# The Association: Along Comes Mary **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 26, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352 "2011-07-26T02:54:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/21 "2011-07-26T16:41:13Z")
Hey guys, did you know that actors make up the words in movies as they go along! That’s why they seem so real! That’s the same as rock groups! They make up all the lyrics too so there’s never a need to compliment the actual writer when you talk about lyrics! Or you could remember that “Along Comes Mary” was written by [Tanden Almer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandyn_Almer), not the Association. And it could be a California vs. New York thing, but I never once heard a real live human being refer to marijuana as Mary Jane or any derivative of that name. Other than this song, a reference to Mary was just a reference to a girl. And there are thousands of songs to Mary that have nothing to do with pot. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/22 "2011-07-26T16:42:50Z")
I’ve always gotten a kick out of the guy who plays the recorder sideways. Must be a flute player who couldn’t get used to holding the instrument straight. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/23 "2011-07-26T16:52:54Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I was in 8th grade when _Mary_ came out, and even then I considered it to be more of an exercise in trying to write clever lyrics than a song. _Windy_ was cute, although her having **“stormy eyes that flash with the sound of lies”** spoiled the general hippy, fun in the sun attitude. \*Never My Love \*was a great song with great harmonies and IMHO is the song the Association should be remembered for. > > _Cherish_, by contrast, is a self-pitying, “I looooooove you so MUCH” adolescent crush – with a rhyming dictionary. [Bolding mine] Actually, the lyrics are “And Windy has stormy eyes, that flash AT the sound of lies” so the hippy, fun in the sun attitude is still there! ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/24 "2011-07-26T16:54:09Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Hey guys, did you know that actors make up the words in movies as they go along! That’s why they seem so real! > > That’s the same as rock groups! They make up all the lyrics too so there’s never a need to compliment the actual writer when you talk about lyrics! > > Or you could remember that “Along Comes Mary” was written by [Tanden Almer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandyn_Almer), not the Association. > > And it could be a California vs. New York thing, but I never once heard a real live human being refer to marijuana as Mary Jane or any derivative of that name. Other than this song, a reference to Mary was just a reference to a girl. And there are thousands of songs to Mary that have nothing to do with pot. So wait…it’s \*not \*an homage to marijuana? I just laid my ignorant soul bare for no reason? Well, I don’t know if I feel better or worse now. Would I appear any less stoopid if I said I never knew the words until I read the OP? I can definitely see why one would think it’s a drug reference. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/25 "2011-07-26T17:00:03Z")
Look, it’s (technically) a rock song, so it has to be about either drugs or blowjobs. Or lack of either. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/26 "2011-07-26T18:01:50Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > So wait…it’s \*not \*an homage to marijuana? I just laid my ignorant soul bare for no reason? Well, I don’t know if I feel better or worse now. Would I appear any less stoopid if I said I never knew the words until I read the OP? I can definitely see why one would think it’s a drug reference. I said “other than this song.” Meaning that this song was a deliberate drug reference. It’s songs like [The Wind Cries Mary](http://www.metrolyrics.com/the-wind-cries-mary-lyrics-jimi-hendrix.html) that I doubt are about marijuana. Read those lyrics and try to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/27 "2011-07-26T18:54:21Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Hey guys, did you know that actors make up the words in movies as they go along! That’s why they seem so real! > > That’s the same as rock groups! They make up all the lyrics too so there’s never a need to compliment the actual writer when you talk about lyrics! > > Or you could remember that “Along Comes Mary” was written by [Tanden Almer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandyn_Almer), not the Association. > > And it could be a California vs. New York thing, but I never once heard a real live human being refer to marijuana as Mary Jane or any derivative of that name. Other than this song, a reference to Mary was just a reference to a girl. And there are thousands of songs to Mary that have nothing to do with pot. **Exapno Mapcase** - Perhaps I missed it but I don’t believe anyone has said that _The Association_ wrote the lyrics. I knew better when I posted the thread. **WOOKINPANUB** - I saw a clip somewhere on Youtube of the recorder guy saying some years later that at least some parts of the song related to marijuana. **twickster** - Sorry. I may have been around a long time, but I don’t spend all that much time in CS. I was aware of the restriction on quoting lengthy passages from books and articles but had no idea that it also applied to song lyrics, mostly, I suppose, because when you put them all together they come to lots fewer words than many of the article and cite quotes I see posted all the time. My apologies. The offense wasn’t intentional. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/28 "2011-07-26T20:05:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > **Exapno Mapcase** - Perhaps I missed it but I don’t believe anyone has said that _The Association_ wrote the lyrics. I knew better when I posted the thread. It’s just that nobody mentioned the actual writer in a thread about lyrics. A Pet Peeve. > [@](#): > > **twickster** - Sorry. I may have been around a long time, but I don’t spend all that much time in CS. I was aware of the restriction on quoting lengthy passages from books and articles but had no idea that it also applied to song lyrics, mostly, I suppose, because when you put them all together they come to lots fewer words than many of the article and cite quotes I see posted all the time. My apologies. The offense wasn’t intentional. The number of words is never a criterion for copyright violation. The standard has no numeric quantity at all.\* All the excerpt has to be is a substantial taking, with substantial nowhere defined. However, song lyrics are generally so short that anything more than a verse is considered substantial, and even a line or two can get you into trouble. (Publishers’ lawyers won’t let you quote even that much. When asked about case law that forbids it they’ll change the subject. But you still won’t be allowed to quote.) Quoting the entirety of the lyrics (except for the odd special case like Tequila) is never acceptable. \*You will see postings all over the internet saying that 10% is okay or similar numbers. Totally bogus. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/29 "2011-07-26T20:22:24Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It’s just that nobody mentioned the actual writer in a thread about lyrics. A Pet Peeve. Fair enough. It’s a cool song with what I think is really great word play. The writer certainly deserves credit, and in hindsight I should probably have acknowledged him in the OP. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The number of words is never a criterion for copyright violation. The standard has no numeric quantity at all.\* All the excerpt has to be is a substantial taking, with substantial nowhere defined. However, song lyrics are generally so short that anything more than a verse is considered substantial, and even a line or two can get you into trouble. (Publishers’ lawyers won’t let you quote even that much. When asked about case law that forbids it they’ll change the subject. But you still won’t be allowed to quote.) Quoting the entirety of the lyrics (except for the odd special case like Tequila) is never acceptable. > \*You will see postings all over the internet saying that 10% is okay or similar numbers. Totally bogus. Fair enough as well. I would have thought that since anybody is free to sing a song - which they are - then they would also be free to speak the words in conversation. And like I said, I thought length would make it okay too. So ignorance fought. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/30 "2011-07-27T02:05:08Z")
> [@Bumbershoot](#): > > [Bolding mine] > > Actually, the lyrics are “And Windy has stormy eyes, that flash AT the sound of lies” so the hippy, fun in the sun attitude is still there! I always pictured her as a girl who was pretty, youthful and exuberant, but also not one to tolerate any bullshit. For some women this is a function of their attractiveness to begin with - their looks assure them of an ample social and romantic life anyway, so they don’t feel as much of a compulsion to put up with things like dishonesty. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/31 "2011-07-27T02:09:57Z")
I heard a radio guy once say that Windy was not really written about a girl (despite being referred to as “she” in the song), but actually about a hippie guy friend of the group. Dunno if it’s true, though. And it’s possible at this point, even the songwriter doesn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/32 "2011-07-27T02:54:07Z")
Well, as it happens I was reading up on this very issue just last night. The song was written by a woman named Ruthann Friedman, who according to Wiki had this to say on the subject: > [@](#): > > "There are many explanations of who Windy actually was in Ruthann’s life. She would have you know, she being me, Ruthann Friedman, that none of them are true. Windy was indeed a female and purely a fictitious character who popped into my head one fine day in 1967… > > During the recording session the Association members, sure that they were in the middle of recording a hit, called the song writer, me again, in to sing on the fade at the end. I can be heard singing a blues harmony as the song fades out…" [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windy) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/33 "2011-07-27T06:03:30Z")
Did you know the Mary Tyler Moore show was all about marijuana? Thai stick in particular. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/34 "2011-07-27T06:58:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s a cool song with what I think is really great word play. Curious, what’s your take on what it’s about? I agree it’s a cool song but I’m missing the word play. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/35 "2011-07-27T08:31:02Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Curious, what’s your take on what it’s about? I agree it’s a cool song but I’m missing the word play. Mostly the wordplay is found in the rapid-fire rhyming of words and sounds within the lines of the verse. (“only”/"lonely; “time”/“rhyme”; “verse”/“curse”; "kicks/“chick”/“pick”, or the repeating “s” sounds in “gassed and flacid kids are flung across the stars”.) It comes into play also in the mix of rhyming and phrasing, such as the line wondering “Or will their waking eyes/ reflect the lies/ and make them realize/ their urgent cries for sight no more”. It says a lot in few words and is phrased in an unusual, dramatic and interesting way. And of course when you look at the words within the context of the mellowing or other effects of smoking dope, which is what even some of of the band’s members have admitted the song is about, the cleverness of the phrasing becomes even clearer. If you look up the full lyrics on the internet and read along while the song plays, I think you’ll get a better understanding of what I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/36 "2011-07-27T17:12:05Z")
**Starving Artist** , I want to thank you for this thread. Because of it I went and learned how to play “Never My Love” on guitar last night. Rock on (or at least sway melodically)! ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/37 "2011-07-27T17:52:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Mostly the wordplay is found in the rapid-fire rhyming of words and sounds within the lines of the verse. (“only”/"lonely; “time”/“rhyme”; “verse”/“curse”; "kicks/“chick”/“pick”, or the repeating “s” sounds in “gassed and flacid kids are flung across the stars”.) > > It comes into play also in the mix of rhyming and phrasing, such as the line wondering “Or will their waking eyes/ reflect the lies/ and make them realize/ their urgent cries for sight no more”. It says a lot in few words and is phrased in an unusual, dramatic and interesting way. > > And of course when you look at the words within the context of the mellowing or other effects of smoking dope, which is what even some of of the band’s members have admitted the song is about, the cleverness of the phrasing becomes even clearer. > > If you look up the full lyrics on the internet and read along while the song plays, I think you’ll get a better understanding of what I’m talking about. Oh OK, I see that now. Between that and the tempo (or pacing) changes it makes for a very unique song. I still can’t figure out if it’s about a very special girl or a drug. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/38 "2011-07-27T18:26:54Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Hey guys, did you know that actors make up the words in movies as they go along! That’s why they seem so real! > > That’s the same as rock groups! They make up all the lyrics too so there’s never a need to compliment the actual writer when you talk about lyrics! > > Or you could remember that “Along Comes Mary” was written by [Tanden Almer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandyn_Almer), not the Association. > > And it could be a California vs. New York thing, but I never once heard a real live human being refer to marijuana as Mary Jane or any derivative of that name. Other than this song, a reference to Mary was just a reference to a girl. And there are thousands of songs to Mary that have nothing to do with pot. My pet peeve: When someone gets worked into a lather about authorship, then fails to actually spell said author’s name correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/39 "2011-07-27T19:22:10Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > My pet peeve: When someone gets worked into a lather about authorship, then fails to actually spell said author’s name correctly. Gaudere has to have something to do or else boredom sets in. It’s a pet peeve of mine too so I’m suitably embarrassed. Though you should have seen the first twelve versions. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352/40 "2011-07-27T19:44:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And of course when you look at the words within the context of the mellowing or other effects of smoking dope, which is what even some of of the band’s members have admitted the song is about, the cleverness of the phrasing becomes even clearer. Of course, as noted by **Exapno Mapcase** , the band didn’t write the song - so their feelings about what it is about are not particularly more relevant than any listener (who, of course, is free to derive whatever meaning he wants). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-association-along-comes-mary/590352.md?page=3)