# The AR-15 and the Navy Yard shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 22, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443 "2013-09-22T14:03:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/341 "2013-10-04T02:32:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So the worst they were guilty of was lazy journalism, a far cry from the liberal hard on to besmirch an innocent rifle like the OP claimed. A far cry from what? How many media outlets reported today that the driver of black vehicle ramming Whitehouse posts and police vehicles was the shooter? A shooter that didn’t have a firearm, as it eventually turns out? Are they guilty of lazy journalism, AGAIN??? YET AGAIN??? Getting to be quite the habit, isn’t it. Journalists, editors, bloggers, readers, posters all see what they wanted/expected to see. But the media outlets are expected to verify their stories. At least some people expect them to verify their stories. Others don’t seem to care if the story is true or not as long as it gores their particular bull. Media outlet history suggests that the AR15 appears to have become a favorite target of the LSM. (The LSM being the media outlets who don’t/can’t/won’t verify their stories before publishing them.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/342 "2013-10-04T02:40:09Z")
Wondering why none of them said “Bushmaster”, the latest g\*un du jour \*of the big scary variety. Assuming this was a deliberate move by the gun-grabbing reporters and editors, but not a conspiracy, since we are assured that it wasn’t. Several actors, acting in concert, but not a conspiracy. Well, OK. Alternative explanation: nobody gave a rat’s. Nobody bothered to run down that detail because they didn’t really care, because the story wasn’t “AR-15 used in crime!” but the story was “Innocent people are dead!”. Just a thought. Perhaps it didn’t even occur to them to think about how this would appear to **Bricker** _et. al._ Aside: Bushmaster. Deadly snake of the Amazon. OK, so maybe these things \*aren’t \*deliberately marketed to hyper-masculine victims of testosterone poisoning. Do they make a “Hello Kitty” automatic weapon? “My Little Colt .45”? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/343 "2013-10-04T02:41:55Z")
“Authorities said the Secret Service chased her and she exchanged gunshots with police near the Capitol.” > **[NEW: Female D.C. shooting suspect shot and killed, baby with her is okay](https://kfor.com/news/u-s-capitol-on-lockdown-after-shots-fired-nearby/)** > > \[protected-iframe id=”94f047b23f890be593dcc8dc9d0d9b8b-29519643-20541861″ info=” width=”660″ height=”400″\] UPDATE 10:04 p.m. – Authorities say the su… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/344 "2013-10-04T02:43:13Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > … the AR15 appears to have become a favorite target of the LSM… “Appears” being the operative word. If you already believed in a liberal media bent on advancing the gun grabber cause before you read this thread, you probably still do. But if you didn’t, you most likely haven’t changed your mind. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/345 "2013-10-04T03:03:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Appears” being the operative word. If you already believed in a liberal media bent on advancing the gun grabber cause before you read this thread, you probably still do. But if you didn’t, you most likely haven’t changed your mind. “Actually” appears. The media outlets have an established history of repeatedly mentioning the AR15 while reporting this story. An AR15 that did NOT exist. Why would anyone expect you to change your mind? The media outlets repeatedly wrote about an AR15 that didn’t exist and you can’t see a problem with that fact. I see a LSM that can’t/won’t verify their stories when they can repeatedly mention an AR15 and sell more advertisment as a result. Remington shotgun? Nah, that doesn’t seem to carry the same level of media interest. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/346 "2013-10-04T03:12:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So the worst they were guilty of was lazy journalism, a far cry from the liberal hard on to besmirch an innocent rifle like the OP claimed. If “lazy journalism” only happens in one direction, then it’s not accurate to call it simply “lazy journalism.” The errors from this supposed “lazy journalism,” never seem to favor the Second Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/347 "2013-10-04T03:21:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If “lazy journalism” only happens in one direction, then it’s not accurate to call it simply “lazy journalism.” The errors from this supposed “lazy journalism,” never seem to favor the Second Amendment. So there has never been a case where initial reports underestimated the firepower of an attack? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/348 "2013-10-04T03:25:39Z")
So, they should be pressed to provide substantiation when they offer bald and sweeping declarations, based on no more tangible authority than their own? There, I think, you have a very good point. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/349 "2013-10-04T03:33:40Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So there has never been a case where initial reports underestimated the firepower of an attack? For instance, you have the dearth of any news reporting of plucky and brave citizens protecting themselves from mayhem with their guns. We are assured that this happens millions of times, indeed, this very fact provides a central pillar in the argument for an armed public. Almost expect Garrison Keillor to relate a Lake Wobegon story about Mrs. Lindstrom plugging a couple of ravening home invaders. But the local media suppresses those stories. Hardly a word. Or look at the coverage of the militia movement, can’t hardly get more 2nd Amendment than that! Hell, read that slanted coverage, and you get the idea the militia movement is nothing more than a bunch of chubby, middle aged Rambo wannabes, camping out in their camos and scratching their balls. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/350 "2013-10-04T03:51:57Z")
I am working on the definitive monograph of the SDMB, is this thread done failing loudly, or should I wait a couple days before describing it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/351 "2013-10-04T14:20:00Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So there has never been a case where initial reports underestimated the firepower of an attack? I’m reluctant to say never, especially if you include sources like Fox, which has the same problems of bias but in the other direction, as I have mentioned earlier in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/352 "2013-10-04T14:24:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m reluctant to say never, especially if you include sources like Fox, which has the same problems of bias but in the other direction, as I have mentioned earlier in this thread. So you wouldn’t make a bet on it… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/353 "2013-10-04T15:40:29Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So you wouldn’t make a bet on it… Of course not; when news outlets like Fox underestimate the firepower of an attack, it is precisely the sort of action my complaint envisions. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/354 "2013-10-04T16:03:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Of course not; when news outlets like Fox underestimate the firepower of an attack, it is precisely the sort of action my complaint envisions. So, contrary to your previous statement, lazy journalism sometimes does favor the Second Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/355 "2013-10-04T16:20:41Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I am working on the definitive monograph of the SDMB, is this thread done failing loudly, or should I wait a couple days before describing it? Why would your definitive monograph of the SDMB require that any one thread within the SDMB come to an end? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/356 "2013-10-04T16:35:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So there has never been a case where initial reports underestimated the firepower of an attack? I find it odd/interesting that there are more stories linking a non-existant AR15 to the Navy Yard monster than there are stories linking the actual firearm used, a Remington 870 shotgun, to the Navy Yard monster. Just what is the media outlets mission statement? _Facts be damned. Full speed ahead. We MuSt Be FiRsT. And if we can blame the AR15 for something/anything, so much the better. All the news we believe the readers should have._ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/357 "2013-10-04T17:19:56Z")
Bleeding obvious, isn’t it? The reason there were more stories with mistaken information/rabid gun-grabber propaganda is that identification came out while the story was still “hot”. There were more stories, period. And then there weren’t as many stories, because the news wasn’t new, anymore. No doubt, you might feel better if the top news story for several days was the astonishing and perfidious sort-of-conspiracy to demonize semi-automatic weapons. But it wasn’t, because nobody is that interested, save for a particularly and peculiarly focused segment of the population. And the reason the news media doesn’t pander to your desires is: there aren’t that many of you. _Tres duh, mais non?_ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/358 "2013-10-04T18:15:36Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So, contrary to your previous statement, lazy journalism sometimes does favor the Second Amendment? In a thread discussing the Chesapeake Bay, I might make a statement about the effect of pollution on the bay. It would be clueless for you to object to my statement because it wasn’t accurate as concerning bay leaves, bay-colored horses, gas station service bays, or a dog’s prolonged barking at the moon. In this thread, I have repeatedly and clearly laid out the context of my specific complaint, and I have also repeatedly and clearly pointed out that other news outlets, such as Fox, are subject to the same flawed process but with generally opposite viewpoints. It’s also, then, a clueless observation to suggest that I ever said that lazy journalism never favors the Second Amendment _in the correct context._ That context, of course, would exclude at a minimum outlets similar to Fox, who suffer from the same “laziness” but whose outlook drives the “laziness” in the precise opposite direction. That context was established by at least the following posts: Post #74: > [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, let me correct this statement. Fox News is not generally a part of the specific instance of this problem: holding back on detail about the Ar-15’s non-involvement. > > However, they are among the worst offenders in the more general case of this problem: refusing to report on facts which are inconvenient to their narrative. In fact, apart from MSNBC, they may be the absolute worst in this area. Posts 77, 126, 168, and 290 all reinforce that basic point. So the context is clearly NOT that there’s never errors in reporting from anywhere that would favor the Second Amendment – Posts 74, 77, 126, 168, and 290 all explicitly acknowledge the existence of media outlets that would be inclined to do precisely that. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/359 "2013-10-05T02:39:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > … And the reason the news media doesn’t pander to your desires is: there aren’t that many of you. > > _Tres duh, mais non?_ (shortened for clarity) “Pander to my desires”? My “desire” is that the media outlets verify their information BEFORE they publish rumors as fact. _Get it first but first get it right_. I don’t think that’s asking too much of any organization that wants to be known as a news station or newspaper. I don’t expect the media outlets to act like some internet blog. The blogosphere has no standards. Pandering, spin, twists, slander, and lies are all considered acceptable, or normal, there. SNAFU more accurately describes most blog sites. I’m disappointed (not in you) that you believe that there aren’t more people who demand that media outlets do a better job than they have been doing. _Gunter glieben glauchen globen_ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443/360 "2013-10-05T03:09:49Z")
Can’t happen, and its not their fault, its ours. We, the public, want to know, and want to know it right now. If you stand there and tell us about how your principles simply will not permit you to pass along partial and sketchy reports, we might very well admire that stance as we change the channel. We demand it now, and they serve it up. That’s not the Chicago way, that’s the _American_ way! They said he was from Texas, yes? As a recovering Texan, it annoys me that it wasn’t really true, he had been more or less “stationed” in Texas, but of late didn’t live there. Later reporting did not even once offer me a blubbering apology for deliberately sowing the perception of Texans as belligerent and dangerous whackos. (The truth of that stereotype is _not_ the issue, here! So just don’t!) Am I justified in rolling around on the floor, screaming and tearing my hair because of the liberal non-conspiracy to slander Texans? After all, everybody knows reporters are prejudiced against Texans! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ar-15-and-the-navy-yard-shooting/669443.md?page=19)