This is your first post, in response to LSLGuy responding to my question about how low the Blue Angels fly over the runway at one of their shows. So you objected to his answer by dragging in non-responsive information. When it was pointed out that we were talking about during an air show, you objected on the basis that it could only be below 1000’ when over the runway, not people. See?
Were there different rules for bombers? Back in the early 80s, I spent some time at the Cholla power plant near Holbrook, Arizona. There was an Air Force radar training station there, and periodically we’d see a B-52 come in on a low-altitude run just to the east or west of the power plant. It was definitely lower than 1000 ft, and I understand that they used to fly right over the top of the plant, but when the plant expanded and built a higher stack, they moved the flight path to the side. My guess was that it was training for both the radar operators and the flight crew, but it was quite the sight to see.
500 feet for unpopulated areas. A bomber that low would be a sight to see. For perspective, a small plane enters a flight pattern at 1000 feet when landing.
From personal experience I can safely advise a person not to use a port-a-john at the end of a runway during an air show. I had a Beach-18 take off over me and the pilot was building speed to for a quick pull-up.
Actually, in hindsight, that’s probably the best place to crap your pants.
Portland’s Airport (PDX, Oregon, not Maine) has an ANG base with F-15s. I had an office due East of the Southern runway (the one closest to the base)
I was very used to F15s departing in pairs like a bats out hell.
Then one day, one of them made an Eagle departure. Liftoff, gear up, nose straight up and full power to 50,000 feet. He was pretty much directly over my head. The concrete walls of my office shook, and conversation was impossible.
When we could talk again, I mentioned that that was the sound of freedom.
SAC used a bombing practice tool they called RBS or radar bomb scoring. The B52s would make practice runs against actual stuff on the ground, but they wouldn’t drop anything. A USAF radar nearby would assess how close to the right spot they were when they transmitted the machine-to-machine euivalent of that immortal cry: “Bombs away!” The Cholla powerplant was famous as a favorite target. It gave the navigators some realistic practice aiming at what a large fixed structure looked like on radar. The goal was never to just hit the plant, but rather one particular spot on it.
Typically the B52 planned to drop live bombs from ~300 ft above the ground. They couldn’t get much lower safely; any bank angle when really low would risk dragging a wingtip.
So that’s probably how high they were going over the powerplant. They’d be going as fast as they could, with the throttles up near max. That’d be 350-400 mph and trailing enough oily black smoke to make a steam locomotive green with envy.
And one last sigh on the altitude regulations thing … The standard FARs on altitude (and on speed) do NOT apply to the military in all cases. In many cases, yes. But not all. But for the situations we’re discussing in this thread, it’s the exceptions, not the general rules, which apply.
In addition to areas where the DOD owns both the land and the sky, and the FARs are completely NA, there are all sorts of surveyed routes through ordinary FAA Class F & G airspace where the usual FARs just don’t apply to DOD ops.
There are places where the V airways run along at 1000’ above the terrain minimum with a 250 mph speed limit while DOD has a surveyed crossing route where we can rip past at 100’ above the ground going 500 knots in the opposite direction. And some poor guy’s shack is 700 ft off centerline of the 4-mile wide route.
The owner would eventually get tired of the sound of freedom. “Not our problem” was the prevailing attitude.
I was in the National Guard in the early 80’s and I can remember shooting down at some jets from a canyon wall, at Ft. Carson, during some MILES exercise.
Way back in the day, while patrolling a pipe in the desert Southwes, in a Cessna-182, (Not the normal a/c which was usually a Cessna 150) where it was normal to pull up a bit to cross the few fence lines, I saw wheel tracks start and stop along the top of the back fill which will last for years in that area. I called the dispatcher and asked if that was something I needed to report. He laughed and said something along the lines of, ‘It is a game the guys who normally patrol out there play with each other. You see how how far you can run the left main down the back fill without having to lift off at 120 MPH or better.’
I could never get over 250-300 feet in length. But I was just subbing for a guy and was not out there long enough to really get good at it…
I saw some tracks that were unbroken for over a 1000 feet…
::: Real pipeline patrol pilots will get a nose bleed if they ever get over 200’ AGL. ::
By the time I was there, they had moved to the side for their targeting, but there was definitely much smoke and noise, and was indeed “a hell of a sight.” Somewhat unnerving the first time, but after that, it was pretty cool.
Heh. More impressive from a chase plane on a hot bombing pass. The doors on that thing open up, and it just rains bombs. The one I filmed was a full load of 52 (I think) 500 pounders. That woulda been a bad day to be driving a tank under us.
Don’t remember if I’ve mentioned it here, but I used to fly fighters, too. F-4, F-15, F-16, T-38. Aerial photog for a weapons testing unit. Best damn job an enlisted guy could hope for in the Air Force. Did plenty of low altitude high speed runs, mostly dropping CBUs of various types. Biggest worry we had was bird strikes. Zoom & Boom was the mantra, of course, but the reality was that if my frontseater took a bird in the face while I had the camera up, we’d be dead before I could grab the stick or punch out. Even if I did manage to pull the handle, we were at the ragged edge of the seat envelope much of the time.
I don’t think you have, or at least not in a thread I’ve read; I’d certainly have noticed it if you did. That really is a cool job. Glad to have somebody else to talk about some of the fun side of the military.
Did you get any of your work published anywhere accessible like AW&ST? Do you still do any photo work, ground- or air-?
Far as I know, I don’t have anything credited to me published anywhere. I have seen some of my footage on shows like Wings and Firepower. Most of what I did was slow motion stuff, in tight, showing the clearance as bombs came off airplanes. Also did some stills and video, and I’ve seen some postcards I shot, but the only credit was “USAF Photo” or some such. I don’t really do any photo stuff anymore. Haven’t in years. Everything seems to be digital now, and I’m a film guy, so I’m way out of date.