# The Atlantic- The Last Temptation- Evangelicals in the Age of Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517 "2018-03-13T21:43:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bassman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bassman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bassman)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/1 "2018-03-13T21:43:50Z")
Former Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson [wrote an lengthy article in the Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/04/the-last-temptation/554066/) criticizing the embrace of President Donald Trump by a substantial majority of white evangelicals. I found this very interesting and wanted to share it on here and start a discussion on the intersection of religion, politics and society in the United States. Here are a couple of things I’d like to throw out there to start this discussion: The article contrasts Catholic social teaching with modern evangelical Protestant political engagement. Catholic social teaching has heavily influenced a political perspective called Christian democracy, which is common in Europe and Latin America and not limited to Catholics. In Germany, for example, Chancellor Angela Merkel, a Lutheran, is the head of the Christian Democratic Union. In general, it is considered a center-right in the European context. Could this type of politics have appeal in the U.S.? Was former President George W. Bush’s “compassionate conservatism” (pre-9/11) an example of an attempt to bring Christian democratic principles America? Might Christian democracy find a home in the Democratic party? As Gerson notes, many black Protestants have similar religious convictions as white evangelicals but vote more heavily Democratic than white evangelicals vote Republican. IMO, the ascent of Trump and the GOP’s (at least) tolerance of racism reveals a lot of the reason why going back to the Southern Strategy, etc. But the point remains, that doctrine is not the only factor. Religion is a communal endeavor and how doctrine plays out in the real world is affected by the religious community. Finally, Gerson notes that mainline Protestantism has declined in recent decades, much more than evangelicalism. What effects might the decline of the mainline be having on American politics? In a slightly tongue-in-cheek column last Easter, New York Times columnist Ross Douthat [argues it would be better for secular post-Protestant liberals to pack mainline churches](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/15/opinion/sunday/save-the-mainline.html) as it would prevent what he views as the excesses of American left-liberalism. While far-fetched, I’d be interested in discussing how this would affect our civic life if it occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/2 "2018-03-13T23:37:20Z")
Writing a whole article about evangelicals and the Trump administration without mentioning Pence seems omissive. And his suggestion that evangelicals should not obsess about abortion because it’s impossible that Roe v. Wade could be overturned strikes me as incorrect. Control of Supreme Court nominations for the next however many years was a huge reason many conservatives who dislike Trump nonetheless voted for him. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/3 "2018-03-14T00:25:08Z")
> [@Bassman](#): > > Could this type of politics have appeal in the U.S.? Was former President George W. Bush’s “compassionate conservatism” (pre-9/11) an example of an attempt to bring Christian democratic principles America? Might Christian democracy find a home in the Democratic party? I read the article, but I’m not totally sure what “Christian democratic principles” means. The vast majority of Democratic politicians are Christian, and while the numbers are dropping, a majority of Democratic voters are too. If “Christian Democratic Principles” means “Christianity, but the kind that cares about the poor and the sick and the downtrodden”, isn’t that the Democratic Party already? > [@](#): > > In a slightly tongue-in-cheek column last Easter, New York Times columnist Ross Douthat [argues it would be better for secular post-Protestant liberals to pack mainline churches](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/15/opinion/sunday/save-the-mainline.html) as it would prevent what he views as the excesses of American left-liberalism. While far-fetched, I’d be interested in discussing how this would affect our civic life if it occurred. I can’t imagine how this might work. Post-Protestants aren’t going to church because they don’t believe in God or organized religion any more. Even if they agree that there’s a hole left in our civic participation in the absence of church (this atheist does mostly agree with that theory), are they really going to try to fill it by joining an organization they don’t believe in? I think (but am open to being shown otherwise) that people who still believe in God by and large don’t leave church for good when they disagree with doctrine, they find a church they agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/4 "2018-03-14T02:22:36Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > I read the article, but I’m not totally sure what “Christian democratic principles” means. The vast majority of Democratic politicians are Christian, and while the numbers are dropping, a majority of Democratic voters are too. If “Christian Democratic Principles” means “Christianity, but the kind that cares about the poor and the sick and the downtrodden”, isn’t that the Democratic Party already? No. Not really at all. Most Democratic politicians are Christian, but that doesn’t mean the Democratic party is Christian Democracy. Christian Democracy is an actual movement, mostly in Europe and Latin America, that’s based on various strains of Christian social justice teaching, and neither major party in the US really embraces it. The closest thing America has to a Christian Democratic party is something like this: > **[American Solidarity Party](https://www.solidarity-party.org/)** > > The American Solidarity Party is a Christian democratic party promoting human life, social justice, environmental conservation, and international peace. From their platform: > [@](#): > > We are a party that seeks the common good, on common ground, through common sense. We believe in the sanctity of human life, the necessity of social justice, our responsibility to care for the environment, and promotion of a more peaceful world. We cherish the individual rights and separation of government powers protected by the U.S. Constitution, and recognize the need for social supports and community cohesion as modeled by a number of European governments or movements. We seek to bridge the bitter partisan divide with principled and respectful policies and dialog. > > We believe that public policies should advance these essential principles: > > We must build a culture and enact laws upholding the equal, innate and inviolable dignity and rights of every human person from conception to natural death. > > We have an obligation to care for our neighbor, and especially to defend those who are most vulnerable. We believe that ensuring every person has access to essentials such as food, shelter, education and healthcare is an achievable goal in our society. > > We believe that family, local communities, and voluntary associations are the first guarantors of human dignity, and cultivate mutual care. National institutions and policies should support, not supplant them. > > We must share and protect natural resources and the environment, as held in trust for the benefit of all inhabitants of the world, present and future. > > We believe that violence should only be used as a last resort for addressing conflict within our communities and throughout the world. ---
**Author:** ![Bassman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bassman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bassman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/5 "2018-03-14T16:57:44Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No. Not really at all. Most Democratic politicians are Christian, but that doesn’t mean the Democratic party is Christian Democracy. Christian Democracy is an actual movement, mostly in Europe and Latin America, that’s based on various strains of Christian social justice teaching, and neither major party in the US really embraces it. The closest thing America has to a Christian Democratic party is something like this: > > [https://solidarity-party.org/](https://solidarity-party.org/) > > From their platform: Yes! This is what I’m getting at. I’ve been exploring Christian democracy because I’ve become disenchanted with what I perceive as a lack of a vision of the common good in American politics. The right has gone completely batshit insane and hyper-tribalistic. The Democrats are much better, but I worry that they’re going to move too far to the left and that they’ve lost a vision of the common good as a result of embracing identity politics. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/6 "2018-03-14T17:04:49Z")
> [@Bassman](#): > > The Democrats are much better, but I worry that they’re going to move too far to the left … How have democrats moved too far to the left? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/7 "2018-03-14T17:10:34Z")
Before the Democrats can move too far to the left, they first have to stop moving to the right. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/8 "2018-03-14T17:13:06Z")
Thanks **Captain Amazing** for the explanation. Is there anything particularly Christian about it? I’m a moderate atheist and I agree with basically all of those principles, except the “from conception” part and maybe the “natural death” part, depending on exactly what that means. Which is to say: I think both abortion and suicide (assisted or otherwise) are morally very problematic, but I don’t think there are good legislative solutions to the issues there. My impression is that many atheist humanists would agree with it with the same caveats, as would most Democratic voters. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/9 "2018-03-14T18:24:21Z")
I should think most voters for European nominally “Christian democrat” parties are also atheists. In their foundation, primarily in the aftermath of W W2, they were a reaction from the much more rigidly confessional parties that tended to precede them and against both the strict free-traders and fiscal conservatives on the one hand, and doctrinaire socialists (and particularly communists) on the other. They tended to come from the professional middle classes rather than either the working class or big business circles, and appealed to broadly conservative-minded people who recoiled from where the causes identified with the prewar conservative and confessional parties had taken them. Which is not to say they didn’t become part of the establishment and cosy up to big business interests fairly quickly. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/10 "2018-03-14T18:30:07Z")
The article implies that to some “Christians,” human misery and oppression are to be celebrated — they remind us of the Rapture which awaits: > [@](#): > > In reacting against the Social Gospel, [Fundamentalism] came to regard the whole concept of social justice as a dangerous liberal idea. This last point constituted what some scholars have called the “Great Reversal,” which took place from about 1900 to 1930. “All progressive social concern,” Marsden writes, “whether political or private, became suspect among revivalist evangelicals and was relegated to a very minor role.” > … In this view, the current age is tending not toward progress, but rather toward decadence and chaos under the influence of Satan. A new and better age will not be inaugurated until the Second Coming of Christ, who is the only one capable of cleaning up the mess. No amount of human effort can hasten that day, or ultimately save a doomed world. For this reason, social activism was deemed irrelevant to the most essential task: the work of preparing oneself, and helping others prepare, for final judgment. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How have democrats moved too far to the left? I’m also interested in how **Bassman** answers this question. Until he does, we can guess: The Democrats force bakers to make wedding cakes at gunpoint. The Democrats have supported subsidies for renewable energy. The Democrats want to allow left-wing musicians to marry their cellos. Any more left-wing than this, they’d be putting a hammer and sickle on the flag. ---
**Author:** ![Bassman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bassman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bassman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/11 "2018-03-14T19:09:13Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > T > I’m also interested in how **Bassman** answers this question. Until he does, we can guess: > The Democrats force bakers to make wedding cakes at gunpoint. > The Democrats have supported subsidies for renewable energy. > The Democrats want to allow left-wing musicians to marry their cellos. > Any more left-wing than this, they’d be putting a hammer and sickle on the flag. You have to wait no longer. I disagree with some of the more left-wing economic proposals that are becoming within the Democratic Party. For example: I think a $15 minimum wage is too high. I don’t support single-payer healthcare, but rather universal catastrophic care [along the lines of the Hagopian-Goldman plan](https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-health-insurance-solution). On social issues, I have serious problems with elective abortion. While I personally do not support outlawing early-term elective abortions, I disagree with making a pro-choice view a purity test. I agree with social conservatives that strong families are an important building block of society. We have a major problem in this country, particularly in the lower socioeconomic classes, with family instability. Unlike most social conservatives, however, I support same-sex marriage and gay rights. I’m very concerned about the declines in social trust and social capital in the United States, as documented by researchers like Robert Putnam. This one cuts across party lines, but I am very supportive of free trade. On the left of the Democrats, there’s a significant amount of trade skepticism. However, we should do a better job of assisting those in import-competing industries who are negatively affected by trade. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/12 "2018-03-14T19:13:39Z")
I’d be interested in hearing what non-social conservative advocates against “strong families”. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/13 "2018-03-14T19:17:26Z")
> [@Bassman](#): > > I disagree with making a pro-choice view a purity test. What does this mean? (really asking…I do not know) ---
**Author:** ![Bassman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bassman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bassman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/14 "2018-03-14T19:43:11Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > I’d be interested in hearing what non-social conservative advocates against “strong families”. No one in the mainstream of American politics actually does, not did I say anyone does. But, I’m going to use an example used by the political philosopher Patrick J. Deneen in his new book _Why Liberalism Failed_\*. He suggests that unrestrained progressive liberalism undermines institutions including the family without necessarily intending to. Deneen argues that in its quest for radical individual autonomy, liberalism tends to strip the individual from any context, society, and any unchosen relationship. He gives the example of former President Barack Obama’s 2012 re-election campaign web ad “The Life of Julia”. The[ad featured a woman named Julia as she went through life](https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/oh-julia-from-birth-to-death-left-and-right) benefiting from various government programs. She’s on her own except when she has her son, Zachary, (no father!). Deneen argues liberalism reduces the number of ontological realities to the individual and the state, weakening non-governmental institutions like the family. \*By “liberalism” Deneen means not just progressive liberalism, but rather uses liberalism in its broad sense, including mush or what we consider conservatism. ---
**Author:** ![Bassman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bassman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bassman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/15 "2018-03-14T19:45:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What does this mean? (really asking…I do not know) Sure. I think the Democratic Party should be open to running candidates who do not support a right to legal abortion. ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/16 "2018-03-14T20:23:42Z")
> [@Bassman](#): > > You have to wait no longer. I disagree with some of the more left-wing economic proposals that are becoming within the Democratic Party. For example: I think a $15 minimum wage is too high. I don’t support single-payer healthcare, but rather universal catastrophic care [along the lines of the Hagopian-Goldman plan](https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-health-insurance-solution). > > On social issues, I have serious problems with elective abortion. While I personally do not support outlawing early-term elective abortions, I disagree with making a pro-choice view a purity test. I agree with social conservatives that strong families are an important building block of society. We have a major problem in this country, particularly in the lower socioeconomic classes, with family instability. Unlike most social conservatives, however, I support same-sex marriage and gay rights. I’m very concerned about the declines in social trust and social capital in the United States, as documented by researchers like Robert Putnam. > > This one cuts across party lines, but I am very supportive of free trade. On the left of the Democrats, there’s a significant amount of trade skepticism. However, we should do a better job of assisting those in import-competing industries who are negatively affected by trade. Surely a single payer healthcare system could be formed in a way to be attractive to ALL Americans. It’s a solution that certainly matches new testament concerns for caring for each other. It’s demonstrated to be lower cost, yet effective by every other industrialized nation. It’s not novel or extreme as it’s broadly used, so we don’t have to start from scratch. It’s sure to significantly lower what remains as a significant reason for bankruptcy. It frees corporations from all requirements to design, administer or otherwise provide healthcare - a big deal, especially for smaller corporations. People are more productive when their health is maintained. We all live our lives at all ages, we all face the risk of costly disease, and when people can’t pay they land on our social services anyway, so the claim that one is healthy or young now isn’t significant. We still need a system that covers us and others through all phases of life. The thing about abortions is that EVERY AMERICAN is interested in there being fewer abortions. The problem comes in when the method of accomplishing that is laws against women. There ARE other ways to reduce abortions. We should be working on ways to reduce abortion by means other than laws against women. We SHOULD all be on the same side of this issue rather than marking time with partisan political fights over these legal restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/17 "2018-03-14T20:32:11Z")
> [@Bassman](#): > > You have to wait no longer. I disagree with some of the more left-wing economic proposals that are becoming within the Democratic Party. For example: I think a $15 minimum wage is too high. I don’t support single-payer healthcare, but rather universal catastrophic care [along the lines of the Hagopian-Goldman plan](https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-health-insurance-solution). > > On social issues, I have serious problems with elective abortion. While I personally do not support outlawing early-term elective abortions, I disagree with making a pro-choice view a purity test. I agree with social conservatives that strong families are an important building block of society. We have a major problem in this country, particularly in the lower socioeconomic classes, with family instability. Unlike most social conservatives, however, I support same-sex marriage and gay rights. I’m very concerned about the declines in social trust and social capital in the United States, as documented by researchers like Robert Putnam. > > This one cuts across party lines, but I am very supportive of free trade. On the left of the Democrats, there’s a significant amount of trade skepticism. However, we should do a better job of assisting those in import-competing industries who are negatively affected by trade. There can’t be one minimum wage for all America. The cost of living in some places is just dramatically different than it is in other places. Seattle is noted for moving to $15 minimum and the state is also considering raises in the minimum wage for the rest of the state. But, it will be less than that of Seattle. This is something that needs to be regulated more locally. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/18 "2018-03-14T20:35:35Z")
> [@WillReadmore](#): > > The thing about abortions is that EVERY AMERICAN is interested in there being fewer abortions. I’m not, and I am an American. I don’t claim to know what the correct number of abortions is for any given year. It’s possible that our society would be better off if there were more abortions. If you think you know how many there ought to be, can you tell us how you came to your conclusion? Also, considering how often we hear about the problems in some regions that women face in getting access to abortions, it would appear that lots of people think there should be more abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/19 "2018-03-14T20:44:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m not, and I am an American. I don’t claim to know what the correct number of abortions is for any given year. It’s possible that our society would be better off if there were more abortions. Possible miscommunication here? I am not **WillReadmore** and cannot speak for yadda yadda yadda,\* but I interpreted his remark as just meaning that since an abortion is almost always about terminating an unwanted pregnancy,\*\* and since unwanted pregnancies are by definition something that people don’t want, we would all prefer fewer unwanted pregnancies and consequently fewer abortions. That doesn’t contradict the point you appear to be making about not necessarily wanting to reduce the **proportion of abortions to unwanted pregnancies** , a point on which I agree with you. - Can we have “IAN [username] ACSFH” as a new SDMB acronym? I get tired of typing it out but need some way of making it clear that I’m not just trying to impose my interpretation on the other poster’s possibly different intention. - The very rare late-term abortions generally involve a wanted pregnancy that’s gone wrong in some way with catastrophic consequences for the fetus or potentially the mother’s health, but these form a tiny minority of all abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Bassman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bassman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bassman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517/20 "2018-03-14T20:45:23Z")
> [@WillReadmore](#): > > Surely a single payer healthcare system could be formed in a way to be attractive to ALL Americans. It’s a solution that certainly matches new testament concerns for caring for each other. It’s demonstrated to be lower cost, yet effective by every other industrialized nation. It’s not novel or extreme as it’s broadly used, so we don’t have to start from scratch. It’s sure to significantly lower what remains as a significant reason for bankruptcy. It frees corporations from all requirements to design, administer or otherwise provide healthcare - a big deal, especially for smaller corporations. People are more productive when their health is maintained. We all live our lives at all ages, we all face the risk of costly disease, and when people can’t pay they land on our social services anyway, so the claim that one is healthy or young now isn’t significant. We still need a system that covers us and others through all phases of life. I agree that universal health coverage is important and is something we can and should have, but I disagree that a single-payer system is the best way to achieve that. I’m going to refer you to [this article by Dana Goldman](https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/12/bernie-sanders-plan-universal-health-care-half-right/) that I think gives good reasons to do a universal catastrophic system as opposed a single-payer system. We can do better than single-payer at a cost less than the ACA. > [@](#): > > The thing about abortions is that EVERY AMERICAN is interested in there being fewer abortions. The problem comes in when the method of accomplishing that is laws against women. There ARE other ways to reduce abortions. > > We should be working on ways to reduce abortion by means other than laws against women. We SHOULD all be on the same side of this issue rather than marking time with partisan political fights over these legal restrictions. I basically agree with you, although perhaps I’m more sympathetic to opponents of legal abortion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-atlantic-the-last-temptation-evangelicals-in-the-age-of-trump/810517.md?page=2)