# The Arab Uprisings Have Gone Too Far **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373 "2011-02-23T19:48:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/21 "2011-02-23T21:13:29Z")
I heard the Libyan ambassador to Ukraine describe the Colonel as Gadaffi-Hitler. The Commissar should see the uprising as glorious people’s partisan action of the Great Patriotic War. I also heard the Colonel has a Prætorian Guard made up entirely of hot chicks. I think it’s about time we see then in action. Up and close action. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/22 "2011-02-23T21:15:56Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > In other threads Commissar has claimed to be opposed to democracy, on the theory that the idiot citizenry might vote against communism. It’s also his belief that the people are too stupid to be allowed to govern themselves and that governance should be conducted by some sort of elite (read, people who think like he does) who knows what’s best. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/23 "2011-02-23T21:19:04Z")
I guess someone’s a fan of the Green Book. Either that or, more likely, they have their tongue planted firmly in their cheek. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/24 "2011-02-23T21:20:44Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > lol..history makes crazy people angry! Let’s keep the comments about other posters out of Great debates. [/Modding] = = = > [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > Wow, **Commissar** ’s still here? I’m surprised. Why? We allow humor in GD, too. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/25 "2011-02-23T21:24:14Z")
I’d be upset, were it anyone other than **Commissar** writing the OP. As it is, it’s kind of funny. On a slightly more substantive note, how do you ( **Commissar** ) reconcile your support of Qaddafi with his decision to hire foreign mercenaries to put down the revolt? Foreign mercenaries about as capitalist-tyranny-evil as you can get, really. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/26 "2011-02-23T21:26:43Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > I heard the Libyan ambassador to Ukraine describe the Colonel as Gadaffi-Hitler. The Commissar should see the uprising as glorious people’s partisan action of the Great Patriotic War. I also heard the Colonel has a Prætorian Guard made up entirely of hot chicks. I think it’s about time we see then in action. Up and close action. [About as close as you’ll get.](http://www.zimbio.com/Muammar+Qadaffi/articles/Cud-KZGU6DN/AMAZONS+Five+Gaddafi+lipsticked+virgins+Bodyguards) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/27 "2011-02-23T21:28:10Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Either that or, more likely, they have their tongue planted firmly in their cheek. That’s not his cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/28 "2011-02-23T21:34:24Z")
Do not question the righteous wisdom of the Revolutionary Vanguard, Comrade! It’s re-education for you! ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/29 "2011-02-23T21:36:04Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Well, let’s see now. Gadhafi has held power in Libya since 1969. How many times in that span of more than forty years has he really measured the popular will of his countrymen in a fair election? Did he ever contemplate stepping down if his countrymen demanded a shift in power? Events of the present indicate that these considerations weren’t foremost in his mind. > > You take sides according to your viewpoint, not according to the genuine popular will in these countries. You are the furthest thing from a democrat. This is not an insult, just an observation. You would probably readily admit that you are interested in other political values more than democracy. > > The problem is that these attitudes lead to autocratic (or worse) systems where human rights abuses are commonplace. You seem fond of the political system in Belarus - a country described as dictatorial by most observers. > > In short, your political values are warped, and your conclusions are frequently wrong as a result. I cannot trust your judgment in this area. I fundamentally disagree with you, my friend. It is common for Westerners to conflate popular will with voting, but I’m afraid that the conclusion does not follow from the premises. Why would you possibly assume that allowing people to vote somehow means that the winner represents the true will of the voters? What about the generally poor voter turnout and the various restrictions that ultimately mean that, in almost all elections, the “winners” are chosen by less than 50% of the nation’s citizenry? What about the psychology of mob mentality? In essence, what makes you think that a vote’s outcome is representative of the rational will of the people? In a perfect world, I would be just as much of a democrat as you appear to be. I am a realist, however, and I know all too well how fallible and irrational herds of people tend to be. The fact that a single sheep heads toward Point X and the rest follow suit says nothing about their long-term plans, or even their mental capacity to make said plans. Human beings are a bit better, but not by much. What’s needed in both cases is wise guidance by a firm hand, rather than cowardly pandering to the mob mentality. > [@Chupacabras](#): > > If his soldiers are firing on peaceful protesters, he’s not exactly the hero you are talking about. But then again, I’m just another idiotic American who believes in the inalienable right to peacefully protest. Guess what – I also have nothing against peaceful protests. A little banner-waving, a bit of slogan-shouting… All good, clean fun, and a perfect way for the masses to let off some collective steam. That is not what we have here. Taking over neighborhoods at gunpoint hardly qualifies as a “peaceful protest.” Some (though not all) of the “protestors” have resorted to violence to advance their cause, and violence must be met with violence. I have nothing against peaceful protesters; I also have nothing against meeting armed rebels with a hail of bullets. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/30 "2011-02-23T21:39:14Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > [About as close as you’ll get.](http://www.zimbio.com/Muammar+Qadaffi/articles/Cud-KZGU6DN/AMAZONS+Five+Gaddafi+lipsticked+virgins+Bodyguards) Isn’t it cute how he has all these different outfits for them? Qadaffi has the biggest dress-up fetish of any modern dictator. I know the stereotype of the flamboyantly/weirdly dressed dictator, but Qadaffi must be the only one left alive. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/31 "2011-02-23T21:39:29Z")
In Libya as in every country that has seen protests this Arab Spring, it was government forces who started the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/32 "2011-02-23T21:39:37Z")
Don’t turn around, uh oh. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/33 "2011-02-23T21:40:15Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Clearly, this man is a hero – not just for Arabs, nor just for Muslims, and not even only for Africans. Don’t you think that what the **Libyans,** who know him better than anybody else, obviously think of Gaddafi (and “hero” ain’t the word) is indicative of something here?! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/34 "2011-02-23T21:43:00Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I know the stereotype of the flamboyantly/weirdly dressed dictator, but Qadaffi must be the only one left alive. Kim Jong Il. I don’t know if you’d say his clothes are flamboyant, but when he had more hair, he kept it in a pompadour. And his momma dresses him funny. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/35 "2011-02-23T21:43:27Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > I have nothing against peaceful protesters; I also have nothing against meeting armed rebels with a hail of bullets. Well sure. And I have nothing against meeting armed dictators and their goons with a hail of bullets. Sic semper tyrannis. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/36 "2011-02-23T21:45:14Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Let’s keep the comments about other posters out of Great debates. > > [/Modding] > > = = = > > Why? We allow humor in GD, too. Really? You’re going to call me out on poking fun at the OP while giving him the back-handed complement in the same post? :dubious: Also, could someone summarize the actual GD here? My American short attention span is having a bit of trouble getting past all the raping and ass-kissing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/37 "2011-02-23T21:49:17Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Unfortunately, somewhere along this path, the new Arab dawn veered completely off course. Instead of a glorious uprising against the parasitical monarchical oligarchs of Saudi Arabia, we got… bloody protests against Colonel Gaddafi?!? Am I the only one that finds this entirely revolting and unacceptable? Just out of curiosity, how would you react if this spread to Iran? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/38 "2011-02-23T21:50:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Also, could someone summarize the actual GD here? My American short attention span is having a bit of trouble getting past all the raping and ass-kissing. The OP seems to be saying that Gaddafi is admirable for his commitment to socialism, pan-Arabism, pan-Africanism, and not being in any sense an American puppet like Mubarak was. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Doctor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/39 "2011-02-23T21:51:08Z")
Thanks **Commissar**! That was the funniest OP I have read all week! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373/40 "2011-02-23T21:53:52Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > I’d be upset, were it anyone other than **Commissar** writing the OP. As it is, it’s kind of funny. > > On a slightly more substantive note, how do you ( **Commissar** ) reconcile your support of Qaddafi with his decision to hire foreign mercenaries to put down the revolt? Foreign mercenaries about as capitalist-tyranny-evil as you can get, really. At the outset, I must point out that you are perpetuating an unsubstantiated rumor, my friend. Nevertheless, let us assume that you are correct, and that foreign mercenaries have in fact been hired… I still fail to emphasize with your outrage. “It doesn’t matter whether a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.” - Deng Xiaoping This is no time to get one’s pants in a knot over a minor ideological issue. Not when human lives and the future of the entire Arab world are at stake, anyway. This is war, and the Colonel must win at (almost) any costs. Quite frankly, the ends are far more significant than the means. > [@spark240](#): > > In Libya as in every country that has seen protests this Arab Spring, it was government forces who started the shooting. Just as I discussed in the North Korea thread, I am very uncomfortable with the Western tendency to boldly make assertions that can not possibly be supported with any evidence available to them… Unless you happen to be an omnipresent and omniscient entity of a thoroughly divine nature, there is no way you can ever know what really happened in each case or in what order. Neither you nor I will ever, ever know which side fired first in any of these conflicts. That’s just the way the world works, my friend… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-arab-uprisings-have-gone-too-far/572373.md?page=3)