# The attitude Democrats need to adopt. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 14, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950 "2018-10-14T21:36:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/41 "2018-10-15T19:11:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You’re the ones who aren’t counting correctly. You’re locked in your Real American mentality. When you imagine the people who live in this country, you only picture people who look like you and forget about all the rest. > > But here’s the reality: there are over 326,000,000 people in this country. And 163,000,000 of them are women. So we can safely assume that there are over a hundred million women who are old enough to vote. But (many of them) don’t. Which makes Shodan right. There aren’t 100 million women voters. This seems like a silly hill to die on, when you could just say you meant “100 million women eligible to vote.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/42 "2018-10-15T19:15:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > … Is there anyone with a history of sexual assault who will be running? Spartacus ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/43 "2018-10-15T20:12:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You can start yelling “Bill Clinton!” now. And you’re right. He probably couldn’t get elected in 2018 or 2020. But he isn’t running for office, is he? Is there anyone with a history of sexual assault who will be running? Corey Booker’s name seems to get floated around a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/44 "2018-10-15T20:46:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You’re right, Shodan, we went “low” - we’ve gone on record as being opposed to sex criminals. And you guys have gone on record as supporting sex criminals. Now let’s see which position is preferred by the voters. There is not really, in my opinion, a huge difference between that and supporting sexual abusers. I get that there is a distinction between abuse and something criminal, but I still don’t really see a strong foundation for claims of moral superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/45 "2018-10-15T20:55:16Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > But (many of them) don’t. Which makes Shodan right. There aren’t 100 million women voters. > > This seems like a silly hill to die on, when you could just say you meant “100 million women eligible to vote.” But the Republicans don’t have some huge base to fall back on. They’re already a minority party that came in second place in six of the last seven presidential elections (and it may have been seven out of seven). And the numbers in off-year elections are similar. This is why the Republicans are putting so much effort into voter suppression; they know they can’t win an honest election and haven’t been able to for a couple of decades. So they need to make sure that honest elections don’t happen. That’s my concern for November; not whether the Republicans will actually win but whether they’ll be able to cheat enough to claim they won. This is why women are a key factor is this election. Republicans already know they’re going to lose with other groups and have made sure to suppress the votes from those groups. But they may not be looking at women voters; they may still think that their women will do what they’re told. So that’s a voter base they may not have adequately suppressed. So to get back to the numbers, there are over a hundred million potential women voters in this country. But it won’t take a hundred million women actually voting to change things. It won’t even take ten million. It might only take as few as a million women switching parties to change the outcome of this election. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/46 "2018-10-15T21:54:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So to get back to the numbers, there are over a hundred million potential women voters in this country. But it won’t take a hundred million women actually voting to change things. It won’t even take ten million. It might only take as few as a million women switching parties to change the outcome of this election. I am not in disagreement. However, it’s going to be difficult to paint the women’s vote as one predictable bloc. Sure, the left-leaning women are rightly outraged at this administration, but there are still many women who are not, and are good with the way things are going. You cannot assume all women will vote as a bloc. For every woman pissed-off and going to vote D all down the ballot, there will be another one voting all R. I think it will come down to which side will have higher turnout. As with everything, it will come down to the middle voters, and the Kavanaugh kerfuffle is not the only thing on women’s minds (it has also motivated conservative voters across the board). Democrats should not put all their righteous eggs in one basket, or they will be disappointed, again. They need to appeal to a broad spectrum of voters who are thinking about other issues. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/47 "2018-10-15T22:03:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You’re right, Shodan, we went “low” - we’ve gone on record as being opposed to sex criminals. And you guys have gone on record as supporting sex criminals. Now let’s see which position is preferred by the voters. The Democrats went low claiming that an accusation is as good as a conviction. The Republicans went high on the standard of innocent until proven guilty. I’d like to think the voters will choose based on that standard. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/48 "2018-10-15T22:28:05Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > The Democrats went low claiming that an accusation is as good as a conviction. > The Republicans went high on the standard of innocent until proven guilty. Neither of these statements is true. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/49 "2018-10-15T22:47:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Democrats went low with the Kavanaugh hearings - how’d that work out for you? If by went low, you mean “pointing out that the nominee for SCOTUS was a dissembling partisan hack with a drinking problem and breathtaking anger-management issues,” yeah, not as well as it should have. But thanks for asking. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/50 "2018-10-15T22:53:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s going to be a tough sell, with unemployment at a 20-year low, wages growing, manufacturing growing, and general prosperity. Only the first of these is mainly true. Wages, when matched up to the cost of living, have not grown significantly since the eighties. Where precisely is manufacturing “growing” (at least within the continental U.S.)? And it’s hard to call it “general prosperity” since the middle class for all intents and purposes no longer exists and nearly everyone below the top 10% have to work two jobs to make ends meet. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2018, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/51 "2018-10-15T23:12:11Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > … Where precisely is manufacturing “growing” (at least within the continental U.S.)? … [CNBC: Job gains for the manufacturing industry in the last 12 months are the most since 1995](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/03/job-gains-for-the-manufacturing-industry-are-the-most-since-1995.html) [MarketWatch: Manufacturing jobs growing at fastest rate in 23 years](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-manufacturing-jobs-growth-has-been-so-strong-2018-08-03) [Business Insider: The US manufacturing job market hasn’t been this strong in over 20 years](https://www.businessinsider.com/jobs-report-july-manufacturing-job-growth-highest-since-1995-2018-8) ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/52 "2018-10-16T00:54:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [CNBC: Job gains for the manufacturing industry in the last 12 months are the most since 1995](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/03/job-gains-for-the-manufacturing-industry-are-the-most-since-1995.html) From your link: > [@](#): > > But while job growth has been strong lately, the total number of manufacturing employees is well off the sector’s heyday, a fraction of what it once was. Stephen Roach, an economics professor at Yale University and former chief economist at Morgan Stanley, told CNBC that despite the political focus on manufacturing, its role in the American economy continues to wane. > > Manufacturing payrolls, Roach said, comprise only 8.5 percent of the U.S. total, down from above 30 percent in decades past. > [@](#): > > [MarketWatch: Manufacturing jobs growing at fastest rate in 23 years](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-manufacturing-jobs-growth-has-been-so-strong-2018-08-03) From here: > [@](#): > > Muro put it this way: “The irony here is that just when things have gotten on a roll, a set of self-inflicted wounds—such as trade uncertainties and regulatory uncertainties on emissions—may introduce new headwinds.” > > Those headwinds may be starting to show up, below the headlines but slowly and surely, in some economic data. The ISM manufacturing index for July stumbled, although it remained at a high level, with many survey respondents pointing to tariff uncertainties. > [@](#): > > [Business Insider: The US manufacturing job market hasn’t been this strong in over 20 years](https://www.businessinsider.com/jobs-report-july-manufacturing-job-growth-highest-since-1995-2018-8) As above… > [@](#): > > While growth has been strong, the overall number of manufacturing employees still remains well below the sector’s peak in the late 1970s. And productivity growth, or the amount of output a worker can produce in an hour, remains historically sluggish. Increased productivity is the major contributor to wage growth and increased standards of living. While an improvement of sorts, it’s not the rosy outcome that some might try to make it out to be. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/53 "2018-10-16T11:05:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [CNBC: Job gains for the manufacturing industry in the last 12 months are the most since 1995](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/03/job-gains-for-the-manufacturing-industry-are-the-most-since-1995.html) > > [MarketWatch: Manufacturing jobs growing at fastest rate in 23 years](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-manufacturing-jobs-growth-has-been-so-strong-2018-08-03) > > [Business Insider: The US manufacturing job market hasn’t been this strong in over 20 years](https://www.businessinsider.com/jobs-report-july-manufacturing-job-growth-highest-since-1995-2018-8) **Thanks, President Obama!** ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/54 "2018-10-16T14:59:36Z")
That’s kind of what I meant by a tough sell - “the economy isn’t really doing all that well, **and** it is because of Obama”. So I should vote for Obama, who isn’t running, and for people who will continue his policies, even though the economy isn’t really doing all that well. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/55 "2018-10-16T15:08:03Z")
Guys, you know the maxim about wrestling with a pig? It applies to **Shodan** s as well. It doesn’t matter if his claims don’t make sense or the cites he posts are inconsistent with his position; he’s just going to keep arguing nonetheless because he likes rolling around in shit. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/56 "2018-10-16T15:17:05Z")
I would be more than happy to vote for any moderate Democrat who isn’t a hypocrite, doesn’t want to shout down or physically oppress opinions they don’t agree with, and supports the 2nd amendment. That seems to be a very rare thing unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/57 "2018-10-16T16:10:33Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Guys, you know the maxim about wrestling with a pig? It applies to **Shodan** s as well. It doesn’t matter if his claims don’t make sense or the cites he posts are inconsistent with his position; he’s just going to keep arguing nonetheless because he likes rolling around in shit. > > Stranger Very clever way of calling **Shodan** a pig. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/58 "2018-10-16T17:12:20Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > If by went low, you mean “pointing out that the nominee for SCOTUS was a dissembling partisan hack **with a drinking problem** and breathtaking anger-management issues,” yeah, not as well as it should have. But thanks for asking. :rolleyes: [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/us/politics/kavanaugh-drinking-yale-high-school.html) > [@](#): > > **No evidence has emerged** to indicate that the episodes of drinking ascribed to Judge Kavanaugh back then carried forward into his professional or family life, or that the handful of F.B.I. background checks he has faced in his official Washington career unearthed any red flags about his drinking as an adult. Have there been any noteworthy reports of anger other than at the hearing? I spent a few minutes searching but didn’t find any. If you know of any, please share. Seriously, if you were Republican you’d be a birther. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/59 "2018-10-16T17:19:55Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Very clever way of calling **Shodan** a pig. I did nothing of the kind. I’m just making the observation that **Shodan** is arguing for the sake of argument and does not care whether his claims or statements are intenally consistent or actually backed up by the cites he provides. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950/60 "2018-10-16T18:06:54Z")
All I know is that I am 44 and my wife is 37 and we have become so fed up with the current administration, it’s lies, and it’s policies that we have for the first time in our lives registered to vote and will both be at the polls on 11/6. I know we can’t be the only ones. If things have gotten to the point of actually having _me_ take action, there have got to be others who are even more frustrated, embarrassed, and frankly pissed off, over what has happened the past 2 years and are going to do what they can to mitigate for now, and eventually stop the disaster unfolding in DC. I hear the same from a surprisingly large number of Texans throughout the day; either at work, or the store, or anywhere really. So, there are some of us out here who have never gotten involved or made any effort to take advantage of the right to vote who will gladly be at the polls to be heard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-attitude-democrats-need-to-adopt/822950.md?page=4)