# The Asshole Motherfucking Murderous Criminal Hawthorne Cops Who Killed the Rottweiler **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419 "2013-07-02T04:13:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/221 "2013-07-04T21:17:01Z")
Speaking of the Police State > [@](#): > > He says they also hurt his pet dog for no reason whatsoever: “Plaintiff Anthony Mitchell’s pet, a female dog named ‘Sam,’ was cowering in the corner when officers smashed through the front door. Although the terrified animal posed no threat to officers, they gratuitously shot it with one or more pepperball rounds. The panicked animal howled in fear and pain and fled from the residence. Sam was subsequently left trapped outside in a fenced alcove without access to water, food, or shelter from the sun for much of the day, while temperatures outside soared to over 100 degrees Fahrenheit.” [https://www.courthousenews.com/2013/07/03/59061.htm](https://www.courthousenews.com/2013/07/03/59061.htm) Read the whole thing, it’s seriously fucked up. If it wasn’t the 4th I would start a topic ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/222 "2013-07-04T22:08:09Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Read the whole thing, it’s seriously fucked up. If it wasn’t the 4th I would start a topic You appear to have a serious problem with your police force. The ones here are far from brilliant, and have some definite problems, but the stuff your link describes is on a whole different level of totalitarian excess. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/223 "2013-07-05T01:36:33Z")
Hey, it’s not MY police, that was Vegas. I actually live in a really good area with police that are considerate and well trained, and save dogs, rather than shoot them. But yeah, that is some seriously fucked up shit there. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/224 "2013-07-05T02:12:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the take home lesson here for all potential criminals is clear. > > You can kill men. You can kill women. You can even kill children. You can kill entire families. > > But when you’re killing an entire family, make sure you don’t hurt their dog. That will upset people. Indeed. Works also in fiction. People are more upset by the on-screen death of a dog than by the half-dozen human victims. Dog attacks police officer (or whoever else, as far as I’m concerned), dog gets killed. The story unfolded as it should have. As apaled as I am by the apparent trigger happy attitude of cops in some area of the USA, on the basis of the threads opened on this board, this definitely isn’t a situation that will bother me. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/225 "2013-07-05T02:53:43Z")
Just in case any non Americans are reading this and don’t understand America [![](https://i.imgur.com/removed.png) ](https://i.imgur.com/removed.png) That should clear things up. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/226 "2013-07-05T04:05:07Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Indeed. Works also in fiction. People are more upset by the on-screen death of a dog than by the half-dozen human victims. > Dog attacks police officer (or whoever else, as far as I’m concerned), dog gets killed. The story unfolded as it should have. As apaled as I am by the apparent trigger happy attitude of cops in some area of the USA, on the basis of the threads opened on this board, this definitely isn’t a situation that will bother me. Except, of course, the dog did not attack anybody. But that’s just a minor detail. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/227 "2013-07-05T04:17:30Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Except, of course, the dog did not attack anybody. But that’s just a minor detail. Bullshit. Lunge = attack. Maybe not in your canine-sensitive world, but I the real world, if a dog does anything like “lunge” at me - teeth bared or not, I don’t give a fuck – and I have a lethal weapon, that dog is going to die. Immediately. It has nothing to do with whether or not I’m a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/228 "2013-07-05T05:44:12Z")
I agree that the dog wasn’t being aggressive initially (just barking, no growling or snarling). That being said, I primarily came in here to say that, having watched the video, I am really upset that no one shot again to put that poor dog out of his misery . . . my god, after he was shot and rolled around then _got back up and tried to walk_ . . . I am tearing up just thinking about it. Did the police think maybe the dog would live and so didn’t want to kill him? Were they just too startled to react appropriately? My god what an awful way for a loyal companion to die. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/229 "2013-07-05T15:33:25Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Bullshit. Lunge = attack. Maybe not in your canine-sensitive world, but I the real world, if a dog does anything like “lunge” at me - teeth bared or not, I don’t give a fuck – and I have a lethal weapon, that dog is going to die. Immediately. It has nothing to do with whether or not I’m a cop. You’re so tough. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/230 "2013-07-05T15:39:01Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Bullshit. > > There were three cops standing around. Two of them held the handcuffed suspect while the other pulled out a gun and killed it. Well, maybe. Maybe not. It’s real easy for you to say it sitting at your keyboard. Frankly, the risk isn’t worth it. I don’t particularly trust cops either, but a dog is a small price to pay to avoid a fairly significant risk of a person being badly mauled. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/231 "2013-07-08T19:59:03Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > No, I’m not crazy. Yes, it was their first response. They did not try to apprehend the dog. Did you see the cop try to grab the dog collar right before it lunged at him? > [@](#): > > They sat there and did nothing until the dog approached them, _hardly_ made an aggressive move and shot it dead. That was their very first response. Their first response was to do nothing, I would have shot it as soon as it started running towards me. then when the dog attacked them they shot it dead. > [@](#): > > Those last two parts there, all I’m hearing is, “Who gives a fuck? It’s just a stupid dog.” Thats because you aren’t listening. If the cops had shot a dog that was tied to a leash or locked up inside a car, then I’d be outraged. But thats not what happened, they shot a dog that was attacking them. I would have done it a lot sooner than they did. > [@panaccione](#): > > I’m sticking up for the dead innocent dog and somehow I’m the bad guy. Funny how that works. You aren’t sticking up for a dog, you are damning cops who engaged in self defense because you think they could have avoided shooting the dog with what you consider minimal risk to themselves. I don’t think they are obligated to take that risk and frankly I don’t want them to take that risk. > [@CannyDan](#): > > I won’t bother to address all the stupid things some people have said since I was here yesterday, but I’ll address you because I believe you’re capable of understanding. > > I wouldn’t suggest releasing prisoners as a general thing. Yeah, I hear you, they could have done things differently and it might have prevented the dog from getting shot. From what I can tell, there were less than 30 second between the dog jumping out of the car and the dog getting shot. If I have to choose between spending training time ingraining proper procedure when confronted by an aggresive dog belonging to a low risk person in custody versus almost anything else, then almost anything else wins and I want the cop to shoot any dog that attacks them no matter the situation. > [@Cartooniverse](#): > > I’m no huge fan of LEO’s, … > > …I wish the officer had reached for his taser instead, but really? He should get bitten…once? Twice? Maybe lose some piece of his face? Then it would have been okay for him to fire his gun? Please. > > And no, the dog is not a human. A human would have been warned to back off and not keep approaching. I am also not a huge fan of cops (mostly based on my anecdotal experience of the people I know who became cops and my experience with cops in LA) but I don’t find fault in what that cop did. I feel bad for the dog and i wish it didn’t happen but given a choice between a dead dog and an injured cop, I pick dead dog every day of the week. > [@BubbaDog](#): > > I’m just not sure how to counter your stupid statement. Cops are _trained_ to try all kinds of non lethal tactics before they use lethal force. It’s the reason so many of our dumber citizens are still alive today. Do you have some kind of simplified idea that the cop’s job is to shoot their way out of any tense situation? With dogs? Yeah, shoot them if they are off a leash and acting aggresively. > [@](#): > > Although it occurs to me if they had shot the owner immediately (deadly force - your favorite first choice) instead of arresting him the dog may have stayed in the car. With people, not so much. > [@Stoid](#): > > If the dog was doing to me what the dog in the video did I would be horrified if it were shot. That is my whole point. I have no problem with cops shooting dogs were genuinely attacking. Especially if no alternatives are available. That dog was clearly not attacking And several alternatives were available. If the dog was doing to me what that dog was doing and a cop standing nearby DIDN’T shoot the dog, I would be pissed off at the cop and yelling at him to shoot the damn dog. > [@Stoid](#): > > Except, of course, the dog did not attack anybody. But that’s just a minor detail. It sure looked like it was attacking to me. I think a cop could reasonably believe the dog was attacking. I think the cop gets the benefit of that doubt. > [@Gestalt](#): > > My god what an awful way for a loyal companion to die. It can’t help that it picked the wrong owner to be loyal to, its instinctive. Dogs are better people than a lot of their owners and I think this might have been the case here. Like Eddard Stark, this dog died of loyalty. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/232 "2013-07-08T20:40:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It sure looked like it was attacking to me. I think a cop could reasonably believe the dog was attacking. I think the cop gets the benefit of that doubt. Sometimes they surely do. Not on the this one. (and how it looked to uneducated eyes is my point: educate the goddamn cops. It’s really not that complicated.) Starting with the fact that they guy they were arresting practically jumped into their arms and begged to be handcuffed, then demonstrated remarkable control over the dog in chaotic circumstances, there was ZERO reason not to let him deal with the dog. NONE. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/233 "2013-07-09T00:50:43Z")
Apparently this local police department really could give two shits about what the [United States Department of Justice](http://www.avinalaw.com/2012/05/our-first-amendment-right-to-record.html) has to say on this very topic. Oh, to be on the sidewalk when a Department of Justice officer in plain clothes videotapes a police officer. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/234 "2013-07-09T02:00:34Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Apparently this local police department really could give two shits about what the [United States Department of Justice](http://www.avinalaw.com/2012/05/our-first-amendment-right-to-record.html) has to say on this very topic. > > Oh, to be on the sidewalk when a Department of Justice officer in plain clothes videotapes a police officer. The Department of Justice doesnt make or decide law. It doesnt matter what they say other than as informed opinion. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/235 "2013-07-09T04:44:55Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I would value the life of my dog over many people I’ve met. Is that selfish? Maybe. Does it say a lot about what I think of some people? Certainly. But for me, at the least, it is true. Which are good reasons for me not to trust your opinion about such an issue. If you value a dog’s life more than a human’s life…well, I deleted all I wrote…your statement speaks for itself. Oh…and if you were the guy arrested, you’d take revenge on the cop? This too speaks for itself… ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/236 "2013-07-09T10:24:15Z")
The thing is, **AnthonyElite** and **Strikingly Thick-headed Obtuse Unintelligent Dolt** , the law seems to take a decidely different view of the relative merits of the life of a human being and [del]property[/del] [del]an animal that could be used as a weapon[/del] a dog than you appear to take. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/237 "2013-07-09T10:36:24Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > **Strikingly Thick-headed Obtuse Unintelligent Dolt** Drat. That should be: **Strikingly Thick-headed Obtuse un-Intelligent Dolt**. Carry on with the carrying on, please. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/238 "2013-07-09T12:03:14Z")
Gosh, it would have been nice had one of the officers been able to control the attacking dog with his mind and alpha dog presence, but sadly this wasn’t _Dog Whisperer PD_. A word to the wise: If you want to fuck around with people carrying guns, keep your beloved dog locked up, especially if it’s a big breed known for attacking people. BTW, I’m a huge animal lover and support shelters and pro-animal lobbies. That doesn’t mean that I would ever put a human’s life ahead of a dog’s. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/239 "2013-07-09T15:34:03Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Sometimes they surely do. Not on the this one. (and how it looked to uneducated eyes is my point: educate the goddamn cops. It’s really not that complicated.) Starting with the fact that they guy they were arresting practically jumped into their arms and begged to be handcuffed, then demonstrated remarkable control over the dog in chaotic circumstances, there was ZERO reason not to let him deal with the dog. NONE. I think you’re wrong. And most of the non-PETA types here seem to think so as well. As far as I can tell, this is coming down to opinion and your opinion is really no better than ours its just skewed heavily in favor of doing every fucking thing possible to save a dog’s life regardless of the cost to society. I don’t want my police department spending a lot of time training their cops to be sensistive enough to determine when the dog that is attacking them isn’t “really” attacking them and when the dog needs to be shot. I want them to be safe and spend time training how to better deal with shit like domestic violence and youth gangs. If someone can’t keep their dog on a leash and it gets shot, then thats unfortunate but I won’t have my police department jump through hoops to save a dog with a stupid owner. > [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Apparently this local police department really could give two shits about what the [United States Department of Justice](http://www.avinalaw.com/2012/05/our-first-amendment-right-to-record.html) has to say on this very topic. > > Oh, to be on the sidewalk when a Department of Justice officer in plain clothes videotapes a police officer. I don’t think he got arrested for videotaping the cops. if you were paying attention, you would notice that the guys that videotaped the dog getting shot were also videotaping the cops and you will also notice that there were several other people videotaping the cops. That jackass didn’t get arrested for videotaping. Its not clear to me why he was arrested but it seems clear that he knew he was provoking the cops and his carelessness with his dog ended up getting his dog killed. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/240 "2013-07-09T20:31:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > \Yeah, I hear you, they could have done things differently and it might have prevented the dog from getting shot. From what I can tell, there were less than 30 second between the dog jumping out of the car and the dog getting shot. If I have to choose between spending training time ingraining proper procedure when confronted by an aggresive dog belonging to a low risk person in custody versus almost anything else, then almost anything else wins and I want the cop to shoot any dog that attacks them no matter the situation.\ “Could have” are the operative words. Understand, I handle animals every day, some of them far more aggressive and potentially dangerous than the dog in question. Reading the probable actions of these critters and preventing mayhem to myself and others is my wheelhouse. And I agree that imparting that skill set to LEOs would be problematic. So although I regret the action taken, and though my own evaluation of the circumstances is that the dog was not being aggressive, I can see that other people without specialized training could reasonably believe that it was. And so, at that moment, the shooting was justified. But back to the “could have” – I maintain it is “should have”. The situation didn’t require specialized training in procedure, nor a snap decision about public risk assessments regarding dangerous animals versus custodial detention. Really, the guy was apparently being an annoyance. But he wasn’t (by any testimony I’ve seen) dangerous. He probably was recognized by somebody who decided that payback involved hassling him on whatever excuse presented itself. So they arrested him for playing loud music, stretched into “interference” because playing music isn’t really a violation. Given this, any cop with the brains bog gave green apples should have (IM not so HO) just said “Oh hell, go grab your dog and put it up before something unfortunate happens, then we’ll get back to your detention”. Not because procedure allowed it, or his/her training required it, but simply because it would obviously (to nearly anyone) be the right thing to do. And the dog would still be alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419.md?page=13)