# The Banning of Shodan **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 14, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763 "2020-05-14T02:33:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/281 "2020-05-15T15:48:22Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But in the context of this discussion it’s worth noting that you can get away with this type of move because your positions are well within the mainstream of this particular MB and people have noticed your 42,000 posts defending positions that they mostly agree with but don’t have as much time to elucidate. So you have buddies who will watch your back. > > But if a guy in Shodan’s position on the spectrum of board opinion were to misrepresent his opponents’ positions in the exact manner that you just did, it would provoke a much stronger counter-reaction, and if he tried to blow it off in the manner that you just did it would provoke people even more - possibly spawn a Pit thread on the subject - and eventually contribute in an incremental way to his being banned over some minor/dubious infraction. So… LHoD is a white man and Shodan is a black man? It’s interesting that conservatives here are VERY interested in equal outcomes when it comes to banning someone from a message board, and so very “he didn’t follow instructions” when it comes to minorities being killed by cops. This is why IDGAF about whether Shodan, you or other law and order loving conservatives get ground up by law and order moderation on this board. Follow the rules or get banned. Don’t try to use your minority status here as an excuse, when you spit on that idea in every place where it actually matters. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/282 "2020-05-15T15:51:27Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > No. Do you think responses like yours underscore my point? I think that one of Shodan’s many faults was his sexism. When other posters pointed to your post on Melania and how it went unchallenged I think it supported some of the points that Shodan’s defenders made: that he was treated differently because he was a conservative. I also think that it demonstrated that we still have a problem with casual misogyny on this board. Then, when you derided anyone who disagreed with you by using language that is sexist in tone: pearl clutching, fainting couch and panties in a wad, you further made their point that Shodan was targeted for being a conservative. Your phrasing is clearly calling anyone who has a problem with your post a hysterical woman and being a woman has a negative connotation in the post. You didn’t choose gender neutral language, you choose sexist language. I think misogyny needs to be called out here. I think it needs to be called out whether the poster voted the way I like, or not. I don’t think every instance rises to a post being reported, but I think this moment is a chance for us to keep working on this issue. I think if we don’t do that and ban Shodan, but don’t call out other posters who aren’t conservatives, then Shodan’s defenders are correct. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/283 "2020-05-15T15:56:51Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Would you go as far as to classify them as “hate speech”? Or does hate speech require more context than simply the use of words “cunt” and “harpie”? I don’t know, maybe? I think they’re on the same spectrum. I think our society is such that misogynistic slurs are essentially background noise and we often can’t even recognize them. Similar to how ethnic and racial slurs were used for most of American history – just regular, background language, noted as insignificant by all except those whose diminishment and degradation such language helped reinforce. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/284 "2020-05-15T16:00:34Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think that one of Shodan’s many faults was his sexism. When other posters pointed to your post on Melania and how it went unchallenged I think it supported some of the points that Shodan’s defenders made: that he was treated differently because he was a conservative. I also think that it demonstrated that we still have a problem with casual misogyny on this board. > > Then, when you derided anyone who disagreed with you by using language that is sexist in tone: pearl clutching, fainting couch and panties in a wad, you further made their point that Shodan was targeted for being a conservative. Your phrasing is clearly calling anyone who has a problem with your post a hysterical woman and being a woman has a negative connotation in the post. You didn’t choose gender neutral language, you choose sexist language. > > I think misogyny needs to be called out here. I think it needs to be called out whether the poster voted the way I like, or not. I don’t think every instance rises to a post being reported, but I think this moment is a chance for us to keep working on this issue. > > I think if we don’t do that and ban Shodan, but don’t call out other posters who aren’t conservatives, then Shodan’s defenders are correct. I hear what you are saying but I think it’s a far more nuanced conversation than you are letting on. Misogyny isn’t every time someone uses a word you don’t like. Comics like Michelle Wolf and Ricky Gervais (among many others) famously use sexist remarks to illustrate a point that seems to be getting lost here: Context matters. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/285 "2020-05-15T16:07:54Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I hear what you are saying but I think it’s a far more nuanced conversation than you are letting on. Misogyny isn’t every time someone uses a word you don’t like. Comics like Michelle Wolf and Ricky Gervais (among many others) famously use sexist remarks to illustrate a point that seems to be getting lost here: Context matters. I agree to an extent. My rule on a comic using very offensive language is a) you better have a point and b) the joke better be really funny. But we’re not in a comedy club, we’re in a message board that covers a lot of different topics and benefits from having the participation of as many different types of people as possible and that requires respect. I was all for banning Shodan, because he was dishonest troll. But I think some of his defenders have a point in this thread and I think that if we want people to be on board with cultural change here then we have to acknowledge that. As I said earlier, it pains me to say that because I have never bought into their claims before. I still think that they are calling a nugget of truth a mountain. We all have to do better, me included for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/286 "2020-05-15T16:09:06Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This is not the time or the place. Also, not my job. I can sleep at night knowing we disagree about this. It offends me not in the least. Thank God! My panties were in a bunch thinking I might have offended you. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/287 "2020-05-15T16:19:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > She wasnt a public figure. Just some professor. She definitely is a public figure, at least according to the standard typically implied by that term (i.e. for defamation actions). Specifically, she is a “limited purpose” public figure, which includes those who have “thrust themselves to the forefront of particular public controversies in order to influence the resolution of the issues involved.” Relevant [Wiki article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure). ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/288 "2020-05-15T16:19:15Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I hear what you are saying but I think it’s a far more nuanced conversation than you are letting on. Misogyny isn’t every time someone uses a word you don’t like. Comics like Michelle Wolf and Ricky Gervais (among many others) famously use sexist remarks to illustrate a point that seems to be getting lost here: Context matters. Context matters. For me, the crack against the two Trump women was just out of place in MPSIMS, which I consider to be the relaxing, non-aggressive board. Call them feckless cunts all you want in the Pit, but it was just jarring there. ---
**Author:** ![saucywench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@saucywench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saucywench)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/289 "2020-05-15T16:27:48Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Thank God! My panties were in a bunch thinking I might have offended you. At least he didn’t call you a cunt. So, there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/290 "2020-05-15T16:32:15Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > We cannot read every single post on this board; it’s physically impossible. We cannot react to what we do not see. Right - but when about to ban someone for using a certain word, you could easily do a search to see how common is its use. Count me among those who would have been surprised at a mild warning for this. Despite Shodan’s awkward history, this ban really looks way out of line. I think you should consider converting this to a suspension. If Shodan really is the board criminal some believe, he’ll soon commit a genuine offense and can be banished without the current stain on Mod reputation. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/291 "2020-05-15T16:33:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Well that’s a nice glib way to wriggle out of it. Possibly a technique you have found effective in similar situations in the past. Meh. You’ve thought me a liar for years, and are really clever at saying so with enough innuendo and conditionals that you don’t run afoul of the rules. Which, hooray for having talents. So you’re challenging me here to show that I’m telling the truth. BUt there are two problems: 1. I don’t think that you’re persuadable in this matter; and 2. I double-checked my bucket list, and “Convince Fotheringay-Phipps that I’m honest” isn’t appearing anywhere on there. So yeah, I take your question. There’s no particular “effect” I’d achieve in answering it. You are welcome to your opinion of me and I won’t try to change it. And that’s the last I’ll say on that topic here. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/292 "2020-05-15T16:33:44Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > The banning is bullshit but not unexpected. Triggering the 97% equals trolling while the 97% can get away with a lot more because its “obviously” warranted and accurate. There can’t possibly be any personal pleasure in it either because… social justice blah blah blah Well, yes, it does, at least when you use it that way. When someone goes around trying to trigger people, they are trolling. It’s just another way of describing deliberately trying to piss people off. Given **Shodan** ’s past trolling history (including that which he admitted) I am nearly certain his use of “harpy” was to try and “tweak the liberals” by going right up against the line on the anti-misogyny rules. If he did not have the history he had of trolling, then I would understand saying that using the word “harpy” was ill-advised but not a Warnable offense. But he did. And since he was warned for the same behavior 4 times, and even was suspended once, that’s a good indication he was not going to stop. You can’t look at **Shodan** ’s posts which were constantly snarky and telling other dopers they were bad people, and think he wasn’t trying to rile people up. Again, the only way that argument makes sense is if you just hadn’t read most of his more recent posts. And, again, **he harassed a mentally ill veteran for having a mental illness caused by her service**. I will keep stressing this. Arguing that he’s some poor misunderstood champion for conservatism on a liberal message board DOES NOT WORK. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/293 "2020-05-15T16:38:15Z")
I’m also a bit tired of people continuing to act like the problem was the word “harpy,” and not a general pattern of a particular poster. You’re not convincing anyone by arguing a strawman. So pay attention to what is actually being argued. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/294 "2020-05-15T16:38:31Z")
> [@saucywench](#): > > At least he didn’t call you a cunt. So, there’s that. He only calls women that word. And it’s not sexist or misogynistic because those women deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/295 "2020-05-15T16:39:09Z")
I think we should take into account that “Harvard Harpy” sounds exactly like the kind of alliterative insult first popularized by Nixon speechwriter William Safire (who put “nattering nabobs of negativism” into the mouth of Spiro Agnew) and then brought back into popularity by a certain conservative radio talk-show buffoon. I’m not saying that the poster in question hasn’t edged increasingly closer to participating on this board exclusively to insult people with whom he does not agree, but I’m not sure that particular insult was intended to be misogynistic. Personally I prefer gender-free terms like “buffoon,” “asshole,” “jerk,” etc. There’s plenty of room in the English language to get one’s opinion across without accidentally smearing entire races, religions, or genders. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/296 "2020-05-15T16:39:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’m also a bit tired of people continuing to act like the problem was the word “harpy,” and not a general pattern of a particular poster. > > You’re not convincing anyone by arguing a strawman. So pay attention to what is actually being argued. Strange argument considering the warning itself mentioned the use of the word “harpy” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/297 "2020-05-15T16:56:38Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Strange argument considering the warning itself mentioned the use of the word “harpy” I also said that they have had this discussion before. If you use a “forbidden word”, that you did not know was forbidden, then you can certainly be excused from reprimand. Once you know that it is not an appropriate word, then you are not just being reprimanded for using it, you are being reprimanded for using it in direct violation of moderator instructions that you are very well aware of. If you look down the thread, there were several posters who responded directly to the word “harpy”. This derails the discussion, which, IMHO, and my understanding of the Mods opinion, was exactly what Shodan wanted. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/298 "2020-05-15T17:09:51Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > As a woman, a survivor of sexual assault, a female who was targeted for at least two rape scenarios online and someone who was relentlessly followed on a couple message boards for a time, I’m disgusted that misogyny is being used as the pretext to get rid of several posters. > > But since I’m not ready to flounce yet, I’ll sit and watch in horror as the board continues in the direction it has. I watched in horror over **Shodan** ’s warning in the Pit and his suspension, **Bone** ’s abrupt departure and the banning of several other posters. It’s sad to see. I miss the time when just about every topic was well-represented on both sides. You do know there will be those who will reply to you that on \*this \*subject there are not two sides worth being represented. > [@JKellyMap](#): > > Circa 2017-2022 will forever be known as the time when casual misogyny was no longer tolerated in most of Western society. This board (the mods, and the posting community), to its credit, has tackled this issue, too — with generally positive results, in my opinion. Your lips to Og’s ears, but that is a hope and aspiration, not a fact yet. Plus even if so there surely are others who would already be condemning this Board for not tackling it years earlier. > [@Falchion](#): > > I’d like to see less of all of it, but that doesn’t seem likely. But I’m not going to waste my time mining the board for infractions (except, apparently, yesterday after a few drinks), unless you want to make me a Moderator and pay me the big bucks. Right, like they’d ever pay in anything other than SD merchandise 😃 > [@](#): > > But, if your point is that sexist insults aren’t being moderated because “conservative” posters need to report it when it’s directed at “conservative” women (and that “liberal” posters aren’t likely to do so), then I think that’s pretty much consistent with the claim that’s being made by others. If we’re not going to tolerate that type of language, then the onus is everyone who is inclined to report posts to report posts, regardless of whether they like the target. Well, yes, we should all watch out for offensive language out of context and for implicit biases, but it is also true neither members nor Mods can be tasked with having to act as the Neighborhood Watch or else we are somehow failing to be good citizens. In any case most of us know the appropriate time, place and manner for different expressions, as witnessed by that most of us are not getting warned and banned left and right. That there may be cases in which there is no absolute consensus on whether those parameters were met and what to do about it is inevitable, but usually only brought to our attention when someone actively objects. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/299 "2020-05-15T17:11:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > He only calls women that word. Are you sure? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/300 "2020-05-15T17:10:52Z")
This was a bullshit warning, and a bullshit banning. Some professor making national policy recommendations is no less a public figure than Ms. Trump. Public figures are usually fair game here. Also, I assume I can still call Hanoi Jane Fonda a traitor. Why can’t I also call her a harpy? Treason can be a capital crime, and is dishonorable. It’s a much more offensive claim that calling her an obscure entry in the Monster Manual. If harpy is out, can I call her Medusa? Medea? Xaviera Hollander? Bonnie Parker? Hillarywannabee? AOhmygodimstupidC? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763.md?page=16)