non-existent missteps. You seem pretty well balanced and I think Trump likes you. Next week, bye bye Kelly and Sandy. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/150 "2004-12-05T03:11:59Z")
Definitely better late than never, **Mullinator** – it ain’t over till the fat lady – er, the tall guy – uh, whatever. > [@](#): > > Next week, bye bye Kelly and Sandy. Don’t you mean Kevin, based on what you said above? ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/151 "2004-12-05T03:31:18Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Definitely better late than never, **Mullinator** – it ain’t over till the fat lady – er, the tall guy – uh, whatever. > > Don’t you mean Kevin, based on what you said above? Um, yeah. Time to perform a mindwipe on the populace. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Big\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Big\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Big_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/152 "2004-12-05T13:01:30Z")
> [@Theodore Striker](#): > > And if you are going to drop trou for money, at least have some fairly attractive undergarments, those were hideous. I thought that too. When did they start making Underoos for adults?? Eeooww! I’d bet on Jen & Kelly to make it to the two. Anyone in Chicago know where that building is Trump is building there? How tall it will be? ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/153 "2004-12-05T16:42:26Z")
My lessons for the week are short and to the point. Lesson from the task: Pricing and volume are important. So is staying cool under pressure. Lesson from the firing: Win. Don’t strip. Control your people. Don’t attack people who aren’t there. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/154 "2004-12-05T17:10:11Z")
Wouldn’t it have been better for the three people in Ivana’s team to split up? ---
**Author:** ![Sat\_on\_Cookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@Sat\_on\_Cookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sat_on_Cookie)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/155 "2004-12-06T00:16:09Z")
Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but I absolutely do not get Jenn and Sandy’s hair. It’s also been a while since I’ve been in a traditional business environment, but their hairstyles just seem really unprofessional to me. Or even like they could have done a lot more with their hair to convey they were executive material but, instead, both opted for the over-processed, “Let me suck that Jell-O shot off your chest” bar coif. Every time I look at Jenn, I’m distracted by the overdone color, and every time I look at both of them, I want to slather their heads with a nice conditioner. I don’t care how much you like long hair, if it’s long and dry and crackly and screams when it sees the blow dryer, cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/156 "2004-12-06T00:43:02Z")
> [@Sat on Cookie](#): > > Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but I absolutely do not get Jenn and Sandy’s hair. It’s also been a while since I’ve been in a traditional business environment, but their hairstyles just seem really unprofessional to me. Personally, I don’t understand the need for that platinum blonde hair-- it never looks right, doesn’t match your eyebrows, and looks like straw. I also don’t get that one shorter layer in the front. However, long hair is versatile. Just because they look all tramped out in these tasks doesn’t mean that they don’t French braid it or put it up in a bun or something for work. Sandy, as a bridal shop owner, probably fits right in with her hairstyle. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/157 "2004-12-06T00:47:12Z")
I agree that Jenn is a little bleached out for her job, but Sandy is probably right at home in the bridal world. Looking at Jenn, who I find captivating, I think she is more “WELL PUT TOGETHER” than naturally beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/158 "2004-12-07T01:13:04Z")
> [@Sat on Cookie](#): > > Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but I absolutely do not get Jenn and Sandy’s hair. > \ > I don’t care how much you like long hair, if it’s long and dry and crackly and screams when it sees the blow dryer, cut it. I mention this to my husband every single episode. Don’t think he cares all that much, but Sandy’s hair especially makes me crazy. She must spend hours each day straightening it, and it looks hideous. As you said, **SOC** , get some damn conditioner! ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495/159 "2004-12-07T01:36:28Z")
> [@The Big Cheese](#): > > Anyone in Chicago know where that building is Trump is building there? How tall it will be? [http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=102119](http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=102119) 90 floors (1125 feet). It’ll be on the north side of the Chicago River where the Sun Times building now stands. From the look of the rendering at the link above, it’ll crowd out the Wrigley building, which would be a shame. Hopefully they won’t look so quite squished together in real life. Trump now officially owns the site. They still have to knock down the Sun Times before the real construction begins… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-12-1-and-12-2/277495.md?page=7)