# The artist is WRONG about his own work. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 12, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900 "2014-07-12T00:07:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/61 "2014-07-13T16:16:28Z")
Isn’t **Ode to Billie Joe** the classic example of this genre? Despite Bobbie Gentry being on record many times saying that what Billie Joe threw off the Tallahatchie Bridge was a both a [MacGuffin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin) and _completely irrelevant to the point of the song_, people still insist on making up their own stories and then insisting that their story is the “real” explanation and that Bobbie G is lying about there not actually being one. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/62 "2014-07-13T16:19:07Z")
I reAd a meat article awhile back about a kid some time ago who wrote famous authors and asked hem if the intended the deeper meanings that others had found in their books. I think on Vonnegut wrote him back. He petty much said “hell no”. Anyone find it? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/63 "2014-07-13T16:20:56Z")
“Sometimes a hat is just a hat.” ---
**Author:** ![mage-girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@mage-girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mage-girl)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/64 "2014-07-13T16:29:02Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I have seen it argued here on this very board that Ridley Scott doesn’t know what he’s talking about when it comes to Blade Runner and Harrison Ford is not a replicant. Me, I don’t agree with Guillermo del Torro. The magic in Pan’s Labyrinth is not real. It’s Ofelia’s coping mechanism and del Torro is mistaken. The Beatles are totally either lying or wrong. Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds is about a drug trip. > > How 'bout you. Do you disagree with an artist’s interpretation of his own work? When I voiced a similar opinion to my friends regarding _Pan’s Labyrinth_, my friends jumped all over me. :eek: I think they really wanted some kind of happy ending after all that trauma. However, if they’d watched _The Orphanage_ (exec. produced by del Toro) they would know that things do not always end happily in his movies… I’m surprised that the ending for _Pacific Rim_ was so upbeat, actually (even though some characters did die). ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/65 "2014-07-13T16:35:20Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > Jeff Koons has repeatedly said his art isn’t making any underlying statements about anything… I thought the overlying statement he made with his works with Cicciolina was something about Art vs Porn, but his underlying statement was that he had a big dick and a hot, porn star wife. My wife believes that Freud ruined everything by making people too self-conscious about how people interpret their work. Not like the glory days before Freud, when people unconsciously threw the door wide on their subconciousness. Daddy issues much, Louisa May Alcott? However, working toward a deadline can push ones super-ego aside and allow the id to fly free. More fun for the interpreter and more embarrassed and BS denials for the creator. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/66 "2014-07-13T16:38:06Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Tolkien didn’t deny that WWI was an influence on LotR, he just said that it wasn’t an allegory (using as a professor would, the technical meaning of the word), and wasn’t particularly influenced by WWII. I have to admit, I don’t actually know the difference between the technical meaning and the common meaning of “allegory.” > [@delphica](#): > > Jeff Koons has repeatedly said his art isn’t making any underlying statements about anything, but I hold fast to the belief that his work is both a critical (in the critical thinking sense) and affirmative statement about the aesthetic significance embodied in kitsch and the commoditization of high art. Further, I believe that his statements that his art isn’t making any statement is part of the statement (in sort of a gloriously recursive dialogue about art in the age of mechanical reproduction). > > A++ for the current retrospective at the Whitney, by the way. I would tend to believe Jeff Koons when he says that there are no underlying statements in his work. There aren’t any superficial statements either. Or any other kinds of statements. He’s simply a thieving huckster with a talent for self-promotion. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/67 "2014-07-13T16:38:46Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > I don’t know… there’s this artist by the name of Rorschach who did incredibly accurate ink blot drawings of me being castrated by my mother. “Yeah, doc, but you’re the one showing me all the dirty pictures!” ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/68 "2014-07-13T16:50:22Z")
> [@mage-girl](#): > > When I voiced a similar opinion to my friends regarding _Pan’s Labyrinth_, my friends jumped all over me. :eek: I think they really wanted some kind of happy ending after all that trauma. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but is there a reason for believing Pan’s Labyrinth to be a psychological drama rather than a fantasy genre film? If there was a significant hint dropped by the director, I didn’t catch it. If there’s no major hint, and if the director says he intended it as a fantasy film, then viewing the girl’s adventures as coping strategies seems a bit odd. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/69 "2014-07-13T16:55:48Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Apart from the fact that “This song has strange lyrics - it _must_ be about/the product of drugs” is such a boring observation to make, why would songwriters lie about the meaning of their songs? Was John Lennon afraid people might somehow get the impression he had dabbled in drug usage? Did he think “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds” was such a cunningly-concealed reference that he could fool everyone, failing to consider those few geniuses who could crack the code and spend the next 50 years acting like they alone had come up with this entirely untiresome theory? I’m pretty confident that the majority of people who claim that the song is about an LSD trip have never taken LSD. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/70 "2014-07-13T17:19:11Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > I’m pretty confident that the majority of people who claim that the song is about an LSD trip have never taken LSD. You found me out. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/71 "2014-07-13T17:23:02Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > I’m pretty confident that the majority of people who claim that the song is about an LSD trip have never taken LSD. Yeah, it’s more like an opium dream, ala Kublai Khan. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/72 "2014-07-13T17:31:03Z")
In the commentary in the film _Fantasia_ preceding “The Nutcracker Suite” it is stated that “it’s amazing how often a creator is wrong about his work”, leading into Tchaikovsky _hating_ “The Nutcracker”. I’m not sure how true that is, but certainly ba lot of authors have been annoyed with or disparaging of some of their most popular works, often precisely because they _were_ popular. Arthur Conan Doyle pretty famously disliked Sherlock Holmes, and thought it was keeping people away from what he thought was his better and more important work, like _The White Company_. He even killed Holmes off, with great relish. But he had to bring him back, and continued writing his asdventures for years. It wasn’t just the cash, I’m sure – Doyle had other successful works. He genuinely seemed to feel an obligation to keep writying the stuff in answer to public expectation (kinda like George R. R. Martin now,. with _Game of THrones_) Similarly, Gellett Burgess hated his poem “THe Purple Cow”, to the point of writing hs own poetic put-down of it. Isaac Asimov reputedly hated being told that _Nightfall_ was his best work. Alec Guiness came to loathe Obi-Wan Kenobi. I can understand exasperation with being pigeon-holed, but when that turns to disparagement of one’s own work, the artist is certainly wrong – there’s a reason people like it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/73 "2014-07-13T17:44:58Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Isaac Asimov reputedly hated being told that _Nightfall_ was his best work. Asimov was proud of the fame of the story - he was irritated (as I recall) that people praised the paragraph that Campbell added to the story (the paragraph that mentions Earth) as an example of Asimov’s lyrical ability. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/74 "2014-07-13T17:51:49Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Asimov was proud of the fame of the story - he was irritated (as I recall) that people praised the paragraph that Campbell added to the story (the paragraph that mentions Earth) as an example of Asimov’s lyrical ability. He was proud of the fame, but I understand he was miffed that people were calling something he wrote as a teenager “his best work” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/75 "2014-07-13T17:52:35Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > He was proud of the fame, but I understand he was miffed that people were calling something he wrote as a teenager “his best work” Yeah, that too. ETA: Not quite a teenager - “Nightfall” was published when he was 21. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/76 "2014-07-13T17:53:30Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Yeah, it’s more like an opium dream, ala Kublai Khan. [Exhibit A](http://www.yarnivore.com/francis/Holy_Tango.htm). (Scroll down to “MULTICOLORED ARGYLE SEA.”) ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/77 "2014-07-13T18:02:43Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > And frequently Dylan will ask, “That’s one of MY songs?” The musician will respond incredulously, “Well, YEAH, it’s one of your songs! It’s, like, the best song you ever wrote.” Dylan will then ask, “How does it go?” And then Bob will have to re-learn a song he himself wrote that he’d completely forgotten. Reminds me of this exchange in Dylan’s 1969 Rolling Stone interview: > [@](#): > > RS: The purpose of any interview is to let the person who’s being interviewed unload his head. > > BD: Well, that’s what I’m doing. > > RS: And trying to draw that out is . . . > > BD: Boy, that’s a good . . . that’d be a great title for a song. “Unload my head. Going down to the store . . . going down to the corner to unload my head.” I’m gonna write that up when I get back [laughter], “Going to Tallahassee to unload my head.” I don’t think Dylan is being sly; he has genuinely forgotten that he already used that phrase in “From a Buick 6” (“I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head”). The interviewer was presumably quoting him in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/78 "2014-07-13T18:04:43Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Yeah, that too. > > ETA: Not quite a teenager - “Nightfall” was published when he was 21. _Published_ when he was (probably\*) 21. From my own experience, it takes many months to get these into print. My recollection, which might be mistaken, is that the “when I was a teenager” line came from Asimov himself, but his memory of his age might be off by a few months, too. \*Wikipedia shows his birth date to be nebulously defined. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/79 "2014-07-13T18:13:43Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > _Published_ when he was (probably\*) 21. From my own experience, it takes many months to get these into print. My recollection, which might be mistaken, is that the “when I was a teenager” line came from Asimov himself, but his memory of his age might be off by a few months, too. > > \*Wikipedia shows his birth date to be nebulously defined. In “I, Asimov” Asimov notes the exact date when Campbell gave him the idea for the story, which was March 17, 1941 (Asimov had a diary that included that kind of detail). But, all nitpicking aside, your original point stands - it was doubtless annoying for Asimov to be told that a story he wrote as a callow youth was his best ever. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900/80 "2014-07-13T18:38:48Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Yeah, well, so is Rush Limbaugh. > > Decon has its place. Unfortunately, it’s kudzued all over the critical spectrum. > > In my example above, for example, Heinlein was simply, flat-out, factually wrong in his statements about his work. No interpretation or subjective analysis required. Ah, I think there’s been a miscommunication–I misunderstood what you were trying to imply when you said “Derrida is dead.” The view that texts have no intrinsic meaning by no means guarantees the author is correct about what he says about the text–to the contrary, if the text has no intrinsic meaning, the author is just as wrong as everybody else when he or she tries to interpret what they wrote. In my view, since all the meaning in Heinlein’s text comes from its readers, Heinlein himself doesn’t get to be authoritative about its meaning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-artist-is-wrong-about-his-own-work/692900.md?page=5)