# The Asshole Motherfucking Murderous Criminal Hawthorne Cops Who Killed the Rottweiler **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419 "2013-07-02T04:13:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/181 "2013-07-03T18:17:39Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Well, I personally don’t value the life of a dog over a human, but my impression is most people I’ve met will in some cases. People are nuts about their pets. I’ve had grown, tough men tell me that when their dog died, they cried more than when their own mother died. _shrug_ It’s a hell of a lot more common than you think. And the odd thing, it’s not the typical animal-rights lefty types who express these positions to me. Of course it isn’t, because it’s not coming from a typical animal-rights lefty place. Crying more over your dog than your mother, for instance, is not really so much about elevating dogs over people as it is the fact that for lots of adults, their dogs are much more important daily parts of their lives so the loss is more acute, whereas they may only see their mothers a few times a year, not have so great a relationship to start with, and it is the natural way of things to separate from one’s parents to some degree simply because they are very likely to die before you do…again, the natural order. Your dog, on the other hand, is your daily companion in your current life. > [@pulykamell](#): > > You have a rather optimistic view of humanity, I think. The fact that so many people support the death penalty, for one, should suggest somewhat that many (perhaps most) people don’t regard all human life as having the same value, and I’d bet that those people would value the life of the family dog over such human life. Are you saying that the people who support the death penalty clearly have human lives they rate below that of animals, seeing as how they are ok with killing them? Because that’s certainly a fair observation, and true. All people are objectively NOT superior to all animals, THAT is just nuts…Let’s see, how about this guy, is he more valuable than any and all animals? Not even close, in my book: > [@](#): > > Enraged over his daughter’s alleged relations with men, a father allegedly beheaded the married woman with a sword and carried the head in the village before surrendering himself to police in Rajasamand district. > > - See more at: [Father beheads daughter,carries head to police station | India News - The Indian Express](http://www.indianexpress.com/news/father-beheads-daughter-carries-head-to-police-station/963435/#sthash.qDEZUdOu.dpuf) So that guy vs. a cocker spaniel that knows when the little boy who loves him has a drop in blood sugar and licks his face. Quick! Choose! Okay, you choose the cocker spaniel…too easy because you can cop out that the cocker is a tool to help save a human. Still counts, but ok… How about that guy vs. [KoKo the gorilla](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWxCM6llL60): > [@](#): > > Koko watches intently a DVD movie on her TV that she has seen several times before. It is called Tea with Mussolini. When it comes to a sad part, where the boy has to say goodbye to all of his relatives and waves goodbye on the train, Koko turns away from the TV. She then proceeds to sign: “Frown, sad, cry, bad, trouble, mother and Koko-love.” Her eyes also look very watery. (Gorillas cry too.) > > Lesson: There is mounting scientific evidence that great apes can feel empathy for others. This example points to the possibility that gorillas, in particular, may also be able to empathize with fictional human characters portrayed by actors—or at least be moved by them So if you have to choose who dies, Koko or Dad Playing Soccer With Daughters Head, are you really gonna pick Koko to die just on the basis of the fact that dad has human DNA?? Because that is way fucked up in my book. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/182 "2013-07-03T18:30:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You’re crazy. The dog starts barking. No shooting. The dog jumped out of the car. no shooting. The dog ran towards them. No shooting. The dog got aggressive and started barking and lunging at them. No shooting. One cop reaches out (maybe to grab the dog’s collar or something) the dog lunges again, dog gets shot and dies. Your characterization of the chain of events is mindnumbingly stupid. > > There was about 10 seconds between the dog running at the cops and the dog getting shot. It wasn’t their first response. > > (Snip) > > I think they could have shot the dog as soon as it ran at them. > > If it was me, I would have shot the dog as soon as it started running towards me. I wouldn’t have let it get that close. No, I’m not crazy. Yes, it was their first response. They did not try to apprehend the dog. They did not try to get the owner to calm it down. They did not give it time to settle down. They did not try to keep it at bay with their club or scare it away with a non-lethal means. They sat there and did nothing until the dog approached them, _hardly_ made an aggressive move and shot it dead. That was their very first response. Those last two parts there, all I’m hearing is, “Who gives a fuck? It’s just a stupid dog.” ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/183 "2013-07-03T18:46:25Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Those last two parts there, all I’m hearing is, “Who gives a fuck? It’s just a stupid dog.” Then not only are you retarded like stoid your deaf too. Why don’t you two go back to stuffing your donut holes with donuts. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/184 "2013-07-03T18:51:55Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > The police have a legal right to cordon off an area around an armed robbery that just took place. Sure they do, and he was standing outside that area, a considerable distance away from the crime scene. He wasn’t approaching them, he wasn’t crossing a police tape. he was standing at the corner, by his car filming them from a distance. Which he has a right to do. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/185 "2013-07-03T18:53:14Z")
I’m sticking up for the dead innocent dog and somehow I’m the bad guy. Funny how that works. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/186 "2013-07-03T18:54:59Z")
Welcome to the police state mentality ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/187 "2013-07-03T18:56:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And if the choice is releasing prisoners or shooting an aggressive dog, you shoot the dog. I won’t bother to address all the stupid things some people have said since I was here yesterday, but I’ll address you because I believe you’re capable of understanding. I wouldn’t suggest releasing prisoners as a general thing. But this “prisoner” wasn’t the armed robber being surveiled, merely a guy with a beef for cops that was playing loud music and taking video. Clearly an asshole but not a dangerous felon. He’d been in custody all of, what, 25 seconds? Letting him go, even with cuffs on, wasn’t going to pose any threat to society or to the 4 cops who could continue his detainment from a few feet away. That’s all I meant by “releasing” him. I wouldn’t care if they took him away in a wagon, but if they did, Animal Control would be needed to remove his dog from the car (assuming the windows were more up) anyway. What would it hurt to let him hold the dog, or put it back into the car, until AC arrived? Hell, they could have tied the dog’s leash to his ankle and kept him “under restraint” the whole time 😉 . ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/188 "2013-07-03T19:13:10Z")
Wasn’t the guy singled out because of an existing lawsuit? Some cop recognized him and decide to take a little cop vengeance by arresting him for filming them (and of course making up the whole obstruction thing as cops are wont to do). ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/189 "2013-07-03T19:39:13Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Wasn’t the guy singled out because of an existing lawsuit? Some cop recognized him and decide to take a little cop vengeance by arresting him for filming them (and of course making up the whole obstruction thing as cops are wont to do). According to the lawsuit (which is available online) The guy filed a complaint against a cop. Then was called to testify in another complaint against that cop. The police were called to his house for a domestic disturbance (verbal, non-violent) and the police allegedly recognized him and beat the crap out of him, hauled him in, and beat the crap out of him again (requiring medical treatment). He then sued them. So, if what he alleges is true, perhaps he stopped to video them because of his previous experiences and they decided to get back at him. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/190 "2013-07-03T20:01:53Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I guess I am a lunatic… You’re only just now figuring that out? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/191 "2013-07-03T20:20:47Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Then not only are you retarded like stoid your deaf too. Why don’t you two go back to stuffing your donut holes with donuts. Didn’t someone already try this corny ass joke. Time for the pit to step the funny up, man. **pops another donut-hole** ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/192 "2013-07-03T20:30:24Z")
[Interview with Rosby.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzvJzqZ8iVY) ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/193 "2013-07-03T20:37:31Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It gets better. The dog owner looks like he’s a victim by trade. > > [Cite](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2353347/Police-shoot-kill-Rottweiler-street-dog-runs-owner-arrested-obstruction-justice.html#ixzz2Xu9eYtA0) > > This guy probably shows up everwhere the cops are operating and generally acts like a pain in the ass hoping to get another lawsuit against them. That’s probably why the cops calmly walked up and arrested him so quickly. They probably knew exactly who he was from their past run ins with him. I’m no huge fan of LEO’s, as is evidenced by the last 13 years of posts by me. Having said that, anyone who claims he was handcuffed for Walking While Black who has THIS kind of proven record of harassing law enforcement all around the town? Well, pal, stay away from fresh crime scenes. I wish the officer had reached for his taser instead, but really? He should get bitten…once? Twice? Maybe lose some piece of his face? Then it would have been okay for him to fire his gun? Please. And no, the dog is not a human. A human would have been warned to back off and not keep approaching. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/194 "2013-07-04T01:20:30Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > anyone who claims he was handcuffed for Walking While Black who has THIS kind of proven record of harassing law enforcement all around the town? Well, pal, stay away from fresh crime scenes. I think he probably is the one being harassed, and if so, it’s admirable that he’s willing to stop and video record the police given what he has been through. In any case, he had the right to be where he was and do what he was doing. Carlos Miller summed it up pretty well in his response to the police chief: > [@Carlos Miller](#): > > Your department has shown a pattern of intimidation and harassment against citizens who record officers in the line of duty, which is not against the law. > > Your officers tried to do it again in the most recent incident and the situation escalated to what we have now. > > Leon Rosby had the right to stand where he was standing because there was no perimeter set up. There were enough officers at the scene to set up a perimeter if they really wanted him out of that area. > > As far as the music goes, that is generally handled with a traffic citation. Not an arrest. > > Your officers pushed their weight around as they’ve done so many times in the past and it lead to this huge public outcry, not to mention this momentous loss of credibility for your officers and for officers throughout the United States. > > You guys may have the badges and the guns and the authority. But for every citizen you intimidate in an unlawful manner, ten of us are going to speak up about it and inform hundreds of more citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/195 "2013-07-04T01:51:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Fire? The Wheel? Opposable thumbs? Digital watches? 3 out of 4 ain’t bad! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/196 "2013-07-04T02:02:42Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Fire? The Wheel? Opposable thumbs? Digital watches? Really? Smarter = Better? Animals dont’ need wheels or fire or opposable thumbs, they are fine without them. I’m with Henry Beston’s lyrical summary of our place in the world, and the animals’: > [@](#): > > We need another and a wiser and perhaps a more mystical concept of animals. Remote from universal nature and living by complicated artifice, man in civilization surveys the creature through the glass of his knowledge and sees thereby a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion. **We patronize them for their incompleteness, for their tragic fate for having taken form so far below ourselves. And therein do we err. For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours, they move finished and complete, gifted with the extension of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren, they are not underlings: they are other nations, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendour and travail of the earth**.” ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/197 "2013-07-04T02:49:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Because I read all your comments. You keep faulting teh cops for self defense by insisting that they jump through a bunch of hoops and try all these other things before they defend themselves. I’m just not sure how to counter your stupid statement. Cops are _trained_ to try all kinds of non lethal tactics before they use lethal force. It’s the reason so many of our dumber citizens are still alive today. Do you have some kind of simplified idea that the cop’s job is to shoot their way out of any tense situation? > [@](#): > > I think they would have been justified in shooting the dog as soon as it jumped out of the car and started running towards the cops. Sure why not. Had the dog simply run past them shooting it would save the dog catcher an unnecessary trip. Although it occurs to me if they had shot the owner immediately (deadly force - your favorite first choice) instead of arresting him the dog may have stayed in the car. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/198 "2013-07-04T05:39:12Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Well, you’re certainly humiliating yourself here. > > Look, I love animals. I really do. I think they’re amazing. I realize that we’re also an animal. But in this world of ours, there are systems and food chains and we happen to be at the top based on thousands and millions and billions of years of evolution. But if I had to kill 100 or 1000 or 10,000 dogs to save one human life - it wouldn’t take me more than 2 seconds to make that decision. Sorry Rover, sucks to be you. Yeah Bob, we all know that we’re at the top of the food chain. That really doesn’t need to be pointed out. What you fail to realize is that we live within an ecosystem, and without animals, there would be no humans. So, I don’t think killing 10,000 dogs is such a good idea. With that said, you can take your stupid ass argument and shove it up your ass, you stupid fuck. Have a happy 4th, Bob. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/199 "2013-07-04T10:02:31Z")
Realizing this is the Pit, I still feel the need to mention the obvious: the killing of a dog isn’t murder. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/200 "2013-07-04T10:07:59Z")
> [@bdgr](#): > > The dogs owner has a legal right to video the police. If they had left him alone, this wouldn’t have happened. I don’t blame someone for shooting a dog that is trying to attack them, but the police put themselves in that situation. Yup. They had so many options for handling this without it escalating to this farce that it’s not even funny. I’m about as pro-police as you can get, but the behaviour of the officers there indicates people who are unable to handle a confrontation without going completely overboard, and are then surprised that there’s an unexpected outcome. If that’s typical behaviour for US police, it’s terrifying. What’s more alarming is the amount of enablement being shown for this stupidity. The guy is clearly at fault, because he’s previously complained about police behaviour. He’s at fault because he should have predicted he was about to get cuffed, so should have closed all windows completely as well as putting the dog in the car. Serious levels of bullshit there. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > Welcome to the police state mentality It’s one hell of a day when I agree with FXMastermind. Fuck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419.md?page=11)