# The Arab Uprisings Have Gone Too Far **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373 "2011-02-23T19:48:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/221 "2011-02-26T00:31:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > More to the point, even if democracy was bad and the USA evil, that doesn’t make Communism good. “Democracy is the worst form of government.” -Sir Winston Churchill 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/222 "2011-02-26T00:43:29Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > And I begin to suspect (ok…I suspected for quite a long time, but trying to go with the ‘mocking your words’ theme here) that you are dodging the question by yet again trying to divert the discussion into silly little side issues (like trying to say that because Qin is from SOUTH Korea that disproves anything he says and renders any request from him to you for backing up your claims moot…or something). I think you (and most other posters here) missed the point of my remark. Let me clarify: Quin is a South Korean claiming that the Imperial intervention in favor of South Korea was a good thing. I am pointing out that Quin is clearly biased by his nationality and upbringing, and hence his views on the subject should not be accepted as universal gospel. I would assume that a typical North Korean would have a less rosy take on the Imperial meddling in Korean affairs. > [@Monty](#): > > Well, there seem to be plenty of job openings in his regime lately. The most recent, of course, is his long-time friend who represented him as the Libyan ambassador to the United Nations. You now have all kinds of opportunity to suppor the murderer. Incidentally, I am now hoping that this whole debacle turns out to be a blessing in disguise. If the Colonel manages to rally the people behind him and holds on to power, he will have a very clear idea of which people are loyal and which are backstabbing traitors… If this happens, I foresee a lot of undesirables electing not to return to Libya. > [@](#): > > As for your earlier comment regarding voter turnout: that is one method of voting, it’s a statement equivalent to agreeing to follow the expressed majority opinion. Ha. Nice idea, but I’m not buying it. It seems to me that apathy, political marginalization, and the way the systems are set up all tend to keep more potential voters at home that your alleged act of political protest. I, for one, largely ignore Imperial “elections” - not because I believe that it sends a message, but rather because the system has been deliberately set up in a way that disfranchises me of meaningful political choices. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/223 "2011-02-26T00:47:54Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Let me clarify: Quin is a South Korean He’s an American of South Korean descent. > [@](#): > > If the Colonel manages to rally the people behind him and holds on to power If he were doing that, he probably would not need to hire mercenaries from other countries. > [@](#): > > If this happens, I foresee a lot of undesirables electing not to return to Libya. Yes, if he survives (and he won’t) a lot of people will “get murdered.” ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/224 "2011-02-26T01:36:48Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Indeed, where? I am dying to know your sources - please regale me with them. Of course you won’t accept any of these sources but let’s see Wikipedia, standard history textbooks, history books in general, various news sources, etc., etc. But you probably won’t accept any “bourgeois” source > [@](#): > > … and I am proven correct. Your opinion is noted; your opinion is nothing more than Yankee propaganda. You have spoken like a true Communist. And isn’t yours Red propaganda? [quote=“Commissar, post:214, topic:572373”] I’m glad that you’re willing to admit that countless deaths have been caused by Yankee imperialism, my friend (too many Westerners are not). However, I think that your numbers (2-5 million) are a bit on the low side. For example, the number of Vietnamese killed alone in approximately 2 million - twice what you allege. I’m not sure whether a total tally is available, but I would imagine that it would be at least an an order of magnitude bigger than what you believe. Still, thank you for not trying to deny history. > [@](#): > > And I stand by that statement. While the North Koreans may have initiated actual armed hostilities, I do not believe that this should be the point at which we assign blame for the conflict. The only reason they had to attack was US meddling in the region and support for a puppet Southern regime. Thus, I maintain that the American Empire started the Korean War. Then what of the Soviet meddling and the Soviet puppet state of North Korea? You think all Communist states are from the will of the people and all democracies or pro-Western governments are puppets? :dubious: And unlike South Korea, North Korea is heavily dependent on the PRC and food aid from the USA and South Korea and would probably have collapsed without support. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/225 "2011-02-26T02:09:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m also a bit amused by his implications that brown people like myself shouldn’t be allowed to choose who rules us, but should be ruled by those who’ve adapted a European philosophy(admittedly ne rejected by most Europeans). I’m not sure I follow your argument (or lack thereof), but you seem to be saying that “brown people” should never, under any circumstances, adopt a political or economic system thought up by whites. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that strikes me as a particularly racist stance. Oh, the irony… > [@xtisme](#): > > I freely admit that America has done more than it’s share of bad things, many of which have seen people in other countries dead, maimed or in misery. That has less to do with the US being a democracy as it has with the US being a superpower, however. The one in denial here is you. And you’re back to being an apologist for Yankee imperialism… Really, the US is not to blame because it’s just doing the typical superpower thing?!? That is so sad and absurd… Your position would be stronger were it not easily contradicted by reality. For instance, glorious China has somehow managed to become a superpower without feeling that it has a manifest destiny to goose-step across the globe, burning and pillaging all in its path. Apparently a superpower CAN be peaceful, non-belligerent, and respectful of the sovereignty of other states. Who would have thought? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/226 "2011-02-26T02:35:57Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > I’m not sure I follow your argument (or lack thereof), but you seem to be saying that “brown people” should never, under any circumstances, adopt a political or economic system thought up by whites. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that strikes me as a particularly racist stance. Oh, the irony… > > And you’re back to being an apologist for Yankee imperialism… Really, the US is not to blame because it’s just doing the typical superpower thing?!? That is so sad and absurd… Your position would be stronger were it not easily contradicted by reality. For instance, glorious China has somehow managed to become a superpower without feeling that it has a manifest destiny to goose-step across the globe, burning and pillaging all in its path. Apparently a superpower CAN be peaceful, non-belligerent, and respectful of the sovereignty of other states. Who would have thought? Excuse me? China is not a full superpower yet however they’ve already invaded Tibet, oppresses the Uighurs and other minority populations and dissidents, and supports several unsavoury governments. China by all mean is not peaceful because they are hippies but because they don’t need war. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/227 "2011-02-26T02:38:48Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Actually, every nation deserves that fate. Those who cower, like you, at the prospect of your political views being appraised by the body politic are the only ones who decry that. This pretty much sums up the entire train wreck of a thread. People who don’t like democracy - and this isn’t just silliness like Commissar, but also the poster who insisted in that other thread that democracy doesn’t work - don’t like it because, deep down inside, they realize that most people don’t agree with their opinions, and democracy means their opinions get shot down. In real life, you know why places like East Germany, Cuba, and North Korea don’t let their citizens leave? Emigration’s a form of voting. Because they knew they were wrong, they knew (or in Cuba’s case, know) that they’re inherently evil, and it’s embarassing to them when people vote with their feet. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/228 "2011-02-26T03:08:10Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > I’m not sure I follow your argument (or lack thereof), but you seem to be saying that “brown people” should never, under any circumstances, adopt a political or economic system thought up by whites. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that strikes me as a particularly racist stance. Oh, the irony… No, that’s not what I said. Anyone who thinks that either needs to reread it or work on their reading comprehension skills. What I did say was that you clearly don’t trust non-whites to rule themselves but want them ruled by ideologues committed to a European philosophy that’s been rejected in Europe. You have also expressed opinions that are clearly quite racist, claiming that certain people, namely Qin, can’t be trusted based on their nationality which is, of course, the very definition of racism. > [@](#): > > **Commissar** > I am pointing out that Quin is clearly biased by his nationality As I said, that’s mighty white of you. The above isn’t meant as an insult incidentally. It’s obvious that you’re a wealthy white kid who’s led an extremely sheltered life and that is something we should all take into consideration. Amongst other things, leading such a sheltered life has led you to make such foolish assumptions as the idea that the PRC is remotely Communist. Yes, they claim to be communist but they pretty clearly jettisoned dialectal materialism a long time ago which is why they have so many really wealthy individuals and businesses there. In reality, they’re far more like Fascist Italy under Mussolini then Lenin’s Soviet Union. They’re no more communist than the Democratic Republic of Germany was Democratic. Anyway, if you wish to learn more I can help you, but if you’d prefer someone white, since you clearly don’t trust those of us who aren’t white, I can point you in the direction of those that can. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/229 "2011-02-26T03:13:49Z")
[QUOTE=Commissar] And you’re back to being an apologist for Yankee imperialism… Really, the US is not to blame because it’s just doing the typical superpower thing?!? That is so sad and absurd… Your position would be stronger were it not easily contradicted by reality. For instance, glorious China has somehow managed to become a superpower without feeling that it has a manifest destiny to goose-step across the globe, burning and pillaging all in its path. Apparently a superpower CAN be peaceful, non-belligerent, and respectful of the sovereignty of other states. Who would have thought? [/QUOTE] And you are a communist apologist of the first order. Really, you’ve picked a much harder row to hoe (which should fit in well as you join the good workers and peasants, ehe?). Reality wise, my position is a lot closer said reality than your own, since mine has the happy coincidence of being true (or close to the truth) and yours is pretty much pure fantasy. As for China, the road to them becoming a regional superpower has been strewn with enough bodies to choke a buzzard. They slaughtered or starved literally millions of their own people, and basically continue to hold them back to a shitty standard of living in the name of crass lucre…which makes it rather surprising that you support them (or did you only support them in their more murderous infancy? Do you still see them, feudal crony capitalists as they are today, as a beacon of goodness and light?). As for non-belligerence, have you noticed that the Tibetan’s aren’t of a similar mind? And have you noticed their recent adventures in Africa? True, they haven’t sent their military in…yet. But it sure looks like economic imperialism from where I’m sitting. Or did you not know about it? You don’t seem very well read on either past or current events, after all… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/230 "2011-02-26T03:50:03Z")
Do we know anything about **Commissar** ’s background? For some reason I’ve thought he was a revanchist Soviet. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/231 "2011-02-26T04:54:32Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > People who don’t like democracy - and this isn’t just silliness like Commissar, but also the poster who insisted in that other thread that democracy doesn’t work - don’t like it because, deep down inside, they realize that most people don’t agree with their opinions, and democracy means their opinions get shot down. To a certain degree, this is true; I fully expect that my political theory, which involves the cessation of popular elections, would fail to get a majority in a popular election. Why would the people vote to give up their vote? Still, this doesn’t prove what you appear to assume it proves… “Deep down inside,” you’re operating under the axiom that the popular choice is the correct choice. I disagree. There is nothing inherently angelic about unruly mobs, and there is nothing to indicate that they will always make sound decisions. > [@](#): > > In real life, you know why places like East Germany, Cuba, and North Korea don’t let their citizens leave? Emigration’s a form of voting. Because they knew they were wrong, they knew (or in Cuba’s case, know) that they’re inherently evil, and it’s embarassing to them when people vote with their feet. Cherry-picking will only get you so far, my friend. You seem to have forgotten about the glorious PRC, which is both the most successful socialist state in the history of humanity and seems to have no problem with letting its people come and go as they please. So there goes that particular argument… > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What I did say was that you clearly don’t trust non-whites to rule themselves but want them ruled by ideologues committed to a European philosophy that’s been rejected in Europe. I believe that no people, of whatever race or national origin, should be allowed to rule themselves. I’m sorry that you choose to see a non-existent racial distinction there. I’m also sorry that you would disregard an entire school of thought because its founders were white. I assume that you also oppose the teaching of modern physics, given the race of Newton, Einstein, et al. > [@](#): > > You have also expressed opinions that are clearly quite racist, claiming that certain people, namely Qin, can’t be trusted based on their nationality which is, of course, the very definition of racism. No. First of all, I said that Qin’s opinions are clearly biased; I did not say that they are worthless. Secondly, discrimination on nationality would still fail to qualify as racism. Conflating nationality and race is an elementary yet common mistake. > [@](#): > > As I said, that’s mighty white of you. > > The above isn’t meant as an insult incidentally. I disagree. I think that it is aptly clear that you are attempting to insult me, but your clumsy presentation leaves much to be desired. I would also look for a different approach if I were you; trying to play the racism card against me will get you absolutely nowhere. > [@](#): > > It’s obvious that you’re a wealthy white kid who’s led an extremely sheltered life and that is something we should all take into consideration. Wow, I learn new things about myself every day… :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Amongst other things, leading such a sheltered life has led you to make such foolish assumptions as the idea that the PRC is remotely Communist. > > Yes, they claim to be communist but they pretty clearly jettisoned dialectal materialism a long time ago which is why they have so many really wealthy individuals and businesses there. Nope. Private entrepreneurship no more makes China capitalist than the welfare system makes the US Communist. The world is not that black and white, my friend. > [@](#): > > In reality, they’re far more like Fascist Italy under Mussolini then Lenin’s Soviet Union. I disagree with the comparison, but would like to focus on the second part of this statement, instead. You seem to be laboring under the assumption that all socialist states need to be like the USSR. This is incorrect. There are as many interpretations of Marxist-Leninist thought as there are socialist states in the world. North Korea is not like the USSR, China is not like either of them, and so forth. There is no “check-the-box” approach to socialism, any more than there is to capitalism. These are schools of thought - actual implementation will vary country by country, so you may as well get used to it. If you expect to see a second Soviet Union in China, you’re going to have to prepare for a very long wait. > [@](#): > > Anyway, if you wish to learn more I can help you, but if you’d prefer someone white, since you clearly don’t trust those of us who aren’t white, I can point you in the direction of those that can. I think that you can get by without ridiculous comments such as these. Let’s try to keep this discussion as civil and rational as possible, if you please. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/232 "2011-02-26T05:16:24Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > I’m sorry that you choose to see a non-existent racial distinction there. I’m also sorry that you would disregard an entire school of thought because its founders were white. I assume that you also oppose the teaching of modern physics, given the race of Newton, Einstein, et al. That’s not what I said at all. You clearly didn’t read what I wrote very closely. > [@](#): > > Secondly, discrimination on nationality would still fail to qualify as racism. Conflating nationality and race is an elementary yet common mistake. Race is a myth. Discrimination on the basis of nationality is racism. You’ve expressed sentiments which are clearly racist. Saying that Qin is biased or can’t be trusted because he’s of Korean descent is no different than claiming that Obama can’t be trusted because he’s black. > [@](#): > > Nope. Private entrepreneurship no more makes China capitalist than the welfare system makes the US Communist. If you honestly think that country that promotes private entrepreneurship is communist or socialist then you clearly don’t understand what it’s about. You shouldn’t feel bad about that. You’ve clearly led a very sheltered life and your views are a product of that. If you want, I can recommend some books to read if you would like to be better educated about this philosophy you claim to love. > [@](#): > > I think that you can get by without ridiculous comments such as these. Let’s try to keep this discussion as civil and rational as possible, if you please. I’ve been extremely civil with you so I’m not sure why you’re accusing me of being uncivil. You’ve just made it clear that you feel there are certain nationalities that can’t be trusted because they’re biased so if you want I can tailor advise so it only comes from people who’s nationalities you find acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/233 "2011-02-26T07:19:45Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Race is a myth. An interesting idea, and one that may or may not be true, depending on how technical you want to get. Also, quite irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You are probably aware that human beings tend to have exterior variances, and that some humans discriminate against other humans based on said variances. That discrimination is commonly referred to as “racism.” If you are going to accuse me of racism, I expect you to show me where exactly my words were racist. > [@](#): > > Discrimination on the basis of nationality is racism. No, it is not. A hypothetical person that hates all US citizens is not a “racist” for the very simple reason that the category of “US citizens” will contain each and every single race currently in existence. Your argument is a dead-end street. Give up. > [@](#): > > Saying that Qin is biased or can’t be trusted because he’s of Korean descent is no different than claiming that Obama can’t be trusted because he’s black. I already clarified my position several times. Since you apparently refuse to understand the clarification, I would like to quote your own words back at you: “That’s not what I said at all. You clearly didn’t read what I wrote very closely.” > [@](#): > > If you honestly think that country that promotes private entrepreneurship is communist or socialist then you clearly don’t understand what it’s about. See above. Also, I live in a US city that has a government-controlled public transportation system. In other words, a state-owned enterprise. According to your logic, this makes said city a Communist municipality. Good to know. > [@](#): > > You shouldn’t feel bad about that. You’ve clearly led a very sheltered life and your views are a product of that. See below. > [@](#): > > I’ve been extremely civil with you so I’m not sure why you’re accusing me of being uncivil. Really? Well, let’s see… You claimed that I was a racist. You claimed that I am condescending towards “brown people,” which came completely out of left field. And, in the statement above, you repeated an insulting assertion that you cannot possibly have any basis for holding. Notice that I have done none of this. I have not insulted you, I have not sought to attach disparaging labels to you, and I have not tried to speculate concerning your family or upbringing. I have remained civil to you, and I intend to do so in perpetuity. If you cannot be bothered to extend me the same respect, I am afraid that it will be impossible for us to engage in further dialog. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/234 "2011-02-26T07:22:37Z")
Ahhh, the age old defense “My claims don’t evince racism, they evince bigotry!” Good times, good times. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/235 "2011-02-26T08:57:36Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Notice that I have done none of this. I have not insulted you, I have not sought to attach disparaging labels to you, and I have not tried to speculate concerning your family or upbringing. I have remained civil to you, and I intend to do so in perpetuity. If you cannot be bothered to extend me the same respect, I am afraid that it will be impossible for us to engage in further dialog. I haven’t accused you of being a racist. I’ve simply mentioned you hold racist beliefs and you’ve admitted to such beliefs by stating that some people are biased due to their nationalities. Also, I wasn’t insulting you or your family by suggesting that you’re white or well-off unless you think there’s something wrong with being white or well-off. I was merely mentioning that because it seems pretty clear that it’s a fairly accurate description of you. I notice you haven’t denied them. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/236 "2011-02-26T09:57:05Z")
However Ibn, I would note that you’re probably wrong on one point. Yes, Commissar’s position is obviously, offensive, dangerous, irrational, brutal, repugnant, and based on willful ignorance as well as fictional claims. But he wants to consign whites, non-whites, westerners, non-westerns, (and so on) to the living hell that is totalitarianism. It’s not just Arabs who he thinks should be brutalized by autocratic thugs, his purported perfect world would be a boot stamping on a human face, forever. The color of the face is immaterial. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/237 "2011-02-26T11:57:27Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > I believe that no people, of whatever race or national origin, should be allowed to rule themselves. And with this, the thread shoots straight from [_Nineteen Eighty-Four_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four) to [_Animal Farm_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm)! When can we expect the flight to [_Brave New World_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World)? > [@](#): > > First of all, I said that Qin’s opinions are clearly biased; I did not say that they are worthless. Actually, you accused him of being biased based on nothing other than his ethnicity, Korean, and his nationality, American. For the comedic punchline, you took his clear description of himself as something he clearly did not say. You said he is Korean. > [@](#): > > Secondly, discrimination on nationality would still fail to qualify as racism. Conflating nationality and race is an elementary yet common mistake. You really do not know anything substantive about either Korea, do you? “The Korean Race” is A Very Big Thing[sup]tm[/sup] for both countries when it comes to describing “Korean-ness.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/238 "2011-02-26T12:32:18Z")
OK, **Commissar** , there have now been numerous accusations that you are just trolling. Up until last night, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are just wrong, however, several of your digressions over the last day have lent weight to the troll accusation. So, just to ensure that you are not a troll, you will now take the time to lay out a consistent political philosophy with an explanation of your beliefs. You will also point to specific references that support your versions of history. If all you are going to do is dance around the topics, insulting political theories with which you purport to disagree and claiming all the facts that are inconvenient to your odd claims are false, you need to provide something substantial for your opponents to address. A failure to actually present substance and support in your posts will be taken as a _de facto_ admission of trolling. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/239 "2011-02-26T12:58:31Z")
You better be careful **Commissar** - or Qhougkdhaaphii may sue you. > [@](#): > > “If you or someone else says that Libya is not a democracy then it would be considered an insult,” he said. “We could go to court to redeem honor from that insult.” > **[Opinion: The bizarre Gadhafi I met](https://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/23/mann.gadhafi/index.html)** > > Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi is the strangest head of state I've ever met. When I asked him about Libyan democracy he threatened to sue. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t support the Libyan protests - they’re just trying to throw off the shackles of Democracy. Isn’t that somehting you support? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/240 "2011-02-26T13:53:32Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > No, it is not. A hypothetical person that hates all US citizens is not a “racist” for the very simple reason that the category of “US citizens” will contain each and every single race currently in existence. Your argument is a dead-end street. Give up. “Race” can be synonymous with “Nationality,” as you will find in any good dictionary, and in fact the term “race” has been used to mean “nationality” for as long as the term “race” has been in vogue. “Race” is a subjective term. The American fashion of referring to races by skin colour is far from the only fashion. If someone treats Americans, Brazilians, or Germans as if they are a group with a shared characteristic, they’re treating them as a race. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373.md?page=13)