# The Army Sells The Big Red One to Sears **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 13, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474 "2008-09-13T20:04:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/41 "2008-09-14T04:43:00Z")
> [@Stringer](#): > > I love how it’s soooooo important to you to have murder be heroic, killing them before they kill you! On their soil! That’s rich. It’s not important, sir, to “murder” anyone. I nor any sane, rational soldier wants to have to pull a trigger to kill someone. But yet, that’s what part of your training is, depending on your specific job, is to train to kill. Yep, not much getting around that one. But there’s a difference between serving with honor and being a cold-blooded killer that gets his or her rocks off killing people. The many fine soldiers I served with were of the mindset that you train to kill, hoping you never have to. Let’s go a step further…how about the taking of prisoners? Which military right now on the face of this earth do you think treats their prisoners the best and always has? Spare me the Guantanomo argument, please. Hmmmmm… I guess you don’t get the concept of what a military is or does. I never once proclaimed that we should go around the globe killing people, let alone enjoying it or “doing it for the money”. Let me tell you pal, the money isn’t that great unless you achieve a high-ranking officer position. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. We are all a bunch of hired killers, do I have you right? ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/42 "2008-09-14T04:50:11Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > It’s not important, sir, to “murder” anyone. I nor any sane, rational soldier wants to have to pull a trigger to kill someone. I know you think murder and an “acceptable casualty in a military action” are different, but that’s semantics. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > But there’s a difference between serving with honor and being a cold-blooded killer that gets his or her rocks off killing people. Semantically. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Let’s go a step further…how about the taking of prisoners? Which military right now on the face of this earth do you think treats their prisoners the best and always has? Spare me the Guantanomo argument, please. Spare you the Guantanomo argument? Now THAT’S rich. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I guess you don’t get the concept of what a military is or does. I never once proclaimed that we should go around the globe killing people, let alone enjoying it or “doing it for the money”. > > Let me tell you pal, the money isn’t that great unless you achieve a high-ranking officer position. > > I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. We are all a bunch of hired killers, do I have you right? You’ve bought into the propaganda that the military is heroic, is service to your country, and all that laughable nonsense. I realize that you don’t consider yourself to be either a murderer yourself (if you killed someone in combat), or an accessory to murder (if you simply volunteered to be the enforcement arm of the United States Government.) That doesn’t mean you aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/43 "2008-09-14T04:52:17Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > **Veb**! You’re a “you guys”! Congratulations! Of course that includes a set of cast iron balls, but she already had them. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I don’t think the kids of today ever watched the movie with Luke Skywalker… Ignore that Hamill was in it. It was a Lee Marvin movie and that’s all one needs to know to enjoy it. Kids, I never served in the Army and am one of those stinking liberals so I, obviously, hate the military. :rolleyes: What I am is a lowly tech who worked at one time on the First Division’s museum at Col Robert McCormick’s Cantigny estate. I have an idea of how the guys who served with the Big Red One think and I suspect some will find this idea loathsome while others appreciate it as a recruiting tool. Personally, I’d’ve gone with the 101st Airborne’s patch, which is wicked cool. C’mon, “Big Red One” versus “Screaming Eagles?” Can there be any argument? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/44 "2008-09-14T04:58:40Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Personally, I’d’ve gone with the 101st Airborne’s patch, which is wicked cool. C’mon, “Big Red One” versus “Screaming Eagles?” Can there be any argument? 😉 I think maybe this is just a start. I’d expect more patches to follow if this is successful. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/45 "2008-09-14T05:05:09Z")
> [@Stringer](#): > > You’ve bought into the propaganda that the military is heroic, is service to your country, and all that laughable nonsense. Hmmmm… well there _is_ plenty of laughable nonsense and the heroism is sparatic at best… but how can you claim that “military service =/= service to your country”? You could aruge that it isn’t “selfless service” as it is purported to be. But how on earth is it not service to your country? ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/46 "2008-09-14T05:07:01Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Hmmmm… well there _is_ plenty of laughable nonsense and the heroism is sparatic at best… but how can you claim that “military service =/= service to your country”? > You could aruge that it isn’t “selfless service” as it is purported to be. But how on earth is it not service to your country? It’s service to your government. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/47 "2008-09-14T05:11:37Z")
> [@Stringer](#): > > It’s service to your government. Wow. Talk about semantics. ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/48 "2008-09-14T05:12:49Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Wow. Talk about semantics. You take orders from your country then? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/49 "2008-09-14T05:17:24Z")
> [@Stringer](#): > > You take orders from your country then? Um, speaking as a commie, liberal, scumbag, well, YEAH! That’s how a representative democracy works. You know, we, the people, elect the representatives, including the president, and they do what they believe is our collective will. That can be why it takes so long to steer the Ship of State, but that’s how the system works. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/50 "2008-09-14T05:26:22Z")
> [@Stringer](#): > > You take orders from your country then? Nope. But “taking orders” isn’t the same as “serving” anyway. I dont “serve” the officers appointed over me. They don’t “serve” the officers appointed over them. We obey their orders. And they obey orders all the way up to and including the POTUS. We don’t _serve_ the President, his office, or any branch of the government any more than we _serve_ our local commanders. We obey his commands in order to serve the country in a manner which he sees fit. It’s up to the voters to ensure he utilizes the military to serve them in the manner which _they_ see fit. Don’t want the military to engage in frivelous wars? Then don’t reelect a President running on a platform of “more war”. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/51 "2008-09-14T05:29:41Z")
[QUOTE=Stringer] You’ve bought into the propaganda that the military is heroic, is service to your country, and all that laughable nonsense. I realize that you don’t consider yourself to be either a murderer yourself (if you killed someone in combat), or an accessory to murder (if you simply volunteered to be the enforcement arm of the United States Government.) That doesn’t mean you aren’t. [/QUOTE] You’ve bought into the nonsense that you, as a citizen of this republic, aren’t responsible for the government that sends soldiers to war. Serving soldiers don’t choose to go to war. Groups of uniformed folks don’t just toss back a few too many, whip themselves into a killing frenzy and decide fuck it, know what’d be _really_ great? Let’s _invade_ someplace! Hey, a desert! Hotter ‘n hell, bugs the size of Ford Escorts and after some bitchin’ fire fights, kick back in the rockin’ Islamic social scene! Soldiers are _sent_–the military is used by the government elected into power by citizens, you and me. Guantanamo? Deaths in Iraq, American and Iraqi? On us, baby. You might not accept that you’re responsible but that doesn’t mean you aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/52 "2008-09-14T05:33:27Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > You’ve bought into the nonsense that you, as a citizen of this republic, aren’t responsible for the government that sends soldiers to war. Serving soldiers don’t choose to go to war. Groups of uniformed folks don’t just toss back a few too many, whip themselves into a killing frenzy and decide fuck it, know what’d be _really_ great? Let’s _invade_ someplace! Hey, a desert! Hotter ‘n hell, bugs the size of Ford Escorts and after some bitchin’ fire fights, kick back in the rockin’ Islamic social scene! > > Soldiers are _sent_–the military is used by the government elected into power by citizens, you and me. > > Guantanamo? Deaths in Iraq, American and Iraqi? On us, baby. You might not accept that you’re responsible but that doesn’t mean you aren’t. I just showed up, YOU people volunteered. Had you not seen the track record of the U.S. military in the last 60 years? If you volunteered, you are responsible. I can’t control who becomes president, but you can control if you yourself are sent overseas to murder people. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/53 "2008-09-14T05:37:09Z")
Congratulations on a successful hijack, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/54 "2008-09-14T05:44:29Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Congratulations on a successful hijack, by the way. Congratulations on volunteering to be an accessory to murder, by the way. I bet you sleep like a baby. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/55 "2008-09-14T05:48:43Z")
> [@Stringer](#): > > Congratulations on volunteering to be an accessory to murder, by the way. I bet you sleep like a baby. Great. But what does that have to do with the Army leasing out unit insignia for commericial enterprise?? Grow the fuck up. If you want to start a DIFFERENT thread about how many people I’ve killed or just how much I give a shit, then go ahead. Have some respect for people’s threads, though. Geez. ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/56 "2008-09-14T05:50:17Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Great. But what does that have to do with the Army leasing out unit insignia for commericial enterprise?? Grow the fuck up. > If you want to start a DIFFERENT thread about how many people I’ve killed or just how much I give a shit, then go ahead. Have some respect for people’s threads, though. Geez. Fine, I’ll bow out of this thread, sorry **RTFirefly**. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/57 "2008-09-14T05:53:47Z")
[QUOTE=Stringer] I just showed up, YOU people volunteered. Had you not seen the track record of the U.S. military in the last 60 years? If you volunteered, you are responsible. I can’t control who becomes president, but you can control if you yourself are sent overseas to murder people. [/QUOTE] Does this make sense to anybody else? Because I’ve read it several times and it’s still not working. Could be political-bile overload though. You…showed up? Where? The Dope? The US? Earth? You can’t vote? You are limited to making your opinions known on message boards? Back to reality… The thing about licensing the logos is really interesting. So was the stuff **Bear Nenno** linked to in the dead-deer-and-ammo sites. Hoohah shirts. Still wrapping my brain around that. The whole thing still feels _off_ to me but hey, if there’s some benefit to service folks… ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/58 "2008-09-14T05:57:46Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Does this make sense to anybody else? Because I’ve read it several times and it’s still not working. Could be political-bile overload though. > > You…showed up? Where? The Dope? The US? Earth? > > You can’t vote? You are limited to making your opinions known on message boards? > > Back to reality… > The thing about licensing the logos is really interesting. So was the stuff **Bear Nenno** linked to in the dead-deer-and-ammo sites. Hoohah shirts. Still wrapping my brain around that. The whole thing still feels _off_ to me but hey, if there’s some benefit to service folks… I’m not continuing in this thread, pit me if you want to discuss it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/59 "2008-09-14T05:58:34Z")
**Veb** , he mostly agrees with the concept of the OP. The rest is that bullshit we have to put up with from the crazies on the FAR left. Ignore it, like an honest conservative would ignore Bill O’Reilly. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474/60 "2008-09-14T06:10:39Z")
[QUOTE=Stringer] I’m not continuing in this thread, pit me if you want to discuss it. [/QUOTE] Soooo don’t. Don’t want to be within miles of this stinker. Appreciate the translation, **dropzone** , and apologies for rabbiting after the hijack, **Bear\_Nenno**. HooAH shirts. Better than “hoohah shirts” which would imply…Never mind. Mental whiplash is never pretty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-army-sells-the-big-red-one-to-sears/463474.md?page=4)