# The Asshole Motherfucking Murderous Criminal Hawthorne Cops Who Killed the Rottweiler **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419 "2013-07-02T04:13:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/81 "2013-07-02T19:18:35Z")
I am pretty scared of big dogs like that, and my first thought was that the cops were probably in the right. After watching the video, though, I agree that they could have handled it better. That being said, anyone who gets this outraged over a dog meeting a quick and untimely death needs to read the news a bit more closely. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/82 "2013-07-02T19:23:36Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > I guess it never occurred to him that taking an attack dog to a police operation and then harassing the police might get his dog killed. > > I’m royally pissed that the cops responded to his actions like that. People aren’t trained and are liable to do that kind of stuff. The police \*are \*trained and should know how to defuse that kind of situation, not escalate it. > > And I have a special distaste for the stupid dog owner. Just because you want to see how disruptive you can be with police work doesn’t mean you need to endanger your innocent dog in the process. Taking an aggressive breed animal out of the car and parading it in front of the cops was just plain stupid. Then putting it in the car while leaving enough room for the dog to exit it was even worse. His stupidity was the tragic result of taking a dog to a gunfight. It was a terrible situation. 95% of the blame is with the dog owner, and 5% with the cops. The dog owner was an idiot for not turning down the stereo. Don’t like the officer’s conduct? File a complaint. Don’t endanger you pet to prove a point. I don’t think the dog breed matters. Most any dog would protect its master. I feel so bad for that poor dog. I wanted to cry. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/83 "2013-07-02T19:26:40Z")
> [@drunky smurf](#): > > shit!!! ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿ Crap!!! ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿ Ѡ \* \* \* ☁ Cock !!! [font=“comic sans ms”]╭∩╮(-_-)╭∩╮ Wanker!!! ╭∩╮(-_-)╭∩╮[/font] ⚜⚜⚜ Tabernac! Chalice! Maudit anglais! ⚜⚜⚜ ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/84 "2013-07-02T19:30:09Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > The defusing part comes before the dog attacks. Maybe four cops surrounding a handcuffed man looked like a dogfight to the poor dog. He did what any dog would do. And that means that the cops can’t shoot it? > [@](#): > > THAT’s where I thought that the cops failed. The cops didn’t fail. A dog died, no humans were injured. Cops do not assume the risk of someone else’s dog. The dog owner does. > [@](#): > > Once the dog lunges though there’s no coming back. That’s a dog breed that is very affectionate but also extremely loyal and has a build capable of inflicting a lot of medical damage. > > So my criticism is how the cops operated BEFORE the dog attacked. During the attack they did what they had to do. So I watched the new reporter’s version of the video and I don’t see what the cops did wrong. Sure they could have been more “dog whisperer” but I don’t see where they failed. They were getting attacked by a dog and they shot it. They have no obligation to let the dog bite them before they react. Hindsight is 20/20. Its easy to think of ways to avoid problems after the fact. the whole thing (from handcuffing to dead dog) takes maybe 30 seconds. I don’t see why they should be expected to have done anything differently. I wouldn’t even spend time training them for that situation rather than some other situation where human lives can be spared. > [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Well, consider me one of them. The problem that I have is that SO many people treat animals like they have NO value that they need someone in their corner. Women? Children? The elderly? Don’t worry, everyone will speak up. Pets? Wild animals? Not so much. Really? Then why all the outrage over cops shooting a dog that was attacking them? > [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Yes, it is terribly strange to adapt tactics that actual animal handlers would use. Are you mentally deficient? These are grown men and women that are supposed to be physically fit. There are several of them. With billy clubs, mace, tazers…yet the only way they can keep a 50-75lb dog back is to kill it with a gun? Its not the only way, its the best way. I don’t want to train every cop to be an animal handler, I’d rather teach them how to look for signs of comestic violence or neglected children. > [@CannyDan](#): > > The dog was clearly becoming agitated, and leaning out the car window. Seems at this point the cops should have marched the guy over to the car and allowed / commanded him to control or better confine the dog. Thats monday morning quarterbacking. > [@AnthonyElite](#): > > How would I like it if it were tazed? Just fine. As long as it was necessary, which it seemed like it was. Why does it have to be the fatal option? Why does it HAVE to be destroyed? Why is there such a double standard that whenever a human makes a mistake, the life is precious and we cannot kill them for this, but when an animal does, it means certain death? Because humans and animals are different. I think that’s where you might be having your disconnect. If I hit a person with my car, I have a duty to stop and call 911, if I hit an animal with my car, I don’t even have to slowdown. Perhaps one day our descendants will look back with horror at our slavery and butchery of animals but I think they are just as likely to look back and wonder how people held the sort of stupid notions that the PETA crowd held. > [@panaccione](#): > > The police shouldn’t have shot and killed the dog as their very first response. > > I don’t see what’s so fucking idiotic about that point of view. The cops didn’t fire right away, shooting wasn’t their first response. Their first response was wait and see. They waited a while and then fired when the dog lunged at them. > [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I just rewatched the full video, and it looks like the cops did try and give the dog room to back off - right before the dog lunged again that last time. They had no choice there. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/85 "2013-07-02T19:36:46Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > The dog was clearly becoming agitated, and leaning out the car window. Clear to us, knowing that at the end of the event that dog ends up dead. The cops may or may not have noticed the dog until it had already come out of the car. We have the benefit of seeing the entire scene play out with a wide view, distance, and hindsight. What we know and see when we watch that video is nothing at all like what each of those cops saw and were reacting to. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/86 "2013-07-02T19:42:43Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > It was a terrible situation. 95% of the blame is with the dog owner, and 5% with the cops. The dog owner was an idiot for not turning down the stereo. Don’t like the officer’s conduct? File a complaint. Don’t endanger you pet to prove a point. > > I don’t think the dog breed matters. Most any dog would protect its master. I feel so bad for that poor dog. I wanted to cry. Agree with second paragraph, disagree with first. Do we know the circumstances and background? Did the subject come upon this scene while out with his dog? Hard to blame him for the dog’s presence. Yes, he could have minded his own business. But he wasn’t the only one watching. Crowds of cops draw crowds of spectators. And it didn’t appear that he was objecting to any officer conduct. He was just filming the action, as indeed clearly several others were as well. His dog was irrelevant to the situation. He never threatened anyone with it, and in fact took the trouble to confine it in the car before answering the officers’ (apparent) summons. Were it me, I’d have thought the cops were going to give me a ration of shit, threaten me, and then tell me to take my ass elsewhere, refusal of which could result in my arrest. I personally would have had zero expectation of actually being arrested at that point for – what? failing to turn down my music and filming some non-action by a bunch of police? Subject looked perfectly relaxed, as did his dog (until the handcuffs) and subject was totally cooperative while being cuffed and detained. The dog became agitated in response to the actions of the cops. So maybe 50/50, or slightly higher on the cops’ side. They’re the trained ones, they’re supposed to be keeping people safe and situations under control. Not letting shit hit the fan. As for the “aggressive dog” meme upthread, that’s just bogus. The dog wasn’t the least bit aggressive. It was calm and controlled while in the owner’s custody, then became agitated but not aggressive in response to its master’s distress. Even then its actions were more excited than aggressive. Had the cops backed off and let subject reassure his dog no further drama would have ensued. So on second thought, 70/30, cops more responsible than interfering man. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/87 "2013-07-02T19:45:18Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > But the situation should never have reached that point. Exactly. The way that situation deteriorated was eminently predictable and entirely avoidable. The police involved are fucking morons and certainly not safe to carry guns. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/88 "2013-07-02T19:51:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > \ > Thats monday morning quarterbacking. \ > [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Clear to us, knowing that at the end of the event that dog ends up dead. The cops may or may not have noticed the dog until it had already come out of the car. We have the benefit of seeing the entire scene play out with a wide view, distance, and hindsight. What we know and see when we watch that video is nothing at all like what each of those cops saw and were reacting to. Were they deaf and blind? They saw the dog before, on the leash. We don’t know what was said, but they may even have told him to put it in the car and come to talk to them. His actions could support such a possibility. Then they cuffed him and it was barking its head off out the window. Even if they weren’t proactive enough to take subject over to car and have him roll the windows up, once the dog came out they still could have simply let the guy walk away. He wasn’t going to escape, he was in cuffs and wasn’t resisting, he surely wasn’t going to hurt anybody. You don’t need to be Cesar Milan to see that holding the dog’s master with his arms behind his back, crowding around him, and (I am guessing here, but I’ll lay high odds) shouting at the dog and the guy is going to make the dog less controlled and more likely to bite. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/89 "2013-07-02T19:57:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And that means that the cops can’t shoot it?.. How do you read all of my comments in this thread and come away with the idea that I said the cops couldn’t defend themselves? Is it just your lack of comprehension or a great love for quoting out of context? ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/90 "2013-07-02T20:15:51Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The cops didn’t fire right away, shooting wasn’t their first response. Their first response was wait and see. They waited a while and then fired when the dog lunged at them. Nonsense. Their first response was to shoot. They did not wait a while. The dog came out, approached them, and made a slight lunge/jump, and they shot it dead. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/91 "2013-07-02T20:16:48Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Nonsense. Their first response was to shoot. They did not wait a while. The dog came out, approached them, and made a slight lunge/jump, and they shot it dead. Not exactly correct either. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/92 "2013-07-02T20:30:57Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Not exactly correct either. Well, how did you see it then? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/93 "2013-07-02T20:46:49Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Because dogs that prove to be aggressive are a danger to society. A dog that attacks people who are attacking its master isn’t “aggressive”, it’s _loyal._ Would you have a dog killed for chasing off a burglar or a rapist? ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/94 "2013-07-02T20:51:36Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Agree with second paragraph, disagree with first. > > Do we know the circumstances and background? Did the subject come upon this scene while out with his dog? Hard to blame him for the dog’s presence. Yes, he could have minded his own business. But he wasn’t the only one watching. Crowds of cops draw crowds of spectators. > > And it didn’t appear that he was objecting to any officer conduct. He was just filming the action, as indeed clearly several others were as well. His dog was irrelevant to the situation. He never threatened anyone with it, and in fact took the trouble to confine it in the car before answering the officers’ (apparent) summons. Yes, we do know the circumstances and background. The man being arrested had a prior claim against one of the officers that he was filming. He knew that not complying with the officers instruction, hell, hanging out at the scene never mind blasting music would lead to a confrontation. He was 100% being an asshole. He put his dog in danger to prove a stupid fucking point. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/95 "2013-07-02T20:59:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A dog that attacks people who are attacking its master isn’t “aggressive”, it’s _loyal._ Would you have a dog killed for chasing off a burglar or a rapist? I would ask if you think that police officers placing a suspect under arrest are “attackers” equivalent to burglars or rapists, but we’ve taken enough detours into Moronville in this thread already. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/96 "2013-07-02T21:01:33Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > Yes, we do know the circumstances and background. The man being arrested had a prior claim against one of the officers that he was filming. He knew that not complying with the officers instruction, hell, hanging out at the scene never mind blasting music would lead to a confrontation. He was 100% being an asshole. He put his dog in danger to prove a stupid fucking point. OK, good to know. Still, I wouldn’t go past 50/50. Officers have an awful lot of discretionary power, but merely being present, and having music playing that doesn’t violate a noise ordinance, runs pretty close to Constitutional protections. I see nothing that required his arrest, but I accept that it may have been within statute and procedure. But further, even upon arrest, I’ve identified two separate means by which the dog could have safely been taken out of the equation and all parties – cops, subject, and dog – could have remained safe and whole. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/97 "2013-07-02T21:01:38Z")
P.S. His ridiculous excuse for not turning down his blasting stereo immediately is that he wanted to “make sure nobody’s civil rights were being violated” His first lawsuit is here. > **[Video Shows Hawthorne Police Arresting Man, Killing His Dog](https://www.gawker.com/video-shows-hawthorne-police-arresting-man-killing-his-641138535)** > > Fair warning: Don't watch this video if you don't want to see police arresting a man and then shooting his dog in front of him in broad daylight. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/98 "2013-07-02T21:05:30Z")
Question for the people (unbelievably) claiming that the dog showed no aggression: Do you dispute any of the following? The dog was barking in the car. The dog jumped out of the car. The dog ran towards the officers. The dog lunged at the officers right before being shot. All of this was in response to the owner being arrested. I mean, do you have some bizarre definition of “aggression” that you’d like to share? Or did you just really not pay attention to the video? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/99 "2013-07-02T21:07:59Z")
The context of his “excuse” seems to relate to his stopping and filming, not the music itself. I’m convinced that he was being provocative. But his dog was simply an uninvolved bystander that the cops could – and should – have negated as a factor if they decided to arrest the guy. It looks to me like there was spite on both sides. And the dog was the needless victim. So I’m still holding to 50/50. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/100 "2013-07-02T21:13:15Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > OK, good to know. Still, I wouldn’t go past 50/50. Officers have an awful lot of discretionary power, but merely being present, and having music playing that doesn’t violate a noise ordinance, runs pretty close to Constitutional protections. I see nothing that required his arrest, but I accept that it may have been within statute and procedure. > > But further, even upon arrest, I’ve identified two separate means by which the dog could have safely been taken out of the equation and all parties – cops, subject, and dog – could have remained safe and whole. Seriously? You are dealing with armed robbery suspects and some idiot rolls up in his car with the windows rolled down and the stereo blasting, you order him to turn the music off because you can’t hear what is going on, and instead of turning it off … he parks and gets out and walks his dog and films possible “civil rights violations”??? And you think the deciding factor in armed robber capture interference is if you violate a noise ordinance? He was being a total asshole and he has a history of being a total asshole and his dog paid the price this time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419.md?page=6)