# The Banning of Shodan **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 14, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763 "2020-05-14T02:33:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/301 "2020-05-15T17:16:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > This was a bullshit warning, and a bullshit banning. Some professor making national policy recommendations is no less a public figure than Ms. Trump. Public figures are usually fair game here. > > Also, I assume I can still call Hanoi Jane Fonda a traitor. Why can’t I also call her a harpy? Treason can be a capital crime, and is dishonorable. It’s a much more offensive claim that calling her an obscure entry in the Monster Manual. If harpy is out, can I call her Medusa? Medea? Xaviera Hollander? Bonnie Parker? Hillarywannabee? AOhmygodimstupidC? You sure do want to use gendered insults against women, don’t you? I certainly hope the answer is that no, you don’t get to use gendered insults like most of those. Call Fonda a traitor if you want to make the sort of aburdist argument that should be allowed on the board, by all means; but the gendered insults? I’m 100% okay with you having those removed from your arsenal. (And, of course, the use of them against Trump women is also repugnant.) I genuinely think that removing those words from your repertoire won’t weaken your ability to make your case. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/302 "2020-05-15T17:16:34Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What people are saying is that Shodan was unpopular because of his minority views… No, **Shodan** was unpopular because he was a jerk. Actually, he was a lot more than a jerk, but I shall refrain from using all the insulting-but-accurate terms I’d use to describe him. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/303 "2020-05-15T17:29:47Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Are you sure? You must. Since it has been explained that it is a sexist and misogynistic term because it’s only used to describe women. I mean, someone got a warning for using the word “harpy”. I can’t imagine the warnings given if someone called a woman a “cunt”. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/304 "2020-05-15T17:54:55Z")
Noting, warning, banning, or suspension for referring to a politician as a harpy is stupid. Especially considering the words directed at republicans or Trump on a daily basis. Inconsistency and lack of clarity are not virtues. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/305 "2020-05-15T17:56:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t know, maybe? I think they’re on the same spectrum. I think our society is such that misogynistic slurs are essentially background noise and we often can’t even recognize them. Similar to how ethnic and racial slurs were used for most of American history – just regular, background language, noted as insignificant by all except those whose diminishment and degradation such language helped reinforce. We all have our lines that we choose not to cross. I’ve never, for example, called a woman a “bitch”, in anger or as a joke. Hell, I won’t even use it in reference to a female dog. But “sonofabitch” trips off the tongue in reference to a dude or as an expletive. Nothing remotely degradational towards women is meant in that usage of the word. Are you saying you would choose to eradicate all such use of these words? What about “bastard”? Are we really talking about an entire cleansing of the English lexicon of words someone might find offensive in a way that is not intended? Because I’m concerned that we might end up getting rid of “fuck”, and that’s a world in which I don’t want to live. > [@madmonk28](#): > > I agree to an extent. My rule on a comic using very offensive language is a) you better have a point and b) the joke better be really funny. > > But we’re not in a comedy club, we’re in a message board that covers a lot of different topics and benefits from having the participation of as many different types of people as possible and that requires respect. > > I was all for banning Shodan, because he was dishonest troll. But I think some of his defenders have a point in this thread and I think that if we want people to be on board with cultural change here then we have to acknowledge that. As I said earlier, it pains me to say that because I have never bought into their claims before. I still think that they are calling a nugget of truth a mountain. > > We all have to do better, me included for sure. We know that some words are offensive by their very nature or in how they are used. We know that you can appear to be perfectly polite while expressing hate speech. We all know that even in the most formal forums, GD/GQ/P&E, jokes are a constant presence. We know that offense can be taken without offer, and often is. Is it reasonable to insist that others must respect our rights not to be offended by certain use of language? Freedom not to listen may be almost as important as freedom of speech. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Context matters. For me, the crack against the two Trump women was just out of place in MPSIMS, which I consider to be the relaxing, non-aggressive board. Call them feckless cunts all you want in the Pit, but it was just jarring there. I read the mod note and will avoid doing so going forward in MPSIMS. I see no reason to rebel against a reasonable request. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/306 "2020-05-15T17:57:27Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I recall that **Budget Player Cadet** , who was only with us for a few years, was allowed 17 warnings and 2 suspensions before being banned. I don’t know how many warnings \*\*Shodan \*\*racked up over the last twenty years, but that sounds like a significantly tougher standard for **Shodan**. Like BigT’ s double digit warnings. Different standards for different folks. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/307 "2020-05-15T18:03:15Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Like BigT’ s double digit warnings. Different standards for different folks. Do you happen to know when he last got one, by any chance? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/308 "2020-05-15T18:04:05Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > … > I agree with **Dallas Jones** , **Isosleepy** , **Crafter\_Man** , **Fotheringay-Phipps,** **pool** , **SlackerInc** and others that Shodan was targeted for his views. I also agree that it’s like walking over landmines to post here. I… If by\* targeted \*you mean some posters were happy to see a post that needed reporting, you are likely right. I am sure that that same thing happens to me- I am very unpopular with a certain group. Some posters can post something marginal and people will skate over it. But if by _targeted_ you mean the Mods had it in for him? I disagree strongly ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/309 "2020-05-15T18:05:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Noting, warning, banning, or suspension for referring to a politician as a harpy is stupid. {…} Just to be clear, would you agree with the following? Noting, warning, banning, or suspension for referring to a non-politician as a harpy is the correct thing to do. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/310 "2020-05-15T18:08:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You sure do want to use gendered insults against women, don’t you? > > I certainly hope the answer is that no, you don’t get to use gendered insults like most of those. Call Fonda a traitor if you want to make the sort of aburdist argument that should be allowed on the board, by all means; but the gendered insults? I’m 100% okay with you having those removed from your arsenal. (And, of course, the use of them against Trump women is also repugnant.) > > I genuinely think that removing those words from your repertoire won’t weaken your ability to make your case. Really? It is verbotten that I compare any female on the planet to any other distasteful female entity, real or imagined, for any reason? But I can do exactly the same thing for a man and nobody cares? No outrage or mod sanction for say, Rush Limbaugh as Jabba the Hutt? Perfectly fine to call Jeff Sessions a satyr? This is pretzel logic that makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/311 "2020-05-15T18:10:07Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You must. Since it has been explained that it is a sexist and misogynistic term because it’s only used to describe women. > > I mean, someone got a warning for using the word “harpy”. I can’t imagine the warnings given if someone called a woman a “cunt”. As was explained, Shodan had a history of misogynistic statements. This happened to be his last. I didn’t find it so appallingly egregious to deserve a banning, but I’m not the one who makes and enforces the rules. So what are we talking about? You think I have a similar posting history? Fine. Dig it up and report it. Otherwise, what is your problem with me specifically? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/312 "2020-05-15T18:16:22Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Really? It is verbotten that I compare any female on the planet to any other distasteful female entity, real or imagined, for any reason? But I can do exactly the same thing for a man and nobody cares? No outrage or mod sanction for say, Rush Limbaugh as Jabba the Hutt? Perfectly fine to call Jeff Sessions a satyr? This is pretzel logic that makes no sense. not what i said, but that sure woulda been dumb if i had said it ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/313 "2020-05-15T18:18:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Meh. You’ve thought me a liar for years, and are really clever at saying so with enough innuendo and conditionals that you don’t run afoul of the rules. Which, hooray for having talents. > > So you’re challenging me here to show that I’m telling the truth. BUt there are two problems: > > 1. I don’t think that you’re persuadable in this matter; and > 2. I double-checked my bucket list, and “Convince Fotheringay-Phipps that I’m honest” isn’t appearing anywhere on there. > > So yeah, I take your question. There’s no particular “effect” I’d achieve in answering it. You are welcome to your opinion of me and I won’t try to change it. And that’s the last I’ll say on that topic here. From a purely technical standpoint, I agree with (almost) everything you say here. But you’re completely missing the point. The issue at hand is not your general character. The issue is your characterizing the position of your disputants in this thread as "_that vigorous conversation among diverse views cannot happen unless you put up with people calling women “harpies.”_ The question is whether that’s even a remotely accurate representation of the positions of those to whom you’re ascribing this position. Misrepresenting the position of one’s debate opponents detracts significantly from the discussions. You yourself expressed strong opposition to the practice in this very thread. The forthright thing to do would be to either back up or back away from this characterization. This is completely independent of whether you will succeed in changing my opinion of your honesty or whether there’s any value in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/314 "2020-05-15T18:18:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > As was explained, Shodan had a history of misogynistic statements. This happened to be his last. I didn’t find it so appallingly egregious to deserve a banning, but I’m not the one who makes and enforces the rules. > > So what are we talking about? You think I have a similar posting history? Fine. Dig it up and report it. Otherwise, what is your problem with me specifically? Sorry, I’m not in the habit of reporting posts, because I believe in the power of the scroll-y wheel on my mouse. Also, I don’t have “problems” with anonymous message board posters. I simply find your unmodded and apparently un-reported statements calling Melania Trump what others deem a sexist, misogynistic term interesting in the context of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/315 "2020-05-15T18:20:35Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The forthright thing to do would be… What you believe I should do is noted, but I have nothing else to say on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/316 "2020-05-15T18:22:36Z")
Dear Word Police: Is it ok to call a harpy a harpy or not? Regards, Shodan’s Friend ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/317 "2020-05-15T18:24:26Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > but the gendered insults? I’m 100% okay with you having those removed from your arsenal. (And, of course, the use of them against Trump women is also repugnant.) > > I genuinely think that removing those words from your repertoire won’t weaken your ability to make your case. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > not what i said, but that sure woulda been dumb if i had said it How is it not what you said? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/318 "2020-05-15T18:27:12Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’m also a bit tired of people continuing to act like the problem was the word “harpy,” and not a general pattern of a particular poster. > > You’re not convincing anyone by arguing a strawman. So pay attention to what is actually being argued. It is like those “three strikes cases” where the previous two striker as manslaughter and sexual assault, but the third is stealing a bike. You aint going to prison for just stealing that bike. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/319 "2020-05-15T18:34:53Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Dear Word Police: Is it ok to call a harpy a harpy or not? Yes. You can also use it to describe a musical piece or musical instrument. Example: “What is that? It sounds harpy.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/320 "2020-05-15T18:36:18Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > We all have our lines that we choose not to cross. I’ve never, for example, called a woman a “bitch”, in anger or as a joke. Hell, I won’t even use it in reference to a female dog. But “sonofabitch” trips off the tongue in reference to a dude or as an expletive. Nothing remotely degradational towards women is meant in that usage of the word. Are you saying you would choose to eradicate all such use of these words? What about “bastard”? Are we really talking about an entire cleansing of the English lexicon of words someone might find offensive in a way that is not intended? Because I’m concerned that we might end up getting rid of “fuck”, and that’s a world in which I don’t want to live. These lines aren’t always easy and clear. I don’t really have a problem with the ones you mention (aside from “bitch”) – I think the misogynistic slurs have a clear history of being used to demean and degrade women, and thus ought to be avoided. I don’t think these other terms have the same history, and thus I don’t really care about their usage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763.md?page=17)