# The Avengers (movie) - Aliens vs. US Military \*open spoilers\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 15, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812 "2012-10-15T20:24:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/41 "2012-10-19T09:38:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The dropping dead when the ship is destroyed is convenient, but for all we know the Chatauri are animated corpses and need mystic energy from the control vessel to operate. They’re more-or-less robots. We saw Black Widow rip some circuitry out of one and then it died. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > It was the shadowy international council, not the U.S. government, that made the decision to nuke NYC. This was a factor in the Pentagon saying “Thanks, but no thanks” to helping the studio during filming: [http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/avengers-military/](http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/avengers-military/) Meh. It’s never really made clear who’s behind SHIELD. Shadowy? Yes. But not American? I never thought so. > [@Miller](#): > > Another random fun fact for the Whedonites out there, gleaned from the commentary track: The alien who delivers the “To attack Earth is to court death line,” was played by [Alexis Denisof.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0219206/) No commentary track needed, Denisof is actually in the credits. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/42 "2012-10-19T09:53:31Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > They’re more-or-less robots. We saw Black Widow rip some circuitry out of one and then it died. That wasn’t circuitry coming out of the alien, that was her [Widow’s Bite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_%28Natalia_Romanova%29#Equipment). > [@Simplico](#): > > I mean, if your getting your butt kicked by a guy with a bow and arrow, a chick with a handgun and a third guy that jumps around and bludgeons your guys with a shield, your probably going to be in trouble when the actual army with their actual weapons shows up. It’s worth noting that, in this universe, a guy who jumps around and bludgeons people with a shield was the single most devastating weapon we had against the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/43 "2012-10-19T10:16:30Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > There’s not Skrulls. There’s basically nothing whatsoever Skrull-like about them. They’re almost _anti_-Skrulls. Officially, they’re supposed to be the [Chitauri](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitauri), which are the Skrull analogues from the Marvel Ultimates universe. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/44 "2012-10-19T13:02:52Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > When Loki needed to take out a military target (the helicarrier), he used a very competent and disciplined strike force to do it. > > Gah, this hadn’t even occurred to me! This just makes the moog army seem even more pointless. Loki had already demonstrated that he could run a competent, deadly military operation, and then he turns around and sends in the zerglings. I’m not entirely sure he demonstrated the ability to run such an operation; it’s possible that, upon mind-controlling guys who run competent and deadly military operations, he leaves all the details of small-group tactics to his disciplined strike force – and that, for any larger-scale work, he likewise leaves all the details to his incompetent zerglings: he simply tells folks what to do, and they figure out how to do it, and he honestly can’t think of an improvement either time. That said, take 'em at face value and Loki’s actions in Germany maybe help explain his mindset: he makes a big display while declaring his reign, and some 95% of the crowd kneels in obeisance; one guy stands up to him – and, if not for Cap stepping in, Loki would’ve pulped him as an example to the others. So if not for Cap’s arrival, it’d make sense for Loki to think a big display in NYC will spark insta-surrender from some 95% of the folks watching – but Cap _ **does** _ show up, and holds his own until Iron Man shows up to do even better before trading blows with Thor, all of which prompts Loki’s new approach: Plan A is to get Earth’s supers fighting each other by pissing off the Hulk in their midst; failing that, Plan B is to mesmerize Iron Man into fighting his buddies. Either way, Loki figures simply getting 'em out of the way means he can repeat his Germany ploy in New York – this time with complete success, provided he’s uninterrupted by pesky supers. (He may well be _ **incorrect,** _ but he’d still be consistent.) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/45 "2012-10-19T13:19:56Z")
The Germany ploy was also a diversion while the mind-controlled minions stole the unobtanium. Loki also helped the theft by obtaining the iris/retina print. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/46 "2012-10-19T13:28:20Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > The Germany ploy was also a diversion while the mind-controlled minions stole the unobtanium. Loki also helped the theft by obtaining the iris/retina print. Hey! It was [iridium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium), a real, fascinating, (second highest density, highest corrosion resistance, and it comes from SPACE!), and exceedingly rare element. Don’t push Avatar “unobtanium” crap on the Avengers. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/47 "2012-10-19T13:48:08Z")
‘Unobtainium’ predates Avatar by half a century. Hell, it predates the Avengers by about a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/48 "2012-10-19T13:52:15Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Hey! It was [iridium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium), a real, fascinating, (second highest density, highest corrosion resistance, and it comes from SPACE!), and exceedingly rare element. Don’t push Avatar “unobtanium” crap on the Avengers. The fact that he was after a mundane (if somewhat rare) substance indicates that the theft was another example of Loki’s tendency to do things the flashy way instead of the practical way. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/49 "2012-10-19T14:17:38Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > ‘Unobtainium’ predates Avatar by half a century. > > Hell, it predates the Avengers by about a decade. The usage of the term in engineering is old, but wasn’t Avatar the first movie to use it as the actual name of an actual movie substance? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/50 "2012-10-19T14:21:22Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > The usage of the term in engineering is old, but wasn’t Avatar the first movie to use it as the actual name of an actual movie substance? They used it in THE CORE. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/51 "2012-10-19T14:27:32Z")
> [@Dr\_Doom](#): > > The DVD has something kinda-sorta related to this, as an extra. > > Random citizens find and are able to operate one of the Skrulls’ weapons, and go on a crime spree. One citizen is played by Lizzy Caplan, which should totally add to anyone’s reason to buy the DVD. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/52 "2012-10-19T14:55:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m not entirely sure he demonstrated the ability to run such an operation; it’s possible that, upon mind-controlling guys who run competent and deadly military operations, he leaves all the details of small-group tactics to his disciplined strike force – and that, for any larger-scale work, he likewise leaves all the details to his incompetent zerglings: he simply tells folks what to do, and they figure out how to do it, and he honestly can’t think of an improvement either time. > > That said, take 'em at face value and Loki’s actions in Germany maybe help explain his mindset: he makes a big display while declaring his reign, and some 95% of the crowd kneels in obeisance; one guy stands up to him – and, if not for Cap stepping in, Loki would’ve pulped him as an example to the others. > > So if not for Cap’s arrival, it’d make sense for Loki to think a big display in NYC will spark insta-surrender from some 95% of the folks watching – but Cap _ **does** _ show up, and holds his own until Iron Man shows up to do even better before trading blows with Thor, all of which prompts Loki’s new approach: Plan A is to get Earth’s supers fighting each other by pissing off the Hulk in their midst; failing that, Plan B is to mesmerize Iron Man into fighting his buddies. > > Either way, Loki figures simply getting 'em out of the way means he can repeat his Germany ploy in New York – this time with complete success, provided he’s uninterrupted by pesky supers. (He may well be _ **incorrect,** _ but he’d still be consistent.) I agree with this - he did not expect resistance - while his main goal in Germany was the Iris - everything outside was for his own grandstanding (and to get captured to set the second part of his plan in motion). ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/53 "2012-10-19T15:37:43Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > They used it in THE CORE. I’m not familiar with that movie. [Off to imdb] Hmm. Now I’m even more adamant that the term shouldn’t be connected with the Avengers movie. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/54 "2012-10-19T15:45:47Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Meh. It’s never really made clear who’s behind SHIELD. Shadowy? Yes. But not American? I never thought so… Fair enough, but the range of accents we heard in Fury’s teleconferences, and the fact that SHIELD was not (and easily could have been) flatly stated to be a U.S.-run outfit suggests that, in fact, it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/55 "2012-10-19T15:56:58Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Fair enough, but the range of accents we heard in Fury’s teleconferences, and the fact that SHIELD was not (and easily could have been) flatly stated to be a U.S.-run outfit suggests that, in fact, it isn’t. They were listed in the credits as the “World Security Council”. Though Powers Boothe & Jenny Agutter clearly ran the show. Hell, Powers Boothe is one of the few actors that could pull off telling Samuel L. Jackson what to do. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/56 "2012-10-22T00:45:28Z")
Casting news for Whedon’s S.H.I.E.L.D. TV show: Agent Coulson is back! Maybe as a demon, knowing Joss. But probably as a resurrected agent, who didn’t really die. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/57 "2012-10-22T01:29:19Z")
Do we know that the TV show takes place after the movie? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/58 "2012-10-22T01:32:13Z")
honest complaint: the Gs Stark would feel shifting directions so violently inside that iron man suit would like, liquify him, i’d think. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/59 "2012-10-22T01:56:53Z")
His armor uses his patented repulsor technology to prevent that. Yes, that’s the canon answer, and yes, it’s at least vaguely plausible. _Uniform_ forces won’t hurt you; the problem is just that most forces aren’t uniform, at least in so far as they only act on your surface, not on your innards. If repulsor fields (however the heck they work) have a nonneglible penetration depth, they could transfer the forces closer to uniformly. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812/60 "2012-10-22T01:58:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Do we know that the TV show takes place after the movie? Nope. For all we know, it could take place ten years before Iron Man to iron out any casting problems. Of course, I think Joss and company are really pushing for Cobie Smulders to join the show after How I Met Your Mother ends in May. So I bet it takes place post-Avengers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-avengers-movie-aliens-vs-us-military-open-spoilers/637812.md?page=4)