# The Asshole Motherfucking Murderous Criminal Hawthorne Cops Who Killed the Rottweiler **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419 "2013-07-02T04:13:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/61 "2013-07-02T18:03:34Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > With billy clubs, mace, tazers…yet the only way they can keep a 50-75lb dog back is to kill it with a gun? As someone else mentioned earlier, how would people like you react if the video showed a cop beating on the dog with a billy cub, or tazing it? You’d be frothing at the mouth just as much, and the dog would still be dead because there’s no way it wouldn’t be destroyed after attacking a cop. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/62 "2013-07-02T18:06:23Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > The defusing part comes before the dog attacks. Maybe four cops surrounding a handcuffed man looked like a dogfight to the poor dog. He did what any dog would do. > > Part of my criticism is that the guy wasn’t putting up much resistance if any. > > A handcuffed man isn’t going to run very far. He certainly couldn’t get back in his car and drive off. Unless the guy was instructing the dog to bite, the logical move would have been to take a few steps back away from the handcuffed guy. The dogs aggressiveness level might drop if he sees the cops step away from his master. That would also give the dumbshit a chance to save the dog’s life by calming it down. > > THAT’s where I thought that the cops failed. > > Once the dog lunges though there’s no coming back. That’s a dog breed that is very affectionate but also extremely loyal and has a build capable of inflicting a lot of medical damage. > > So my criticism is how the cops operated BEFORE the dog attacked. During the attack they did what they had to do. Agreed. Watched the video. The guy was filming the cops, then it seemed (sound didn’t carry) that they called to him and began to approach him. So he put the dog in his car and then walked toward the approaching cops. They (again apparently) ordered him to turn around, and handcuffed him. It did not appear to me that he had any reason to believe he was about to be arrested when he put the dog in the car. The dog was clearly becoming agitated, and leaning out the car window. Seems at this point the cops should have marched the guy over to the car and allowed / commanded him to control or better confine the dog. What did they think was going to happen to it in the car if they took him into custody? And whatever his offense (“hindering”?) it wasn’t a violent crime they had to immediately suppress. They should have taken the dog into consideration. Even after the dog leaped from the car and approached the group, there was still a fine opportunity to let the man control his dog. Even with handcuffs on, he could have been allowed to just walk away and the dog would almost certainly have followed. Or better, uncuffing him. Call Animal Control and let the guy hold his dog until they came, then both could be taken into custody. Again, it wasn’t some violent felony they were stopping. And if they had previous knowledge of the man, then even less worry about “escape”. They could go arrest him for litterin’ – err, for interfering – any time later. It was only after the group continued to hold the man, surrounding him and preventing him from controlling or even comforting his dog that it jumped at an officer. At that point, indeed, shooting it was acceptable. But the situation should never have reached that point. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/63 "2013-07-02T18:10:31Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > As someone else mentioned earlier, how would people like you react if the video showed a cop beating on the dog with a billy cub, or tazing it? You’d be frothing at the mouth just as much, and the dog would still be dead because there’s no way it wouldn’t be destroyed after attacking a cop. How would I like it if it were tazed? Just fine. As long as it was necessary, which it seemed like it was. Why does it have to be the fatal option? Why does it HAVE to be destroyed? Why is there such a double standard that whenever a human makes a mistake, the life is precious and we cannot kill them for this, but when an animal does, it means certain death? ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/64 "2013-07-02T18:13:25Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Agreed. Watched the video. The guy was filming the cops, then it seemed (sound didn’t carry) that they called to him and began to approach him. So he put the dog in his car and then walked toward the approaching cops. They (again apparently) ordered him to turn around, and handcuffed him. It did not appear to me that he had any reason to believe he was about to be arrested when he put the dog in the car. > > The dog was clearly becoming agitated, and leaning out the car window. Seems at this point the cops should have marched the guy over to the car and allowed / commanded him to control or better confine the dog. What did they think was going to happen to it in the car if they took him into custody? And whatever his offense (“hindering”?) it wasn’t a violent crime they had to immediately suppress. They should have taken the dog into consideration. > > Even after the dog leaped from the car and approached the group, there was still a fine opportunity to let the man control his dog. Even with handcuffs on, he could have been allowed to just walk away and the dog would almost certainly have followed. Or better, uncuffing him. Call Animal Control and let the guy hold his dog until they came, then both could be taken into custody. Again, it wasn’t some violent felony they were stopping. And if they had previous knowledge of the man, then even less worry about “escape”. They could go arrest him for litterin’ – err, for interfering – any time later. > > It was only after the group continued to hold the man, surrounding him and preventing him from controlling or even comforting his dog that it jumped at an officer. At that point, indeed, shooting it was acceptable. > > But the situation should never have reached that point. Exactly, they make it seem like this was an unfortunate case where the police were given no options. The reality is that they made several incorrect choices which put them in a dead end where they had to take the dog’s life. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/65 "2013-07-02T18:14:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You know who else loved dogs? Hitler. Mom!!! **Little Nemo** said the ‘H’ word!! ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/66 "2013-07-02T18:14:41Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Why does it HAVE to be destroyed? Why is there such a double standard that whenever a human makes a mistake, the life is precious and we cannot kill them for this, but when an animal does, it means certain death? Because dogs that prove to be aggressive are a danger to society. What do you suggest be done with aggressive animals? Put them in dog jail? ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/67 "2013-07-02T18:18:59Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Because dogs that prove to be aggressive are a danger to society. What do you suggest be done with aggressive animals? Put them in dog jail? Aggressive dogs? Fine, but please, put all the aggressive people down first, they are a much greater threat. Plus, a dog, properly rehabilitated is usually safe. I’m not sure I can say the same of people… The dog is, to an extent, just clockwork. If the owner winds him up a certain way, it will tic a certain way. There’s nothing wrong with the clockwork, just the owner. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/68 "2013-07-02T18:23:08Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > How would I like it if it were tazed? Just fine. As long as it was necessary, which it seemed like it was. Why does it have to be the fatal option? Why does it HAVE to be destroyed? Why is there such a double standard that whenever a human makes a mistake, the life is precious and we cannot kill them for this, but when an animal does, it means certain death? I’m curious what you think happens after you tase a large, aggressive dog. Do they shrug as if to say “no hard feelings” and skip off with tail happily a-wagging? Or are they now flooded with adrenaline, completely enraged, and ready to tear the face off the first living creature they see? Humans have the ability to comprehend “lie still and you won’t get tased again”— dogs, maybe not so much. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/69 "2013-07-02T18:24:33Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > What do you suggest be done with aggressive animals? Put them in dog jail? [Michael Caine] _The genital cuffs!_ [/Michael Caine] ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/70 "2013-07-02T18:25:13Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Aggressive dogs? Fine, but please, put all the aggressive people down first, they are a much greater threat. Plus, a dog, properly rehabilitated is usually safe. I’m not sure I can say the same of people… > > The dog is, to an extent, just clockwork. If the owner winds him up a certain way, it will tic a certain way. There’s nothing wrong with the clockwork, just the owner. If a clock I built started tearing off the faces of people, I’d be ok with somebody destroying my clock. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/71 "2013-07-02T18:26:25Z")
tazers are a one shot item intended for a human target that is not moving fast. a person could easily miss. a dog’s face is also a small mace target. at the distance the dog was a threat from and attacked from there wasn’t a choice for multiple weapons. the dog owner did not have control of a potentially vicious and potentially damaging dog. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/72 "2013-07-02T18:32:48Z")
I’m not advocating for the owner, burn him at the stake all you like. My beef is with killing the dog being the first choice. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/73 "2013-07-02T18:32:59Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > It was only after the group continued to hold the man, surrounding him and preventing him from controlling or even comforting his dog that it jumped at an officer. At that point, indeed, shooting it was acceptable. > > But the situation should never have reached that point. That’s the thing. As you pointed out, the cops had already made several mistakes that allowed it to get to that point. So, since the cops made a few mistakes to prevent the situation from escalating, the dog has to pay? I disagree. If they were the ones that let it get out of control, they should be the ones to get it back under control, in as peaceful a manner as possible. Just to clarify, this isn’t directed at you **Canny Dan**. I thought that was a well thought out and reasonable response you just gave. I’d just like to say that I’m not placing the entire blame on the owner or on the police. I think they both made mistakes here. The owner shouldn’t have brought his dog along, and should have had the windows rolled up. The police shouldn’t have shot and killed the dog as their very first response. I don’t see what’s so fucking idiotic about that point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Nuveena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a587f6/32.png) [@Nuveena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nuveena)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/74 "2013-07-02T18:41:03Z")
For those of you who don’t want to watch the video, there is a video in the news story linked to in the OP that shows the lead up but stops before the dog is actually shot. That will give you a better idea of what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/75 "2013-07-02T18:44:53Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > HOLY FUCKING HELL FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU… OH my GOD… HOW FUCKING DARE YOU TAKE THE LORDS NAME IN VAIN!!! > [@](#): > > It was bad enough that you were arresting that man for what appears to be “videotaping cops while black”, as best I can figure it. That was completely out of line to begin with. Of course. Because it couldn’t possibly be anything else. Especially not the cops asking him to back away from the crime scene and then him not complying. > [@](#): > > But that dog was NOT THREATENING YOU OR ANYONE ELSE, YES IT FUCKING WAS THREATENING THE COPS!!! YOU MUST BE BLIND BECAUSE IT LUNGED AT THE COPS!!! > [@](#): > > YOU FUCKING MURDEROUS VIOLENT FUCKS. THEY ARE NOT MURDEROUS VIOLENT FUCKS!!! YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!! > [@](#): > > And if you are SO GODDAMN FUCKING STUPID that you cannot TELL THAT, perhaps you could TELL THAT MANY PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO RETRIEVE THE DOG TO GET IT OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MURDEROUS SIGHT AND YOU COULD HAVE GIVEN THEM HALF A FUCKING CHANCE TO SUCCED YOU MONSTROUS ASSHOLES. NO ONE WAS TRYING TO RETRIVE THE DOG BEFORE IT LUNGED AT THE COPS!!! GO TO THE FUCKING DOCTORS OFFICE BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING BLIND!!! > [@](#): > > I’m sorry I’m completely inarticulate with rage at this fucking cruel insanity. YOU ARE ALWAYS INARTICULATE!!! > [@](#): > > FUCK YOU!!! NO!!! > [@](#): > > **FUCK!!!** SHIT!!! ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/76 "2013-07-02T18:49:07Z")
I just rewatched the full video, and it looks like the cops did try and give the dog room to back off - right before the dog lunged again that last time. They had no choice there. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/77 "2013-07-02T18:57:36Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > The defusing part comes before the dog attacks. Maybe four cops surrounding a handcuffed man looked like a dogfight to the poor dog. He did what any dog would do. This is a sad situation because clearly the dog thought it was helping its owner, and you can see the owner’s grief when the animal is killed. So yeah, it sucks, and I felt anger watching the video. I’m in most of these threads talking about how much I hate the police but really, they shouldn’t have to change how they deal with a suspect on the basis of whether the suspect’s dog is going to charge them. They didn’t just see a dog and open fire. They saw it, went “oh shit!” and tried to back off a tiny bit but the dog (again, which I think didn’t seem vicious and I think just thought it had to save its owner) kept coming. This is just the kind of fucked up thing that happens sometimes, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/78 "2013-07-02T19:06:07Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > **Stoid** , you want to clear anything up here? Care to be more specific? The dog was **not** being aggressive. The female cop who shot first was reaching out to the dog, who responded by jumping up in a manner that tells me the guy who owns the dog has allowed the dog to jump on him his whole life. With the possible exception of the first moment the dog exits the car, which was followed by his screeching to an almost cartoon-like halt (hint: dogs bent on biting someone don’t do that, or if they do, it’s in very impressive response to a command, which tells you the dog was entirely controllable and the cops should have let the owner, who posed no threat himself, deal with his dog), the dog was never threatening. Even a little. What he was was BIG. And excited. That’s all. It would take an hour to educate cops to be able to recognize dog aggression. Maybe two or three if you wanted to be particularly thorough. As it is, the equation seems to be “Big. Powerful. Approaching me. It will kill me if I don’t kill it first.” For the record, I do not hold the owner harmless, not at all. As for what the cops could have done instead, lots of things, starting with NOT approaching the dog with her arm out, thereby _ **inviting** _ the dog to approach her. (Again, the jump didn’t look even a little aggressive. It looked like a dog who has never been trained to NOT jump, which virtually all dogs need to be trained to not do, because their natural inclination is to jump in an entirely harmless way.) The owner was cuffed for completely non-violent, low-level annoyance, and was completely cooperative. They could have EASILY let the man put his dog back in his car and secure it. EASILY. But no, they decided to freak out like a bunch of schoolgirls dealing with a spider, totally focus on the dog (who seemed like he was actually more interested in sniffing around and would have continued to do so if he’d been ignored) which got his attention, then _ **approach** _ the dog with a hand out, which the dog interpreted as an invitation, prompting him to jump and giving the stupid cop a reason to shoot. It was an inexcusable display of gross ignorance, horrible judgment, and hideous overreaction. And again, owner was an asshole on a number of levels. But properly educated cops with decent judgment would not have killed that dog. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/79 "2013-07-02T19:07:22Z")
Fucking cell phones. Who was the _asshole_ that decided they all need to be fucking cameras, also? Yep. Cell phones are the root of all evil. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/80 "2013-07-02T19:09:20Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I just rewatched the full video, and it looks like the cops did try and give the dog room to back off - right before the dog lunged again that last time. They had no choice there. Then watch closer. The female cop was approaching the dog with her arm out. She did NOT give him the chance/room to back off. He DID back off, but they wouldn’t leave him be. If they felt they had to do something to secure him in some way, they could have let his owner do so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419.md?page=5)