# "The Apprentice" jumps the shark -- 11/17/05
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [November 17, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485 "2005-11-17T14:51:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/1 "2005-11-17T14:51:26Z")
Tonight’s task is to write a song.
Now, I can’t imagine Trump _actually_ doing every task in every season – flipping burgers at BK? I don’t think so – but I can imagine him _theoretically_ doing every task, or at least being able to come up with some sort of explanation, however Rube Goldbergian, about why the task involves skills that would be relevant to The Trump Organization.
Not so with writing a song. Wagner. Tchaikovsky. Faure. What the hell does songwriting have to do with business savvy?
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### Author:  [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/2 "2005-11-17T15:19:24Z")
I don’t think many of the tasks are a good measure of executive talent.
Most tasks revolve around marketing, sales, presentation, and event organizing.
Any ‘real’ tests for executive talent would just be too boring for prime-time TV and probably a little over most of the public’s heads (e.g. prepare a proposed budget statement for human resource expenditures, or do a cost analysis on doing in-house advertising vs. outsourcing the work.)
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### Author:  [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/3 "2005-11-17T15:40:31Z")
Yeah, I’ve really been wondering how they’re going to justify this task as even remotely related to the contestants’ abilities to run one of Trump’s companies. I’m looking forward to this episode only because I wish to see how they’re going to make this tie-in.
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### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/4 "2005-11-17T15:46:31Z")
**Hampshire** – yeah, obviously executive talent is a whole different can of worms – but at least most of the tasks are somewhat business related. The show is too heavily slanted towards marketing – but a good executive should be pretty clear about marketing strategies, what works and what doesn’t.
I’m reminded of the policy of some business owners that their offspring should – well, not actually come up through the ranks – but work in all the different departments of the company (including the loading dock, stockroom, etc.) so as to have hands-on experience in all the different elements in running a business. That’s the “Rube Goldbergian rationale” I mention in the OP.
Writing a song, though? :dubious:
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/5 "2005-11-17T15:58:07Z")
I doubt that writing a song is actually the whole task, but is probably just an element of a larger task. I’m guessing that the promos are just using the songwriting thing as a hook to advertise the episode. This will probably have something to do with marketing and advertising a product. I have to believe that they will be actually be judged on some sort of outcome rather than purely on songwriting abilities. I just can’t see the Donald in the board room shouting, “Clay! Your song did not have a good beat! I could NOT dance to it! Clay…YOU’RE FIRED!”
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### Author:  [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/6 "2005-11-17T16:06:37Z")
Maybe they’re going to fire the one who writes the best song, because, obviously, if you can write a really good emotionally fulfilling song, you have too much depth and heart to be an executive.
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### Author:  [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/7 "2005-11-17T16:33:58Z")
No matter how unbusiness-like the task may be, the people on the task still need to use good business sense to get it done. They need to organize the team, create schedules, delegate work, manage the budget, resolve conflicts, etc. The tasks are a joke, but they can be useful to see how people get things done.
So even if both teams come up with crappy songs, how they do it is important. Even if the team knows nothing about songwriting, they can do the background work of finding out what songs are popular, writing a song in the genre, present it to test audiences, etc. They song may still be shite on a stick, but at least they did it in the most business-like way.
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### Author:  [@rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rabbit)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/8 "2005-11-17T16:39:09Z")
There is also one other aspect that no one has mentioned before. No matter how confident you are, try to sing in public. Its one of the things that most people I’ve ever seen get self conscious about. You have exceptions, but particularly in the more conservative business circles, doing something like this, with no obvious “serious” tie in to justify it would make a lot of people very uncomfortable.
I think it would be a good test of how someone would handle an unusual/akward situation.
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### Author:  [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/9 "2005-11-17T17:32:44Z")
I suspect that **DtC** is right about the task, but, anyway, I always enjoy the projects that boil down to “Do whatever crazy shit Donald tells you to.” I suspect that they represent a true test of what you can expect being a Trump employee.
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### Author:  [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/10 "2005-11-17T18:21:32Z")
So, in the same season, writing a song is both a reward and a task? What will the reward be for this task, doing that thing **Hampshire** was talking about?
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### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/11 "2005-11-17T18:23:40Z")
When was writing a song a reward?
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### Author:  [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/12 "2005-11-17T20:52:03Z")
I think it was this season, **twickster**. The guys were in a studio rapping and whatnot with Wyclef Jean. Or am I getting my seasons confused?
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### Author:  [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/13 "2005-11-17T23:04:06Z")
> [@Hampshire](#):
>
> I…
> Any ‘real’ tests for executive talent would just be too boring for prime-time TV and probably a little over most of the public’s heads (e.g. prepare a proposed budget statement for human resource expenditures, or do a cost analysis on doing in-house advertising vs. outsourcing the work.)
For me, at least, I think you hit the nail right square on the head, Hampshire.
I wondered about this from Day One.
Now, I do understand and pretty much got into, that most of the tasks had “something” to do with organization, time/task allocations, etc., etc. But what I still don’t get is that THESE tasks seem to me to be a test of entrepreneurial skills, while the reward is a typical executive-type of management slot. A mid-manager is not necessarily an entrepreneur.
Gotta allow for a good amount of overlap, as the best managers do usually encompass a lot of the other int heir style and operations, so I remain kinda on the fence, but am not convinced.
I gotta say, though…song writing? Does Trump have a recording studio I haven’t heard about?
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### Author:  [@The\_Big\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Big_Cheese)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/14 "2005-11-17T23:09:25Z")
From the tv guide thing on my homepage…
_One Hit Blunder
The remaining six candidates must write and produce an original song for satellite radio; the winning team gets to see what work is like for the original apprentice._
Ding Ding Ding…So is the tie-in for Sirius or XM Satellite radio??
And the reward is to see what work is like for the first winner?? Didn’t they do that last week??? And this is for the winner or for the loser??
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### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/15 "2005-11-18T02:11:53Z")
Continuing my “dialouge” from 2 weeks ago, I half expected to see this at the beginning:
Donald: Here is Miss Universe. She’s hot. And from Australia, so she’s exotic to.
Everyone: Oooh, this task has to do with modeling! That’s so cool!
Donald: Now, you are all going to write a song.
Everyone: Why is Miss Universe here?
Donald: Okay, Clay, look at Miss Universe. Are you seriously still gay? I mean, come on!
Clay: For the last time, yes!!!
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### Author:  [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/16 "2005-11-18T02:33:56Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#):
>
> Continuing my “dialouge” from 2 weeks ago, I half expected to see this at the beginning:
>
> Donald: Here is Miss Universe. She’s hot. And from Australia, so she’s exotic to.
>
> Everyone: Oooh, this task has to do with modeling! That’s so cool!
>
> Donald: Now, you are all going to write a song.
>
> Everyone: Why is Miss Universe here?
>
> Donald: Okay, Clay, look at Miss Universe. Are you seriously still gay? I mean, come on!
>
> Clay: For the last time, yes!!!
So far as I can tell, that’s pretty much the only justification for having her there!
Clay is a tool. He is a whiny drain on any teams’ resources.
Can you imagine if Danny from last season was here for this task?
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### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/17 "2005-11-18T02:44:20Z")
So – are they going to be able to blame this loss on Clay?
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/18 "2005-11-18T02:44:42Z")
This loss is Rebecca’s fault, not Clay’s. He was whiny for sure, but the reason they lost is because Rebecca got obsessed with her notion that “intellectuals” are craving Nigerian backstories. She chose a genre that didn’t fit the station. She failed to fit the client’s need. This is also the second time she’s lost as PM. She’s the one who deserves to be fired.
I feel bad for that singer that looks like Seal. He got saddled with some bad material… He wasn’t completey untalented, though. maybe the exposure from the show will help get a real deal with competent people.
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### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/19 "2005-11-18T02:51:17Z")
Yeah, I’m afraid you’re right.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-jumps-the-shark-11-17-05/331485/20 "2005-11-18T03:10:24Z")
Well, I still don’t think that Clay was the reason for the loss but it’s haed to argue with the firing based on his history.
I’m confused. There are two episodes next week but only the final four will be revealed? Aren’t there five people left? Does that mean one of the episodes will not have a firing?
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