# The Asshole Motherfucking Murderous Criminal Hawthorne Cops Who Killed the Rottweiler **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419 "2013-07-02T04:13:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![EarthGurl101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@EarthGurl101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EarthGurl101)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/121 "2013-07-03T01:25:25Z")
Another thing is if anyone has seen cop shows and they have their “german shepards” with them and they allow their dogs to attack other humans. HYPOCRITS Well what the hell? Does that mean us as citizens can shoot you dog because we are protecting ourselves. Hell no we would be in jail while this cop is still walking the streets. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/122 "2013-07-03T01:37:59Z")
What I’m seeing here is that no one is denying the owner is responsible for what happened to the dog. Even the people who sympathize with the owner/dog, recognize where he is in the wrong. What I am not seeing is people who sympathize with the cop claiming that he should bear some of the responsibility. “He had no choice.” “The owner got what was coming to him.” “It’s just a dog.” Fuck that noise. That cop over-reacted and it was despicable what he did to that innocent dog. If he over-reacts in this situation, just imagine how he will act with people. Sorry, but I’d like to see our police officers showing a bit more restraint, reason, and patience for those around them. The job is a major responsibility and they deserve all the credit in the world for the good that they do. But, too many times they have failed us and continue to get a free pass. Anyone who fails to recognize this is simply doing us all a disservice. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/123 "2013-07-03T01:38:04Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > O > That last lunge by the dog before he was shot was because _the cop made a too-fast lunging move toward him first_. All any of them needed to do was leave him alone for a couple minutes so he could figure out everything was OK. He was initially agitated because he saw his owner getting manhandled, which any dog would do. He was not being an “attack dog” he was not “attacking” anyone, and he was not being aggressive. > [@Bob Ducca](#): > > So the dog was agitated and protecting his owner, but not aggressive. I don’t see how those statements are compatible. Even if the dog was purely protecting his owner, in order to do so he would have to take an aggressive demeanor. Hey Bob, where do you see the “protecting his owner” bit? SeaDragonTattoo specifically stated that the dog was not attacking anyone, even as protection. He said he was agitated, which he was. But he didn’t do anything aggressive in response, and agitation is not aggression. That’s _exactly_ the problem here, one that it really would not take all that much time or resources to overcome: ignorance and assumption. An agitated dog is not an aggressive dog. A big dog is not an aggressive dog. A noisy dog is not an aggressive dog. There’s this shockingly simplistic equation being processed that is really nothing more than canine profiling. ---
**Author:** ![austerity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@austerity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/austerity)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/124 "2013-07-03T01:40:00Z")
A dog is basically an animal with a mouth full of knives. I’m sure no one would be outraged is a man approached a cop with a knife and the cop shot him dead. Same thing. You can find many videos of cops shooting attacking dogs on the internet. This is nothing to be outraged over. Here is an another example of a justified cop shooting an attacking dog: > **[ItemFix - Social Video Factory](https://www.itemfix.com/?r=ll)** > > Social Video Factory ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/125 "2013-07-03T01:42:06Z")
> [@austerity](#): > > A dog is basically an animal with a mouth full of knives. > > I’m sure no one would be outraged is a man approached a cop with a knife and the cop shot him dead. > > Same thing. > > You can find many videos of cops shooting attacking dogs on the internet. This is nothing to be outraged over. > > Here is an another example of a justified cop shooting an attacking dog: > [ItemFix - Social Video Factory](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=df7_1345061784) Fuck your stupid video and everything stupid thing you just said. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/126 "2013-07-03T01:52:01Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Fuck your stupid video and everything stupid thing you just said. Good response, that really bolsters your case. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/127 "2013-07-03T01:57:09Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Good response, that really bolsters your case. Do you want to watch that video? ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/128 "2013-07-03T01:58:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Since his owner was under arrest, the dog would continue to see his owner manhandled. > > Or should the police release his owner in order to calm the dog? What I saw in the video (watched it yesterday, not gonna watch it again) was a small struggle shortly after the cuffs were placed. The officer kicked the offender’s ankles out to search him, and there was some back and forth, and then the dog jumped out of the car and ran over. When everyone stepped off the curb and stopped looking like they were being rough with the guy (not that they were - but to the dog it probably looked that way), the dog stopped and just sniffed casually around in the grass. At that point, the dog was in a mindset where he could have continued to calm down _if they had left him alone_. He was fine - until the shooter darted toward him, looking to me like attempting to grab the leash - and moved too fast. That’s where some training in animal handling would have benefited everyone. There have been a couple of suggestions upthread that it possibly wouldn’t have been such a bad idea to take his keys, uncuff the guy, and have him get his dog back under control. I don’t know how good an idea that would be, knowing his history with the police and especially if at least one of them already knew the guy and is past resistance charges. If the officer had approached the dog correctly in the first place, it wouldn’t be an issue. [edit] Well, obviously, if the dog had been secured properly in the first place, it would never have come up. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/129 "2013-07-03T02:10:56Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > Did you read any of the witness interviews that detailed exactly what happened before the video started? > > Did you have the audio portion of the video on? The audio was very clear. > > The two men making the video were clearly focusing on him and clearly repeating some of his earlier remarks. He was heckling the cops. > > He had a confrontation with the cops and decided to get out of his car and walk his dog while filming the cops instead of turning off his music. Then the two guys decided they were probably going to get something memorable so they decided to film him. Is that your definition of “straw”? The guys filming were laughing at the guy being a total asshole, parading around filming “possible civil rights violations”. > > Why do you think the camera was focused on him as he was walking back and forth instead of anyone else? What do you think the remarks about the cops and him were referring to? Could it be they were anticipating a confrontation? > > What exactly do you think they meant when they said what do you think will happen if that dog gets out? They sure called that one. > > Douchebag pushed his luck too far this time and his poor dog paid for it. …I’ve read it, and don’t see anything that you’ve written that would result in an arrest: at least where I live anyway. Fortunately our police aren’t routinely armed so stupid things like this rarely (if ever) happen. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/130 "2013-07-03T02:21:40Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > Stoid, > > I’m sorry I wrote that. It was mean and I didn’t mean it. I’m sincerely pleased on your behalf that you recognized that and apologized. Good on you, seriously. For myself? No worries, I am almost immune to offense. But I’m unusual, so don’t let that stop you from taking the moment in the future if such a thing happens again with anyone else. Peace. 🆒 > [@austerity](#): > > You can find many videos of cops shooting attacking dogs on the internet. This is nothing to be outraged over. Please clarify…do you mean to say that because it happens a great deal we shouldn’t be outraged, or was that just an unfortunate collision of unrelated ideas? > [@Bricker](#): > > I’m sorry – are you suggesting the officer must actually get bitten before he can shoot an attacking dog? Of course not. But the dog should \*\*\*actually be attacking \*\*\*before the officer shoots. This one was not. > [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > At that point, the dog was in a mindset where he could have continued to calm down _if they had left him alone_. He was fine - until the shooter darted toward him, looking to me like attempting to grab the leash - and moved too fast. That’s where some training in animal handling would have benefited everyone. > > There have been a couple of suggestions upthread that it possibly wouldn’t have been such a bad idea to take his keys, uncuff the guy, and have him get his dog back under control. > [@Bricker](#): > > Or should the police release his owner in order to calm the dog? **Absolutely!** If you watched the video you know that the guy was 100% cooperative. From what we are hearing it might even be fair to say eager (idiot) So what _possible_ reason could there be for _not_ letting him secure his dog? _Especially_ if the only alternative they can think of is _killing_ it? I’m completely stumped, myself. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/131 "2013-07-03T03:55:37Z")
One thing I want to point out that people seem to be missing: I doubt those 2 cops knew this guy and his history of being an agitator. You can’t hold his past against him in this particular instance. I really don’t think they recognize him on sight or anything like that. Another thing I would give the cops a pass about is whether the dog is attacking or not. You have a big dog jumping up at you. Maybe you moved too fast, maybe you misread the signs, but that’s really scary. It may have been a mistake to shoot the dog, but I don’t think their fear makes it malicious ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/132 "2013-07-03T04:08:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You have no idea what kind of damage an 80 pound dog can do. An 80-pound dog IS a giant, as dogs go, and can exert over 300 pounds of force when it bites. That’s enough for a single bite to require reconstructive surgery, you idiot – like a defensive lineman standing on a pair of sharpened dentures placed over your arm. And here we go with the rare Pizza agreeing with Bricker moment. But that’s not all, as a pizza delivery man, I can say this: If I were allowed to have a gun while on deliveries, I would have unloaded it into several dogs already. Dog owners, many of them are nice people, and their dogs are nice dogs, and I love them all. Some dog owners are irresponsible stupid fucking idiots, who don’t know the very first thing about training or owning a dog. They think that purchasing the dog makes them a dog owner. It does not. You purchase an untamed, untrained animal, and keep it at your house, then you have a semi-domesticated wild animal inside your house. You don’t have any control over it, and can’t even get it to stop barking. You yell at the dog, as if that ever helped. You talk to the dog and tell it to stop barking, and that never helped, but you do it anyway. You give the dog treats for exhibiting dominant behavior, which teaches it to ignore personal space and think of itself as the master of the house, with human servants. The dog doesn’t respect you, and doesn’t do a damned thing you ask. It’s a wild animal. You order food, and someone that you hired and invited to come to your house does his job. You fail to restrain the dog, you fail to put the dog somewhere where it can bark and snap and be wild without harming anyone. You continue to yell and argue with the dog, even though that’s never worked before, that’s your half-hearted attempt to control its behavior, and it doesn’t listen to you. You open the door, and the dog breaks past your impenetrable defense wall of having the goddamn three year old child restraining it, and past your keen reflexes, out of your house and charging directly at what it thinks is a hostile intruder, because it is a wild, violent, territorial animal, hell-bent on defending its territory, because in the dog’s mind, the house is his territory alone. You just live there, since you’ve completely failed to establish that you’re actually the master of the house. Now, I have a wild, violent, dangerous animal about to physically harm me, and all you can do is call out the dog’s name in protest. Because you have trained the dog so well, it doesn’t even respond to its own name. Now I have to defend myself from your dog or be injured. And all I have to defend myself is the bag with pizzas in it. And I swear to god, I will use it. And I will kick the bejeezus out of his face until he can’t even move his jaw anymore. And if I had a gun, I’d shoot your dog right in front of your kids. And you would deserve it, you disgusting pricks. It’s not my fault you put me in that situation. The blame is entirely on you. I grew up in a house with many, many dogs. I love all my dogs. And I love all dogs that have been properly trained. And I have no malice against an untamed wild animal either, until it attacks me. But when you put me in the position of being attacked by your dog, whatever I do to your dog to make sure I don’t end up in the news requiring a FACE TRANSPLANT, is entirely your responsibility. Police brutality happens all the time. Police shooting a dog that is about to attack them, I couldn’t shed a tear over. **Control. Your. Dog.** It’s called a leash. It’s a couple bucks. Invest wisely, you irresponsible pricks. Your dog dies, it’s on you. Not the rest of society. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/133 "2013-07-03T05:14:33Z")
> [@EarthGurl101](#): > > Another thing is if anyone has seen cop shows and they have their “german shepards” with them and they allow their dogs to attack other humans. HYPOCRITS Well what the hell? Does that mean us as citizens can shoot you dog because we are protecting ourselves. Hell no we would be in jail while this cop is still walking the streets. Is this post a parody? You’re making judgements about police officers based on some “cop shows” you’ve seen? I guess I should be able to practice Law because I used to love watching Boston Legal and The Practice? Also why did you put quotes around German Shepards? ---
**Author:** ![EarthGurl101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@EarthGurl101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EarthGurl101)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/134 "2013-07-03T07:41:47Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Is this post a parody? > > You’re making judgements about police officers based on some “cop shows” you’ve seen? > > I guess I should be able to practice Law because I used to love watching Boston Legal and The Practice? > > Also why did you put quotes around German Shepards? This is making a point and ya cop shows on television the one thing people watch. I dont make judgements I have seen many cops make criminal acts that are wrong. Practicing law because you loved watching boston legal and practice is a fantasy. A reality cop tv show is not a fantasy you dumb ass, it is actual footage of cops. German shepards are the dogs ive seen cops use-----\> Example. Get a brain and than quote me. ---
**Author:** ![EarthGurl101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c6cbf5/32.png) [@EarthGurl101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EarthGurl101)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/135 "2013-07-03T07:50:59Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Is this post a parody? > > You’re making judgements about police officers based on some “cop shows” you’ve seen? > > I guess I should be able to practice Law because I used to love watching Boston Legal and The Practice? > > Also why did you put quotes around German Shepards? Also I saw the video I saw that the cop was in the wrong and was undertrainded for this postion. The cop was protecting himself while the dog was protecting the owner who did no harm to anyone, so why wasnt the cop actually attacked if the dog was so aggresive, and why werent any other officers attacked when the dog was outside the car for a long while. The dog would have gotten one of the cops if it truly wanted to. So sweetie, regardless what you say your opinon does not matter to me. You can blab all you want but you dont win my argument with yours because I am not a follower. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/136 "2013-07-03T12:25:02Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Also why did you put quotes around German Shepards? They’re actually miniature poodles with attitude wearing German Shepherd suits. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/137 "2013-07-03T12:48:31Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I’m not denying that the dog was showing aggression. I’m simply saying the initial response by the police was out of line. > > Question for you: Do you think there initial response was reasonable or do you think they could have handled it better? It’s good that you at least recognize the dog was being aggressive. Stoid and others wont even acknowledge that, which is simply amazing. To answer your question: Yes, their response was reasonable. They backed away from the dog, while retaining control of the owner. They tried to give it some space, and reached out to try and grab the leash or collar. Then the dog attacked and they did what they had to do. It’s regrettable, but it really wasn’t avoidable given the situation that the asshole owner created. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/138 "2013-07-03T12:50:09Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > He was not aggressive. At all. Even a little. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/139 "2013-07-03T12:51:48Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > What I am not seeing is people who sympathize with the cop claiming that he should bear some of the responsibility. “He had no choice.” “The owner got what was coming to him.” “It’s just a dog.” > > Fuck that noise. That cop over-reacted and it was despicable what he did to that innocent dog. If he over-reacts in this situation, just imagine how he will act with people. Sorry, but I’d like to see our police officers showing a bit more restraint, reason, and patience for those around them. Dogs != People. Understand this, and you’ll understand why you’re wrong on this one. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419/140 "2013-07-03T13:02:53Z")
> [@EarthGurl101](#): > > [snip] Sweetie [snip]You can blab all you want but you dont win my argument with yours because I am not a follower. This just says it all. Just a little bit of advise : YouTube style ramble blather with a touch of condescension and a “blah blah I’m not listening” statement doesn’t work well in the Straight Dope [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-asshole-motherfucking-murderous-criminal-hawthorne-cops-who-killed-the-rottweiler/662419.md?page=8)