# The Avengers (movie) - Aliens vs. US Military \*open spoilers\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 15, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812 "2012-10-15T20:24:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/21 "2012-10-16T13:08:14Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I also found the invaders to be a bit lame. The local population could have taken the grunts down with sidearms and cooking utensils, never mind the military. The snake things were another matter though, and would have had everyone running for cover. The average person runs away from danger - a few watch from coffee shop windows - it takes a special breed to run to the danger. I agree that overall our armed forced could have handled the foot soldiers - once on site - we have no idea what was coming thru next. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/22 "2012-10-16T13:29:16Z")
> [@simster](#): > > We have no idea what was coming thru next. It could have been evil-superman! Only he has nukes for arms! I’m not going to invent terrifying badies for the movie. If the creators wanted the alien army to be anything but fragile eye-candy, it’s on them to tell the story. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/23 "2012-10-16T13:56:31Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > “Sorry guys, I know that was lame, but…” I assume he had a good reason? Or did he blame the execs for ruining his movie like he’s apt to do? He ended it that way for the same reason Jackson ended **LotR** the way he did: it worked, cinematically. He could have spent another 30 minutes of the movie chasing down the remnants of the invaders, but the movie was _over_. Books have the luxury of dwelling on things that happen “after.” Movies don’t. And Loki totally expected the attack to make everybody bow to him in fear. He doesn’t know humans as well as he thinks. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/24 "2012-10-16T14:09:40Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > He ended it that way for the same reason Jackson ended **LotR** the way he did: it worked, cinematically. He could have spent another 30 minutes of the movie chasing down the remnants of the invaders, but the movie was _over_. Books have the luxury of dwelling on things that happen “after.” Movies don’t. > > And Loki totally expected the attack to make everybody bow to him in fear. He doesn’t know humans as well as he thinks. I’m going to assume you’re referring to Jackson’s omission of The Scouring of the Shire, rather than the 20-part fake ending extravaganza (which _was_ true to the book but was also somewhat awkward, cinematically). But that’s the thing: something only works cinematically if it doesn’t wrench the viewer out of the movie in disbelief. Jackson’s take on the LotR ending was fine because the part he cut came out cleanly, and he even tossed in a throwaway shot of them coming back to the Shire and getting glared at by that one old hobbit. It was a simple indication that the Shire was fine and the scouring wasn’t happening. A movie doesn’t need to dwell on something like that; a single throwaway line or shot is fine. If there had been a line where Captain America said “Alright, we’ve taken out the brunt of them and the National Guard is cleaning up the rest. With the portal closed, they’ll have an easy time of it.” Something like that would have been just as easy and wouldn’t have been as silly as what we got. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/25 "2012-10-16T14:14:45Z")
> [@simster](#): > > The average person runs away from danger - a few watch from coffee shop windows - it takes a special breed to run to the danger. Sure, but given the number of people in New York and the number of firearms, it would only have taken a small percentage taking pot shots from cover to take a terrible toll on the invaders. They were just cannon fodder, and as such not very dramatic. Which could have been avoided if their armour was shown to be proof (or largely proof) against bullets. Wheldon wanted to show all the Avengers fighting together to emphasize the teamwork arc. There were other ways to do this than have Black Widow swatting them like flies. The snake things were far more impressive. I’m being picky here, but just for once I’d like to see the minions do something clever, rather than just mill about and be mown down. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/26 "2012-10-16T14:21:42Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I’m being picky here, but just for once I’d like to see the minions do something clever, rather than _just mill about and be mown down_. But that’s what minions **do**. It’s in the job description. 😛 **owh** - I agree. A throw-away line or two could have saved the ending from a lot of problems. Or even a shot in the ending news montage of mooks getting taken out by a street gang. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/27 "2012-10-16T14:46:38Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > … > **owh** - I agree. A throw-away line or two could have saved the ending from a lot of problems. Or even a shot in the ending news montage of mooks getting taken out by a street gang. Now THAT would have been awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/28 "2012-10-16T15:16:32Z")
The one thing I wondered about that nobody mentioned (though they did touch on it a little bit in the short film included on the Avengers DVD) is that with all the aliens and eel things down/dead, the military is now in possession of what looks like several thousand tons of some pretty badass alien metal (or whatever their armor is made of). I wonder what they plan to do with it…cleanup will be bad enough, but you don’t just let an opportunity like that go by. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/29 "2012-10-16T15:17:39Z")
Or even just show the skrulls surrendering, recognizing the futility of fighting once the portal was closed and escape/supply/reinforcements are gone. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/30 "2012-10-16T15:35:37Z")
I think some are overvaluing the military’s abilities here. Soldiers aren’t superheros, with a few exceptions. Watch the film, do you think you could even hit one of those skiffs with a rifle? What does the average solider carry, 200 rounds? Then there is getting the soldiers into the theater, they have to come on roads. One of those skiffs could shred an entire convoy without slowing down. Yeah, the individual aliens are vulnerable, but they are physically stronger and more resistant to damage than a human solider, so even person to person they have an advantage. Couple that with a military that’s slow and plodding enough to not be able to deliver water to an American city for weeks, and I’m not holding out a lot of hope for a frontal assault against superior numbers. Also, the Air Force has 6000 aircraft and the Navy has around 4000, how many of those are ready to fly and on the east coast? Say each aircraft could take out ten skiffs, then what? They would be out of fuel and ammo after a day. If the aliens had truly overwhelming numbers it would suck. The dropping dead when the ship is destroyed is convenient, but for all we know the Chatauri are animated corpses and need mystic energy from the control vessel to operate. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/31 "2012-10-16T15:37:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The other thing to consider is that nuke the shadowy council types tried to drop on the city. There’s no way that a schemer and manipulator like Loki didn’t foresee that happening. It’s possible that the entire attack (at least, that phase of it) was orchestrated to convince the US government to nuke its own largest city… It was the shadowy international council, not the U.S. government, that made the decision to nuke NYC. This was a factor in the Pentagon saying “Thanks, but no thanks” to helping the studio during filming: [http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/avengers-military/](http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/avengers-military/) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/32 "2012-10-16T16:23:43Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > If there had been a line where Captain America said “Alright, we’ve taken out the brunt of them and the National Guard is cleaning up the rest. With the portal closed, they’ll have an easy time of it.” Something like that would have been just as easy and wouldn’t have been as silly as what we got. Yes, but because of the Law of Conservation of Ninjitsu, the more aliens that get taken down, the tougher the remaining aliens get. By the time they are down to one last remaining alien, he’d be so tough he could break the Hulk’s legs off and pick his teeth with them. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/33 "2012-10-18T03:07:38Z")
I basically think the answer to most of this is ‘they’re Skrulls.’ Seriously. They’re Skrulls, they’re weaker than humans, cowardly as hell, backstabbers. You can’t trust them. Their own leadership can’t trust them. Which is, by the way, why the broadcast power for the ships makes perfect sense. If you don’t know what a Skrull is, imagine an entire race made up of shapeshifters with the personality of Starscream from the Transformers. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/34 "2012-10-18T03:24:32Z")
Wait a minute, Nick Fury is not part of the US government?! HUH? The US is going to let a shadowy international cabal run experiments on a mystical cube on US soil, fly a weaponized flying carrier over US soil, and nuke NYC? …yea thats even less plausible than the superheroes. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/35 "2012-10-18T03:38:16Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Loki, of course, would have been at ground zero for the nuke; Asgardians’ ability to survive thermonuclear blasts isn’t entirely clear to me, but if they can, then the whole movie seems a bit silly. I’m assuming that Loki had a way to get out of Dodge before the nuke hit. He still had the Tesseract, after all, which is how Thor takes Loki back to Asgard for his trial - presumably, he could have used it to get himself back to Floaty Rock World to hand it over to Thanos. Or, some other world, where he’d keep it for himself. Loki’s not the most trustworthy guy, after all. Of course, this part of his plan hinged on him not getting beaten to a pulp by the Hulk, so he never had a chance to execute it. > [@](#): > > “Sorry guys, I know that was lame, but…” I assume he had a good reason? Or did he blame the execs for ruining his movie like he’s apt to do? No, he says that having them do six hours of clean up work after defeating the main force would have blunted the emotional arc of the film’s climax. I don’t know if that’s a _good_ reason - I can think up a couple ways he could have got around it. But then, I’ve never written or directed a movie before, so my actual ideas about what would and would not work in a film are untested, at best. He got enough about this movie just right that I’m inclined to believe him when he says he couldn’t think of a better way around that problem. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/36 "2012-10-18T05:00:38Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Wait a minute, Nick Fury is not part of the US government?! HUH? > > The US is going to let a shadowy international cabal run experiments on a mystical cube on US soil, fly a weaponized flying carrier over US soil, and nuke NYC? > > …yea thats even less plausible than the superheroes. Who actually calls the shots for SHIELD had been ambiguous long before this movie: > **[S.H.I.E.L.D.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.H.I.E.L.D.#Fictional_history)** > > S.H.I.E.L.D. is a fictional espionage, special law enforcement, and counter-terrorism government agency appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. Created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, this agency first appeared in Strange Tales #135 (August 1965), and often deals with paranormal activity and superhuman threats to international security. > The acronym originally stood for Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage and Law-Enforcement Division. It was changed in 1991 to Strategi... ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/37 "2012-10-18T16:55:50Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I basically think the answer to most of this is ‘they’re Skrulls.’ Seriously. They’re Skrulls, they’re weaker than humans, cowardly as hell, backstabbers. You can’t trust them. Their own leadership can’t trust them. Which is, by the way, why the broadcast power for the ships makes perfect sense. There’s not Skrulls. There’s basically nothing whatsoever Skrull-like about them. They’re almost _anti_-Skrulls. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Doom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Dr\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/38 "2012-10-18T17:02:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Or even a shot in the ending news montage of mooks getting taken out by a street gang. The DVD has something kinda-sorta related to this, as an extra. Random citizens find and are able to operate one of the Skrulls’ weapons, and go on a crime spree. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/39 "2012-10-19T03:30:39Z")
Not only did Loki have the Tesseract, he also had access to his own, secret, ways of traveling between worlds. Think of all those times in _Thor_ where he just appeared and disappeared, without the Bifrost light-show. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/40 "2012-10-19T05:07:55Z")
Another random fun fact for the Whedonites out there, gleaned from the commentary track: The alien who delivers the “To attack Earth is to court death line,” was played by [Alexis Denisof.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0219206/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812.md?page=3)