# The Ark of the Covenant **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 8, 1999, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281 "1999-12-08T03:53:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 1999, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/21 "1999-12-08T22:45:00Z")
How did a cherubim go from being a part-human, part-animal figure to a naked little boy flashing his heiny? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 1999, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/22 "1999-12-08T22:47:00Z")
Lumpy– Evolution, of course. Even the _Heavenly_ hosts aren’t excluded. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 1999, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/23 "1999-12-09T00:55:00Z")
## The word “angel” means “messenger”, but it’s a Greek word. The Hebrew word usually translated “angel” is “malak”. John W. Kennedy “Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.” – Charles Williams ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 1999, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/24 "1999-12-09T01:24:00Z")
Lumpy, those pesky little cupid-esque angels in Botticelli paintings incorrectly referred to as cherubs or cherubim, are called “putti” (plural of “putto”, Italian for I don’t remember what). * * * TT “Believe those who seek the truth. Doubt those who find it.” --Andre Gide ---
**Author:** ![Seraphim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Seraphim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seraphim)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 1999, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/25 "1999-12-09T04:33:00Z")
> [@](#): > > CKDextHavn, wise moderator, I tremble at the thought of contradicting you, but > weren’t seraphim the part-animal/part-human “angels” ? You rang? Me and my comrades are the epitome of angelic perfection, as as such the only ones qualified to talk to the Big Guy himself (believe me, you have no idea how cranky he can be). We are fully human in form, save for 3 sets of wings sticking out of our backs. This naturally gives us better flight capabilities than the lower archangels. But you wouldn’t BELIEVE how hard it is to find comfortable shirts. ---
**Author:** ![Jois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ea666f/32.png) [@Jois](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jois)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 1999, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/26 "1999-12-09T05:49:00Z")
Ha, Michael made it look pretty easy and he was a sharp dresser! ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 1999, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/27 "1999-12-09T14:18:00Z")
Arnold, no, I said cherubim and I meant cherubim. The Biblical text does not actually describe what a cherub looks like, but golden images of two cherubim were atop the Ark of the Covenant (which is how this topic wandered there), and seem to have one face and two wings. Ezekiel, however, mentions them as having four faces and four wings. The most common thought among scholars nowadays is that the word comes from _kuribu_, an Akkadian term that refers to the man-headed bull with eagle-wings that stood outside Mesopotamian temples. That would be consistent with the imagery in Ezekiel 1:6-11, and 10:14, for instance… and the lack of description in the Bible implies that it was well-known then what a cherub looked like. The notion of cherub as a beautiful winged child comes from the Renaissance, not from the bible. For instance, there’s a cherub with a flaming sword guarding the entrance to Eden; hard to think of a toddler in that role. A seraph is different, Arnold. I haven’t researched fully, by a long shot, but the Bibilical references to seraphim seem to be some sort of serpent (Deuteronomuy 8:15 and NUmbers 21:6) or winged serpent (Isaiah 6:2-6, and others.) Angelology during Middle Ages and later became one of those loony areas that people got all hung up about, describing the orders of angels and their ranks and powers and … kind of the Renaissance version of Dungeons and Dragons manuals, I guess. That doesn’t quite fit the model of the beautiful winged children that has come to be considered a cherub with ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 1999, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/28 "1999-12-09T15:24:00Z")
I caught the second half of a TV program on the Ark of the Covenant. The presenter claimed that the Ark used to be held in a church in Ethiopia. (They showed a clip of him visiting the church, and being refused admission). He also burbled something about the Knights Templar holding it in tunnels underneath Jerusalem. (No evidence was offered). Finally he said ‘The Ark is now in … Scotland!’ The camera showed a helicopter landing near a building, our ‘hero’ alighting and entering. We finish in a room with a rock floor. ‘The Ark is … buried 100 feet below this building!’ My mouth fell open as the program then just FINISHED with shots from the helicopter. No research, no evidence - just a travelogue. What on earth were the TV company paying for? I suppose this will now become an urban legend. * * * In the bathtub of history, the truth is harder to hold than the soap… (Pratchett) ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 1999, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/29 "1999-12-09T15:55:00Z")
They probably smuggled out of Ethiopia under their kilts. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 1999, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/30 "1999-12-09T16:07:00Z")
The TV show didn’t make up the Scottish story. I believe a Yahoo search on “+sinclair +grail” will turn up the information. Not saying I believe it – just that it exists. * * * John W. Kennedy “Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.” – Charles Williams ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 1999, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/31 "1999-12-09T19:03:00Z")
Thank you, **Seraphim** and **CKDextHavn** , for pointing out the error of my ways. I checked my book on angels at home, and indeed, the Seraphim are descibed as six-winged, and/or also as “dragon-like”. The cherubim are, as described by **CKD** , the angels similar to the Babylonian winged lions. * * * Quand les talons claquent, l’esprit se vide. Maréchal Lyautey ---
**Author:** ![Neobican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Neobican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neobican)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 1999, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/32 "1999-12-09T19:30:00Z")
What drives me nuts is I saw the program about this subject but after visiting the Discovery/TLC channels web sites, I could not find a reference! Yes, Ethiopia is one claim, but of course without proof it might also be in my attic. On that same program, the gentleman that was searching was contacted by some representative of some group, (knights of the templar maybe? I forget.) He had said that only they know of the arks whereabouts and that there were as many as 12 arks, I cannot be sure if they were all genuine or if he was talking about decoys built at the time. On a related program, it was suggested that the ark was nothing more than an ancient Leyden(sp?) jar, capable of storing an electric charge, giving it “godlike wrath” when discarged. The box was lined with metal plates, (blah blah) suffice it to say that the technology was known at the time (thanks Egyptains!) and materials were available. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 1999, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/33 "1999-12-10T01:27:00Z")
Wow… I was going to describe the whole Seraph and Cherub thing, and CKDex runs in with his bit. Bastard. Well, I’ll add what I can. As was mentioned, the word Cherub may of well been based on the Babylonian/Assyrian Ka-ri-bu which was a winged bull/human guardian found outside of temples and the like (as opposed to caribou which would be an artic climate deer). However, word Kerub itself means more of a “knowledge” thing than a guardian. It’s hardly a coincidence though that the angel set to guard the way back to the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden was a cherub (named… Jophiel). Exodus doesn’t do much to describe them in the Ark section, merely stating that they are to have wings spread towards each other and are to be facing each other. However, Ezekiel states that the cherubim he sees have, among other things, human hands, four faces (that of a human, eagle, lion and… erm… a cherub – now you see why this is so difficult), and are covered with eyes over their entire bodies and wings. As for the Seraphs, CKDex’s thing about the serpants was probably correct. Note that both Seraph and Serpant start with _ser_, meaning “celestial being”, “guardian” and things of that sort. Satan, once a seraph, takes on the form of a serpant in both Genesis (if that _was_ Satan… Genesis doesn’t really say) and in Revelation. Once again, seraphs are described as six winged beings with human features, although they are not entirely human in shape. Other six winged divine creatures may be found in Revelation, but if they are seraphim, cherubim or a class unto themselves is uncertain. In any event, the seraphim are commonly identified with the firey love of God, sunlight, divine light and that sort of thing. Ok… sorry to have hijacked. It’s just so rarely that I get to chat about my hobbies. * * * “I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn’t.” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 1999, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/34 "1999-12-10T01:29:00Z")
Oh… I should mention that despite all the above, it’s assumed that angels can change their forms to suit their needs as they attend to their duties. When their form is being discussed, it’s their “true” form, or that which they assume while in the presence of God. * * * “I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn’t.” ---
**Author:** ![mipsman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mipsman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipsman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 1999, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/35 "1999-12-10T03:43:00Z")
The archive story references 2 Maccabees about the Ark having been hidden by priests. I left my Bible in my other other suit but I remember reading some religous text maybe 20 years ago in which the priest/prophet (I thought it was Jeremiah but my Biblical ignorance is sinful) had to hide the Ark and when he went back he could not find the place he where he hid it. He said that God must have wanted it to stay hidden. Is that the story in 2 Maccabees? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 1999, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/36 "1999-12-10T04:15:00Z")
Carl Sagan had a good line about cherubim in “The Dragons of Eden,” which related to the Biblical account of Adam and Eve’s expulsion. He noted that they were prevented from returning by cherubim, and _a_ flaming sword. “Cherubim” is plural. “Flaming sword” is singular. His conclusion: “Presumably, flaming swords were in short supply.” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 1999, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/37 "1999-12-10T04:21:00Z")
My guess is either (A) Only one cherub had a flaming sword (usually that cherub is Jophiel who thusly has a flaming sword as his symbol) (B) The flaming sword flashing back and forth was a semi-sentient and mobile object in of itself. * * * “I guess one person can make a difference, although most of the time they probably shouldn’t.” ---
**Author:** ![Seraphim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Seraphim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seraphim)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 1999, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/38 "1999-12-10T04:56:00Z")
What the heck: Here’s the entire angelic rundown. Angels–Celestial peons, basically. Great for gaurd duty, and the ones sent to do the dirty work on terra firma. When you die, there’s a good chance you’ll be drafted into their ranks. Hey, no one said heaven was going to be all fun and games. Archangels–In charge of the angels, they’re the couriers of important news. Whatever you do, don’t piss off these guys, unless you like doing push-ups for eternity. Principalities–Officially, they’re the “protectors of nations and rulers,” but basically they’re middle men in the white collar sector (but don’t tell them I told). Powers–The ones that maintain balance within the universe, you wouldn’t believe how good their high-wire act is. Virtues–Shining examples of bravery and courage, most find their holier-than-thou attitude to much to bear. Thrones–Glorified tax-drivers, these drive chariots for the Big Guy. They’re also the ones in charge with contemplating justice, so don’t even THINK of serving them the smallest piece of pie. Cherubim–Winged half animal/human hybrids. Resist the temptation to go “Fetch the stick, boy, fetch the stick!” Seraphim–Top of the line, baby. ---
**Author:** ![Seraphim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Seraphim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seraphim)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 1999, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/39 "1999-12-10T04:59:00Z")
Oops, forgot one: Dominions–Sword-bearers, those in the upper angelic echelons (Thrones or higher) can count on these for their secretarial work. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 1999, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281/40 "1999-12-10T05:07:00Z")
According to the Talmud, The Ark and several other particularly holy items were hidden by one of the later Kings of Judah prior to the Babylonian conquest. Take it for what you think it’s worth. I’ll try to look it up and post a more detailed version of the above Saturday night. Chaim Mattis Keller [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ark-of-the-covenant/5281.md?page=3)