# The Artist - Black & White Silent Film **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 12, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943 "2011-12-12T19:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/41 "2012-02-06T14:13:48Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Whoever said those things would happen? According to the article, Hazanavicius just said he hoped that The Artist would be the **first of many** films to revisit the silent era. > > “Many” is not most or a majority or even necessarily a large amount, just more than now, and since there’s only one now, many might be 3-4 a year. There’s nothing wrong with that. Some will be worth seeing, some won’t. Some filmmakers might find a whole new cinematic language to use via the silent treatment. It’s yet another tool. Most won’t use it, just as most don’t/won’t use 3D. Perhaps we’ll get one or two truly great movies in the next decade or so. Perhaps not. But no one, NO ONE, not even Hazanavicius thinks silent films will become mainstream or commonplace. Eve is, as always, right. > > I saw The Artist again last night, an Oscar nightish double-feature with the great [A Separation](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1832382/) (which should be nominated for Best Picture itself). It held up for me and was just as good, if not slightly better, than the first time I saw it. It’s a frothy little thing, but oh so wonderful. I may have misunderstood Hazanaicius but notice that I agreed with **Eve** , and agree with you. Not sure why you’re scolding me. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/42 "2012-02-07T20:31:22Z")
Spare me, **Equipoise**. This is like movie geek porn. (Hmm…) ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/43 "2012-02-07T20:57:01Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Spare me, **Equipoise**. This is like movie geek porn. (Hmm…) That’s the best \*kind \*of porn! ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/44 "2012-02-08T22:47:29Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Spare me, **Equipoise**. This is like movie geek porn. (Hmm…) It may be cinephile porn, but that’s very different than awards bait. How many films about the movie industry have won Best Picture in the past? Zero. How many comedies from a foreign country have won Best Picture in the last half-century? One. How many B&W movies have won Best Picture in the last half-century? One. She’s right–whatever “formula” might exist that’s calculated specifically to impress the most Academy voters, _The Artist_ is unquestionably not it. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/45 "2012-02-09T02:03:45Z")
Thanks MovieMogul. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/46 "2012-02-09T08:18:50Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > Just saw it today, and my verdict would be very enjoyable but not quite Oscar worthy. The main flaw is that the plot is a little too thin and predictable to make it a fully moving experience. A good subplot would have both made it feel less padded and broadened the scope of the film. Plus I wish they’d have put a lot more dialogue cards in the first half hour; it was hard to follow when you had to wait four minutes for dialogue. I saw it today, and it was great. A fair number of people in the theater for a 1:45 pm Wednesday showing. Now, I saw **Wings** last weekend in the new restoration, which is fantastic. Amazingly it came right away from Netflix. Watching it, I thought that we’d be better off with more silent movies, since the paucity of titles forces you to pay attention to how the characters are acting and emoting instead of listen to it being explained to you. In any case, the number of titles matched those of Wings quite well. I don’t think the success of this movie will cause people to make more of them, but if it gets people to watch more silent movies I’d be quite satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![stefani88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@stefani88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stefani88)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/47 "2012-02-09T09:16:28Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > As I’ve said in other threads, they’ve been positioning The Artist for Awards season since Cannes in May. It’s played film festivals and is in its qualifying run for Oscar consideration (films have to play at least one week in NY & LA before the end of the year to be nominated). It’ll be very slowly rolling out around the rest of the country over the next few weeks. Since it’s such a hard film to market the PTB are counting on awards attention to spread the word. Once it gets multiple nominations from the Golden Globes, the Screen Actors Guild and finally, Oscars, it’ll be out there. Ideally they want the movie to still be playing in theaters around the time of the Oscars, at the end of February. This is the way to do it. > > I can’t wait to see it myself. It looks fun and unique and moving, plus I’ve been a fan of Jean Dujardin for a few years now. Those who like him should seek out his “OSS” films where he plays a bumbling, insensitive agent who gets into all kinds of trouble. Think James Bond crossed with Inspector Clouseau (forgive my spelling, I’m typing w one finger on my iPhone at a McDonalds using their wifi) and others I can’t think ofnow. He’s suave and confident and self-centered and totally clueless. You want to slap him, often, but you kinda like him too. The actor pulls it off. I’m thrilled he’s getting attention. He’ll charm the pants off of all the entertainment reporters & voters once campaigning kicks into high gear. Thanks you for sharing * * * [Watch Red Tails Online for Free](http://fullmoviesonlinefree.net/) ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/48 "2012-02-09T13:18:49Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > It may be cinephile porn, but that’s very different than awards bait. > > … > > She’s right–whatever “formula” might exist that’s calculated specifically to impress the most Academy voters, _The Artist_ is unquestionably not it. I agree, it’s not a film that tries to be “worthy”. I’ll also add, it’s not necessary to have much familiarity with the history of cinema to enjoy it. I know little about the silent era and the transition to talkies, and I’ve never watched a silent film all the way through before. Metropolis was on my LoveFilm (DVD rental by post) queue for a long time, but they never delivered it before I closed my account. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/49 "2012-02-09T14:02:50Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > [T]hey’ve been positioning The Artist for Awards season since Cannes in May. It’s played film festivals and is in its qualifying run for Oscar consideration (films have to play at least one week in NY & LA before the end of the year to be nominated)… Since it’s such a hard film to market the PTB are counting on awards attention to spread the word. Once it gets multiple nominations from the Golden Globes, the Screen Actors Guild and finally, Oscars, it’ll be out there. Ideally they want the movie to still be playing in theaters around the time of the Oscars, at the end of February. This is the way to do it. > [@Equipoise](#): > > **The Artist** is as far away from “Oscar bait” (as you “understand” the term) as you could possibly get. The Human Centipede might be less “Oscar baity” but not by much. > > This thing premiered in **MAY of _2011_** and was not seen as any kind of an Awards contender. Quoted for contrast. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/50 "2012-02-09T17:05:39Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I don’t think that was intended at all: _Jean Dujardin is French_. And foreign accents didn’t hurt Garbo, Dietrich, Chevalier, etc. I think it’s just that–as with many silent stars–they didn’t like talkies. It was new and scary and a whole new art form, and many of them loved acting in silents; it was a whole different genre. Clara Bow said that talkies were just no fun: learn your lines, hit your marks. No inspiration, no improvisation, no give and take with the director. I can easily see why Valentin would dread the coming of sound. And I think, as we saw from that one imaginary sequence with those disembodied gabbling mouths, that Valentin was also rather revolted and bored by the visual prospect of all that perpetual chin-wagging. We’re so used to it now that we tend not to notice it, but it’s true, when you’re watching a dialogue-heavy talking film you’re seeing a lot of lips and teeth. I don’t find it implausible that a silent-film star might have considered that a step backward for the cinematic art. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/51 "2012-02-11T05:43:14Z")
I saw it tonight at a sold out showing at the Angelika and I loved it. I think it’s probably my favorite film of the past year and I hope it wins both Best Picture & Best Actor. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/52 "2012-02-12T02:06:51Z")
I wasn’t too terribly interested in seeing the movie, until I saw the [Funny or Die clip](http://jezebel.com/5883757/the-artists-jean-dujardin-to-be-cast-as-villain-in-every-movie) of Jean Dujardin auditioning for every villain role in upcoming movies. After seeing that, I figured even if I didn’t like the movie I could enjoy his charming handsomeness and the cute dog. I ended up really liking the movie. It’s playing at several theaters here, but I went to the arthouse theater so that I wouldn’t be distracted by people talking or by noise from another movie bleeding through. It was predictable but it wasn’t trying to be innovative and unpredictable so that didn’t bother me. I thought it was a pretty fun little movie. ---
**Author:** ![TATG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/50afbb/32.png) [@TATG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TATG)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/53 "2012-02-12T18:53:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I don’t find it implausible that a silent-film star might have considered that a step backward for the cinematic art. As per the title, and, if I am not mistaken, as per a newspaper that was shown in the movie, which said something to the effect of “Valentin considers himself an arist” (and that is why no talkies). The stubornness in Valentin’s rejection of talkies is reflected in his rejection of Peppy Miller’s charity. [QUOTE=mutantmoose] I think the last minute was the reason why he didn’t want to do talkies. I take on board what Eve said above about the silent actors not wanting to do talkies but it was just the way they revealed it right at the end. Came as a surprise to me although I admit I should have seen it coming given as I knew it was a French film and that he is a French actor. [/QUOTE] The role I took the accent to be playing was just that of comic surprise. If I were to read into it I would guess it is about the surprise that talkies bring in general; that the sound adds something in a way you don’t expect. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/54 "2012-02-12T21:49:14Z")
I see The Artist has won [7 awards](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-16991077) at the BAFTAS, including best film, best director and best actor. Well deserved in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/55 "2012-02-13T04:24:23Z")
Yes, congratulations for the BAFTAS wins. > [@Spoke](#): > > Quoted for contrast. “positioning The Artist for Awards season” does not mean that the movie is “Oscar bait.” Lots of movies are positioned for awards season to capitalize on the publicity that nominations garner, that doesn’t make them “Oscar bait.” You left out the line “Harvey Weinstein had to be forced into pushing it for awards season, probably the first time that’s ever happened to him” but I can’t find a specific cite. I know that the film wasn’t even set for competition at Cannes (though it was scheduled to play there) until a week before the festival. Weinstein believed in the movie, was passionate about the movie, but I don’t think he ever saw it as a Best Picture contender. Maybe Best Actor, after Jean Dujardin’s Cannes Best Actor win, and maybe some awards such as Art Direction and Cinematography, but I don’t think Harvey ever expected f10 nominations. Positioning for Awards season to get publicity was important considering what an unlikely and hard-to-market movie The Artist is. It was after the Telluride and Toronto (and other) film festivals that it really began looking like a contender. The same thing with Slumdog Millionaire. If someone called that movie “Oscar bait” I’d laugh just as hard. I stand by what I said about it not being Oscar bait, but if it makes you feel better to think of a low-budget ($15 million), silent, black and white, French film as such, go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/56 "2012-02-13T09:53:33Z")
That was my thought when I saw Spoke had quoted those two posts together. How a film is conceived and how it is marketed can be two separate things. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/57 "2012-02-23T06:01:08Z")
I saw it tonight and loved it. I don’t have the intense background in the eras portrayed that other posters do, so I didn’t pick up on the tidbits that were off. But, in general it really felt like the movie was made 80 years ago. And, not a movie made now about times that were 80 years ago. They didn’t do much, if anything, wrong. I loved it from beginning to end. Oh. the “BANG” was just cruel. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/58 "2012-02-23T13:47:30Z")
David Denby has a long piece in this week’s _New Yorker_ about how _The Artist_ sucks, Jean Dujardin sucks, John Gilbert sucked, and everyone who is not Louise Brooks can just go \*fuck \*themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/59 "2012-02-23T15:10:32Z")
Well, David Denby, aged 68-69 according to wikipedia, can just go jump off a cliff and fuck himself on the way down. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943/60 "2012-02-23T15:25:19Z")
We saw this last night. Compared to the dreck that is being offered up as Oscar contenders, this film stands out as the only one deserving of Best Picture. Jean Dujardin was brilliant; his ability to transform his face and convincingly convey deep emotion with a glance is astounding. Berenice Bejo was also outstanding. It’s no small feat to make a silent film that can hold a modern audience’s attention for 90 minutes. The only downside to the evening were the wrinkle farms sitting behind us who couldn’t shut the fuck up during the film. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-black-white-silent-film/605943.md?page=4)