# The Banning of Shodan **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 14, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763 "2020-05-14T02:33:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/81 "2020-05-14T14:51:44Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That’s not how identity-based epithets work. There was nothing in her behavior that led to the charge, except: > > 1. She advocated positions Shodan disliked, while > 2. Being a woman. > > It looks pretty clear that any woman who takes a position he disagrees with is, in his opinion, a squawking filthy monstrosity. That seems like a stretch. Because to me, it looks like he thinks that particular woman is, in your words, a “squawking filthy monstrosity.” I’m not sure how you conclude that it means he thinks ALL women whose opinions differ from his are “squawking filthy monstronsit[ies]” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/82 "2020-05-14T14:53:00Z")
I don’t think the mods are purposefully going after people of a different political bent than they (although I am not aware of any of the mods identifying as conservative, they have banned plenty of liberals like **Huey Freeman** and \*\*Budget Player Cadet \*\*before, too) - they are doing a fine job for the most part, but we can’t dismiss the issue of subconscious bias either. Per the question posed earlier upthread, which is whether or not the identity of the target of a slur has anything to do with the severity or leniency of moderation, I think **Unreconstructed Man** had a very valid point when he opined that had \*\*Shodan \*\*called Betsy DeVos (or Melania/Ivanka Trump) a harpy, he wouldn’t be banned. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/83 "2020-05-14T14:58:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Have you considered the possibility that his accelerating level of warnings is related to changes in moderation policy at around that same time that his warnings began to increase? > > Though it’s more likely that while these are not coincidental, they are only indirectly related. What’s really happening is that the board as a whole is getting more and more hard core left, and less respectful and tolerant of dissenting and non-PC viewpoints. This dynamic creates a situation where those of dissenting viewpoints will tend to have their posts interpreted as trolling (and themselves as trolls) and also a heightened sensitivity to transgressions of PC standards… Aren’t you asking us to be tolerant of racism and misogyny, i.e. intolerance? On the surface it sounds like you think that conservative dopers should be held to a lower standard than non-conservative dopers, which I think is actually what happens here. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/84 "2020-05-14T14:59:45Z")
We can’t say harpy, gasp women are so fragile we must protect them! This place has become so hypocritical and lame, why are we allowed to say cunt in the Pit, it can be argued it’s the same exact shit. This banning is total bullshit in my opinion, probably more a personal dislike by the mod, than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/85 "2020-05-14T15:01:58Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Aren’t you asking us to be tolerant of racism and misogyny, i.e. intolerance? On the surface it sounds like you think that conservative dopers should be held to a lower standard than non-conservative dopers, which I think is actually what happens here. You already are tolerant of lefty racism and classism. Again, there are a handful of posters who pull out the ‘white people are…’ chestnuts and the classist ‘if those rich people dont change their ways we will wipe them off the face of the earth’. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/86 "2020-05-14T15:03:26Z")
> [@pool](#): > > We can’t say harpy, gasp women are so fragile we must protect them! This place has become so hypocritical and lame, why are we allowed to say cunt in the Pit, it can be argued it’s the same exact shit. > > This banning is total bullshit in my opinion, probably more a personal dislike by the mod, than anything else. Bans are discussed by the mods as a group (other than spammers). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/87 "2020-05-14T15:03:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That seems like a stretch. Because to me, it looks like he thinks that particular woman is, in your words, a “squawking filthy monstrosity.” I’m not sure how you conclude that it means he thinks ALL women whose opinions differ from his are “squawking filthy monstronsit[ies]” I’m here to be convinced. What other trait had this woman shown that led to the epithet’s use? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/88 "2020-05-14T15:03:45Z")
I don’t read or post in many political threads so I’ve missed a lot of **Shodan** ’s comments. Many of them in general interest discussions have been thoughtful or at least amusing. And he’s been consistent in opposing medical quackery, which you can’t say about quite a few conservatives. If he’d been privately warned that he was treading on extremely thin ice, and any infraction was going to get him ejected, his banning might be viewed as just. This however seems like pretty weak sauce, even given the administration’s sensitivity to misogyny.\* I hope it can be reviewed and possibly rescinded at some point, as the board will be diminished without him. \*speaking of which, a thread was recently closed for soliciting opinions about the relative “hotness” of women in a TV show, and the moderator noted it was unacceptable on grounds of misogyny. I have no argument with closing the thread, but _misogyny_? Sexist yes, misogyny no. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/89 "2020-05-14T15:04:31Z")
> [@pool](#): > > We can’t say harpy, gasp women are so fragile we must protect them! This place has become so hypocritical and lame, why are we allowed to say cunt in the Pit, it can be argued it’s the same exact shit. > > This banning is total bullshit in my opinion, probably more a personal dislike by the mod, than anything else. I thought bannings took the mods agreeing? Not one mod. Shodan always irritated a lot of posters. It probably built up over the very long time he has been posting here. He wasn’t banned for “Harpy” but it was oddly the final nail. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/90 "2020-05-14T15:14:14Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry, but I disagree that calling a specific woman a “harpy” somehow insults all women, everywhere. I blame Martin Scorsese. Relax. This is just a place-holder. Means _nothing._ ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/91 "2020-05-14T15:15:31Z")
What Exit? is correct. I’m surprised to have to repeat this but here we go: No banning nor suspension is ever unilateral. The process is straightforward but also collaborationist. 1. Some moderator gives a warning or otherwise notes some rule breaking. 2. If moderator realizes there’s an ongoing problem - multiple notes, warnings, spamming whatever - he or she brings it to the mid loop. 3. Discussion occurs. Often objections are raised early about further sanction - suspension or banning - and that’s the end of it. 4. If the discussion goes against the poster in question a vote is taken. 5. A last effort akin to ‘Does anyone have any objections to a suspension/ban?’ is made. 6. If none are mentioned, suspending/banning goes forward. So, really, to get banned several steps need to occur. One needs to get in trouble enough to earn warnings. One then needs to do so in a way in which one mod or another needs to notice the pattern (a variety of warnings in different fora might not be noticed as a pattern). THEN the mod in question needs to bring it to the mod loop. THEN no one of the mods should raise for discussion any extenuating circumstance. THEN the poster must survive a final vote. THEN no last minute objections must be raised. It’s really HARD to get banned. Most posters spend their entire lives on the SDMB without ever earning a warning. Really, the efforts to blame Shodan’s banning on ‘board culture’ or ‘moderation staff bias’ or ‘one mod who disliked him’ is just silly. Shodan had agency. He had control over what he posted and how he behaved. No one made him say warnable, jerkish, trollish things. He did it because he enjoyed it. To blame his banning on anything else is to look for a reason outside of himself as a focal point of blame when really, the only blame is his and his alone. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/92 "2020-05-14T15:16:20Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > To revisit this, the real tragedy here is that he used it in a subordinate clause. It wasn’t subject or predicate of the sentence. Without the ‘Harvard Harpy’ phrase the sentence would have made his argument just as clearly - and, frankly, more concisely. > > But no, he had to take the sexist shot in there that served no language nor argumentative purpose at all. To me, the “harpy” was just one more thing that made the whole post blatant trolling. Like Left Hand Of Dorkness, I used to like Shodan. I could talk to him. But over the last couple years, he just got gross. Angry, snide, crude, hyperbolic, and intellectually dishonest. I stopped engaging with him. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/93 "2020-05-14T15:24:11Z")
Yes, banning of established posters requires a consensus of all of the mods. We’re capable of doing it unilaterally (as in, the buttons exist), but we don’t. The only time an individual moderator will ban without consultation with other mods is for spammers (who are common), trolls who are immediately obvious (who are rare), and for unambiguous sock accounts (and even there, there’s usually some back-and-forth with other mods to be sure of the evidence). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/94 "2020-05-14T15:24:12Z")
Yes, banning of established posters requires a consensus of all of the mods. We’re capable of doing it unilaterally (as in, the buttons exist), but we don’t. The only time an individual moderator will ban without consultation with other mods is for spammers (who are common), trolls who are immediately obvious (who are rare), and for unambiguous sock accounts (and even there, there’s usually some back-and-forth with other mods to be sure of the evidence). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/95 "2020-05-14T15:33:44Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m here to be convinced. What other trait had this woman shown that led to the epithet’s use? Who knows? You’d have to ask Shodan. Oh that’s right you can’t :rolleyes: My point being that calling one specific woman a harpy doesn’t insult all women, everywhere, no more than calling one specific man a “prick” insults all men, everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/96 "2020-05-14T16:04:33Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Who knows? You’d have to ask Shodan. Oh that’s right you can’t :rolleyes: Nah. I’m pretty comfortable that my explanation is correct: he never gave me a reason to believe otherwise. You were suggesting there was an alternative explanation, but apparently you don’t actually have one. > [@](#): > > My point being that calling one specific woman a harpy doesn’t insult all women, everywhere, no more than calling one specific man a “prick” insults all men, everywhere. That’s not how history of social inequality and oppression works. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/97 "2020-05-14T16:04:33Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That seems like a stretch. Because to me, it looks like he thinks that particular woman is, in your words, a “squawking filthy monstrosity.” I’m not sure how you conclude that it means he thinks ALL women whose opinions differ from his are “squawking filthy monstronsit[ies]” The point is that the word “harpy” has very specific behavioral connotations as well as being specifically gendered. It means a female creature carrying out a disgusting and vicious gratuitous attack. Of course, there **are** women who carry out disgusting and vicious gratuitous attacks, and I don’t think people do or should get into serious trouble for calling them “harpies”. If someone responds to a particularly nasty malicious diatribe by, say, Ann Coulter or Jenny McDermott by calling her a “harpy”, I doubt they’d get banned for it. But the researcher that **Shodan** attacked was merely discussing some of the dangers of unsupervised homeschooling and proposing that it be more strictly regulated. She wasn’t insulting anybody, she wasn’t being disgusting or vicious or gratuitously attacking anybody in any way. What she was doing was merely being a woman (and especially a middle-aged woman) expressing a reasoned and reasonable opinion that **Shodan** didn’t agree with. The only reason to call her a “harpy” was to get the misogyny-power boost of denigrating her gender, and by extension, all the other people who share her gender. I don’t see why the SDMB should be expected to consider that legitimate debate. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/98 "2020-05-14T16:05:39Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think **Unreconstructed Man** had a very valid point when he opined that had \*\*Shodan \*\*called Betsy DeVos (or Melania/Ivanka Trump) a harpy, he wouldn’t be banned. A counterfactual is not a very valid point. I am 100% sure someone would get sanctioned for doing the above. We can’t actually know because it is an imaginary event produced by a heavily biased imagination desperate to scrape up imaginary evidence of a double standard. If we’re talking about real things that actually happened, a couple of years ago we thrashed out whether it was appropriate for Samantha Bee to call Ivanka Trump a feckless cunt. Here on the board we were divided over the “feckless” characterization, but unanimous that “cunt” was a bridge too far. Bee herself apologized and retracted later. Counterfactuals are bunk arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/99 "2020-05-14T16:10:43Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Really, the efforts to blame Shodan’s banning on ‘board culture’ or ‘moderation staff bias’ or ‘one mod who disliked him’ is just silly. Shodan had agency. He had control over what he posted and how he behaved. No one made him say warnable, jerkish, trollish things. He did it because he enjoyed it. To blame his banning on anything else is to look for a reason outside of himself as a focal point of blame when really, the only blame is his and his alone. This logic is silly - a false dichotomy. (To illustrate - Emmett Till “had agency”, and “no one made him” whistle at a white woman.) The fact that someone had agency in doing some action doesn’t contradict the notion that the reaction to that action was inappropriate. [Interestingly, there’s another thread at this time in ATMB in which several posters - including some Board Certified Liberals - are expressing considerable confusion over just what is or is not acceptable in terms of “misogynistic” terms on this MB.] ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763/100 "2020-05-14T16:24:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > (To illustrate - Emmett Till “had agency”, and “no one made him” whistle at a white woman.) Thank you for your “contribution” to the board. We are all better people for having read this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-shodan/853763.md?page=6)