# "The Aristocrats" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 31, 2015, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244 "2015-05-31T10:02:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/21 "2015-05-31T17:56:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You hear talk sometimes about restrictions increasing creativity, the most famous being the Hays Code era of Hollywood post 1934, in which writers and directors had to use insinuation and misdirection to get across any notions of sex and violence (not that pre-1934 movies had much of either by modern standards). > > The Aristocrats joke comes from that same base. Almost no comedians could get away with “filth” of any kind on a public stage. The Aristocrats evolved as a means to showcase what couldn’t be said elsewhere. It was a simple competition to see who could be most inventive while using words and scenes that were deliberately beyond the pale. It’s not a joke with a punchline. The point was to make the other comedians go "how did he think of _that_?) (Only much later did it become he or she.) Creativity in the rawest, purest form was its own reward. > > They did much the same thing in the Friar’s Club roasts. The jokes were cheerfully obscene because it was insider stuff; even when they became charity events the audience were show business insiders. They sought to top each other, not by having the most original acts but by coming up with the best twist on old topics - Jack Benny’s stinginess, e.g. The Comedy Central roasts follow exactly in that tradition. They may be even more varied than the originals, from what I can tell. > > Gilbert Gottfried’s wonderfully twisted mind almost always destroys the competition at these roasts. He can take the oldest of jokes and put new spins on them inconceivable to anyone else. > > Think of it as a slam dunk contest rather than a basketball game. You’re taking one small aspect of the whole and making it an event to itself. Whether you want to see them during a game is irrelevant. The spectacle is seeing a man jump over a car - on his way to doing something else entirely. It’s all about the wow. Now this, _ **THIS** _ makes sense! With this context, and now the others contexts including Nemo’s, as I listen to Gottfried’s, it is funny! Thanks, Exapno. I can be a little slow sometimes, I know. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/22 "2015-05-31T18:01:46Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > the joke – known, I would think, to nearly everyone in the English-speaking world – whose punchline is “The Aristocrats”. I don’t know whether this is true nowadays, but it didn’t used to be. I don’t think I had heard of it before the movie about the joke came out. As **Little Nemo** says (see his and **Exapno** ’s excellent comments), this was a joke that was told to other comedians, not to the general public; it was a sort of “trade secret.” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/23 "2015-05-31T18:14:45Z")
…so would there eventually evolve a new “Aristocrats” based on new sets of things you can’t mention in the public act? Maybe renamed “Family Values” or “Progressives” or something equally out of sync? ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/24 "2015-05-31T18:27:58Z")
The Aristocrats joke is to me the comic equivalent of those “faster guitarist in the world” contests. It sounds fascinating to insiders as a way to show off your technique amongst other insiders. But to the general public it’s virtually useless. The Aristocrats is an unfunny joke that takes forever to build. Plus, since you will never actually perform the joke in public it doesn’t help improve your performances in any significant way. Just like guitarists who can play thousands of notes a minute, but can’t put that performance in any given song and aren’t good songwriters to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/25 "2015-05-31T18:57:22Z")
Thanks to all responders – altogether, highly illuminating. > [@kayaker](#): > > Watch the movie. I plan to do so, as soon as practically possible for me; just now, it isn’t. > [@marshmallow](#): > > “Aristocrats” implies refinement sure, but the stereotype of our social betters being bored degenerate pleasure seekers is ancient. Pretty much every age complains of their elite being decadent. I agree – I definitely perceived the joke from the first, as being a jibe about decadent aristocrats – as you remark, it is a pretty much proverbial thing that aristocratic and royal folk everywhere, have long been seen as tending toward degeneracy, vice, and debauchery; and as being very ready to indulge themselves in behaviour characteristic of same. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I don’t know whether this is true nowadays, but it didn’t used to be. I don’t think I had heard of it before the movie about the joke came out. As **Little Nemo** says (see his and **Exapno** ’s excellent comments), this was a joke that was told to other comedians, not to the general public; it was a sort of “trade secret.” This is instructive – I had wondered a bit, how it was that those who speak English had so very much and widely, taken the joke to their hearts: I never thought that the joke (regardless of quite what, if anything, one considered it to be about) was all _that_ funny. I’d figure, from this and other posts here, that it was the coming out of the film (2005, if I’m right) – plus consequently and / or independently, the joke’s being latched on to big-time across the Internet – which caused it to spread dramatically. I’m British, and first heard the joke fifty years ago from an American lad who was an exchange student at my school in England. With its long having been largely an “in” thing of the comic profession, I wonder a little, how it had come his way. Though he had an amazingly filthy mind, and considerable zest for sniffing out anything obscene… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/26 "2015-05-31T19:02:45Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > …so would there eventually evolve a new “Aristocrats” based on new sets of things you can’t mention in the public act? Maybe renamed “Family Values” or “Progressives” or something equally out of sync? Not really. Because the point isn’t to fix the joke. The point is to show that you can make people laugh even with a broken joke. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/27 "2015-05-31T19:46:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Exactly. It’s not that aristocrats are foul and degenerate, it’s that they are supposed to be dignified and refined. The joke would also work if they called themselves “The Saints.” Or the ‘Sophisticates’. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/28 "2015-05-31T22:06:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Of course, you’re not the intended audience. The joke is one that comics tell each other. The humor isn’t in the substance of the joke, it’s in the delivery. “74.” “You’re telling it wrong!” “74…bubbala.” “Ah! Now that’s comedy!” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/29 "2015-06-01T02:38:09Z")
Think of it as the humor equivalent of an [Escher painting.](http://www.wallpapername.com/thumbnails/detail/20121130/mc%20escher%20artwork%201600x1200%20wallpaper_www.wallpapername.com_3.jpg) The goal is not to make a working joke, but to make one that is elegantly incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/30 "2015-06-01T03:21:39Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > The Aristocrats joke is to me the comic equivalent of those “faster guitarist in the world” contests. It sounds fascinating to insiders as a way to show off your technique amongst other insiders. But to the general public it’s virtually useless. The Aristocrats is an unfunny joke that takes forever to build. Plus, since you will never actually perform the joke in public it doesn’t help improve your performances in any significant way. Just like guitarists who can play thousands of notes a minute, but can’t put that performance in any given song and aren’t good songwriters to begin with. Actually I see it more like long jazz jams, where you take a melody and improvise on it. Every musician will do it a slightly different way, The average listener will think “get to the next damn verse already” but those interested in they style will groove on the variations. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/31 "2015-06-01T04:16:07Z")
The joke can be turned around. Wendy Liebman told one of the funniest versions of the joke in the movie. Youtube link spoilered for language: [Aristocrats - Wendy Liebman - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfaKld5ahfw) ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/32 "2015-06-01T05:00:54Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > In a couple of recent threads in different sections, passing mention has been made of the joke – known, I would think, to nearly everyone in the English-speaking world – whose punchline is “The Aristocrats”. Not so. If it’s a thing, it’s an American thing. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/33 "2015-06-01T09:22:53Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > In a couple of recent threads in different sections, passing mention has been made of the joke – known, I would think, to nearly everyone in the English-speaking world – whose punchline is “The Aristocrats”. > [@Penfeather](#): > > Not so. If it’s a thing, it’s an American thing. Lots of people outside the US, though, nowadays eagerly read / watch on the Net, material chiefly of US origin (such as SDMB); and pass on to their non-Net-surfing associates, stuff that they particularly like – but, point taken. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/34 "2015-06-01T10:08:49Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > The joke can be turned around. Wendy Liebman told one of the funniest versions of the joke in the movie. > > Youtube link spoilered for language: > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfaKld5ahfw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfaKld5ahfw) Oddly, the one I laughed the most at in the movie was the mime version. It’s one thing to describe disgusting acts and something else entirely to watch someone act them out on his own. Which, I suppose, is the point - everyone knows the joke and anyone can spout endless filth, so making it unique and funny in the telling is the challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Chauve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5daacb/32.png) [@Chauve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chauve)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/35 "2015-06-01T10:39:20Z")
I hate that joke (The Aristocrats). It’s a bore. I also watched the movie, and I hated that as well. I sat there waiting for one telling of the joke to be funny, and it just got more tiresome with every telling. The joke is a “shaggy dog story,” and I hate “shaggy dog stories.” After they’re told, I just sit there pissed off at the teller and think to myself, “Well, that’s five minutes of my life wasted.” But I also realize that a lot of the problem is just me. They say “The Aristocrats” was Johnny Carson’s favorite joke. So I have to realize that I just have a bit of tin ear when it comes to “shaggy dog stories.” For anyone interested, Wikipedia has a full write-up on the joke under “The Aristocrats,” as well as a separate entry under “Shaggy dog story” explaining the overall category of those jokes and how they’re supposed to work. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/36 "2015-06-01T12:22:59Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Q: in any version of the joke does the presenter relate the performers speaking, or does the joke have to be entirely in third-person? Sarah Silverman’s version is that her family actually put on the act as described, and are the basis of the joke. Spoilered for language: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un-s2NbRBOY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un-s2NbRBOY) ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/37 "2015-06-01T12:24:16Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > …It strikes me as junior high school locker room “humor” - juvenile and gross for the sake of being gross. And, that’s precisely the point. The juvenile nature of the joke adds yet another humorous layer to the absurdest contrast of extremes. Not only is gross action being contrasted with sophistication; but juvenile humor is being told by professional comedians. It would be like finding Queen Elizabeth slumming with Borat. The joke never goes over nearly as funny if told by an ordinary guy, even if he has comic talent and is creatively gross. All else being equal, the bigger the star, the funnier the joke. Imagine Johnnie Carson (respected big star and with a reputation for working clean) doing the bit—I think that would be the funniest rendition of all, even if his delivery wasn’t the best. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/38 "2015-06-01T12:39:03Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Oddly, the one I laughed the most at in the movie was the mime version. It’s one thing to describe disgusting acts and something else entirely to watch someone act them out on his own. That was hilarious as well, easily my second favorite. His huge, insipid grin while acting out all these bits of the act was the icing on the cake. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/39 "2015-06-01T15:22:16Z")
The joke has multiple layers. On the simplest layer, the joke is in the punchline, in that the name of the act is incongruous with its nature. This is a very common template for jokes, with the punchline being something unexpected. In this case, it’s not a very funny joke on that level, but that level still has to exist to justify calling it a “joke”. The second level is, given this thing that qualifies as a “joke”, how dirty can we make it? Yes, a lot of the humor is of the sophomoric “He said a bad word!” variety, but in the right context, and with the right presentation, that can be funny. And there’s probably a third level, consisting of the contrast between the first and second levels. Just as it’s funny (at least potentially, to some degree) for an act’s name to be so different from the act itself, it’s also funny for a joke to derive its humor from an unexpected source: The joke is that the punchline isn’t the joke. Of course, there are countless variations on it. For instance, one of the performers in that movie told a fairly straightforward version of the body of the joke, but then when asked the name of the act, said it was “The Cocksucking Motherfuckers”. Now we’re back to the first level of the joke, except that the “obvious” punchline has become nonobvious and humorous again, by virtue of the long tradition of the joke. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244/40 "2015-06-01T16:16:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course, there are countless variations on it. For instance, one of the performers in that movie told a fairly straightforward version of the body of the joke, but then when asked the name of the act, said it was “The Cocksucking Motherfuckers”. Now we’re back to the first level of the joke, except that the “obvious” punchline has become nonobvious and humorous again, by virtue of the long tradition of the joke. That was Wendy Liebman and actually she told an inverted version of the joke–the story leading up to the punchline was just about a nice aristocratic family doing nice fancy things. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/yfaKld5ahfw/hqdefault.jpg "Aristocrats - Wendy Liebman") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfaKld5ahfw) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aristocrats/721244.md?page=3)