# The Banning of Starving Artist **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 1, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291 "2018-10-01T23:18:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/41 "2018-10-02T04:05:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > …Banning people due to popular demand is a really bad idea. … I agree with this. All the “+1” crap and this thread with all the “thank you mods” gives this place a distinctive mob rule vibe. I don’t _think_ the mods caved to peer / poster pressure, but I wish I was more sure of that. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/42 "2018-10-02T04:06:24Z")
I’ve been here since 2002 and I’m pretty sure I haven’t been a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/43 "2018-10-02T04:07:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I agree with this. All the “+1” crap and this thread with all the “thank you mods” gives this place a distinctive mob rule vibe. > > I don’t _think_ the mods caved to peer / poster pressure, but I wish I was more sure of that. No, they totally did. It definitely wasn’t the misogyny. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/44 "2018-10-02T04:12:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I agree with this. All the “+1” crap and this thread with all the “thank you mods” gives this place a distinctive mob rule vibe. > > I don’t _think_ the mods caved to peer / poster pressure, but I wish I was more sure of that. It _is_ a business. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/45 "2018-10-02T04:14:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > All the “+1” crap and this thread with all the “thank you mods” gives this place a distinctive mob rule vibe. > > I don’t _think_ the mods caved to peer / poster pressure, but I wish I was more sure of that. What would make you more sure? What more do you feel needed to be seen from **Starving Artist** in order to give him a fair chance? **Starving Artist** spent a great deal of time and effort around here making himself pretty much universally despised. I don’t see what’s “mob rule vibe” about multiple expressions of approval when a universally despised poster finally gets banned. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/46 "2018-10-02T04:15:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I agree with this. All the “+1” crap and this thread with all the “thank you mods” gives this place a distinctive mob rule vibe. > > I don’t _think_ the mods caved to peer / poster pressure, but I wish I was more sure of that. If you believe he was banned due to mob rule, then I’m guessing you don’t see the misogyny. We are thanking the mods for removing a blight upon our community that made a lot of us uncomfortable. He didn’t make you uncomfortable, or make you feel like a wiser choice would be “leave” rather than “stay.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/47 "2018-10-02T04:28:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What would make you more sure? … Oh, I don’t know, perhaps a statement from the mods along the lines of “quit wasting your time with calling for some posters’ banning, if you have a problem, report it and we’ll decide, but we don’t ban people due to popular demand” (if that’s actually true) or perhaps better yet, a rule against advocating for the banning of posters, possibly outside of particular forums (just spitballing ideas here). It just seems a little unseemly to have various posters of a particular political persuasion cry out with various forms of “ban him” against a poster of another political persuasion, and then the mods come along a couple of days later and do choose to ban him. Doesn’t look good for the cameras. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/48 "2018-10-02T04:30:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Oh, I don’t know, perhaps a statement from the mods along the lines of “quit wasting your time with calling for some posters’ banning, if you have a problem, report it and we’ll decide, but we don’t ban people due to popular demand” (if that’s actually true) or perhaps better yet, a rule against advocating for the banning of posters, possibly outside of particular forums (just spitballing ideas here). > > It just seems a little unseemly to have various posters of a particular political persuasion cry out with various forms of “ban him” against a poster of another political persuasion, and then the mods come along a couple of days later and do choose to ban him. Doesn’t look good for the cameras. That, combined with all the explicit references to money, made it feel borderline extortionate. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/49 "2018-10-02T04:33:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Oh, I don’t know, perhaps a statement from the mods along the lines of “quit wasting your time with calling for some posters’ banning, if you have a problem, report it and we’ll decide, but we don’t ban people due to popular demand” (if that’s actually true) or perhaps better yet, a rule against advocating for the banning of posters, possibly outside of particular forums (just spitballing ideas here). > > It just seems a little unseemly to have various posters of a particular political persuasion cry out with various forms of “ban him” against a poster of another political persuasion, and then the mods come along a couple of days later and do choose to ban him. Doesn’t look good for the cameras. He wasn’t banned because of his political affiliation. He was banned because his attitude toward women. Had a ‘liberal’ poster been spouting such misogynistic crap (and I am under no misapprehension: There are plenty of liberal arseholes out there too) I would duly call out their behaviour as well and would applaud their banning. Y’know, not everything is political. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/50 "2018-10-02T04:36:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Oh, I don’t know, perhaps a statement from the mods along the lines of “quit wasting your time with calling for some posters’ banning, if you have a problem, report it and we’ll decide, but we don’t ban people due to popular demand” (if that’s actually true) or perhaps better yet, a rule against advocating for the banning of posters, possibly outside of particular forums (just spitballing ideas here). > > It just seems a little unseemly to have various posters of a particular political persuasion cry out with various forms of “ban him” against a poster of another political persuasion, and then the mods come along a couple of days later and do choose to ban him. Doesn’t look good for the cameras. Yes. It was politically motivated. Good eye. The misogyny and jerkishness had nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/51 "2018-10-02T04:36:29Z")
We don’t ban people due to popular demand. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/52 "2018-10-02T04:40:21Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > We don’t ban people due to popular demand. Ahh, there, see, I feel better already 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/53 "2018-10-02T04:46:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It just seems a little unseemly to have various posters of a particular political persuasion cry out with various forms of “ban him” against a poster of another political persuasion, and then the mods come along a couple of days later and do choose to ban him. Doesn’t look good for the cameras. :dubious: “A couple of days later”? You’re new around here, comparatively, but posters have been repeatedly advocating **Starving Artist** ’s banning since at least [2012](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=640406), if not [2008](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=487610). A [post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10333459&postcount=316) by **Mr. Svinlesha** from that 2008 thread illustrates how persistently **Starving Artist** ’s been using the same old deceptive gimmicks for a decade or more: > [@Mr. Svinlesha](#): > > When we provide mounds of evidence – photos, films, etc – which show how racist and and uncivilized the right has been throughout US history (including film of average McCain supporters standing in line for a rally with, for example, an Obama monkey doll), **SA** waves it all away as not being “typical” of society at the time. Then he turns around and accuses liberals of supporting the most ridiculous, extreme sort of policies because of some vague memory he has that at some point in the past, somewhere, he read something about someone who felt that way. Our examples are never typical of right-wing conservative thought/behavior, regardless of how widespread they were; his examples are always typical of left-wing liberal thought/behavior, regardless of how rarely they occurred. > > And he’s genuinely uninterested in know what liberals really think. I mean, it couldn’t be that hard to simply ask here, on a board he claims leans so terribly hard to the left, whether or not the majority of posters think it would racist to ban the Crips. He doesn’t care what we really think; he just wants to demonize us. > > Another fun trick **SA** likes to play is the “modify my argument” game. […] > > Suddenly, evidence presented contrary to his position doesn’t count, because he was talking about something different. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/54 "2018-10-02T05:01:21Z")
**SA** , banned? But he[just bought a Charter Membership](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21235882&postcount=117)… ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/55 "2018-10-02T05:02:37Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > **SA** , banned? But he[just bought a Charter Membership](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21235882&postcount=117)… Oh my. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/56 "2018-10-02T05:06:46Z")
I confess that I had some concern before learning about the warnings. I can’t say I do now. > [@Kimstu](#): > > I get how it could be argued that if **SA** was sincere in his opinions, and not cussing or insulting people in the wrong forum, then he shouldn’t be banned just for essentially being a shit debater, and certainly not just based on the content of his sincere opinions. After all, we’ve had many posters over the years who weren’t exactly rapier (no pun intended) wits. > > But I think there’s an argument to be made that if somebody is constantly blundering into fencing matches and punching the combatants until they get angry enough to start punching him back, you don’t give him a pass for that just because he’s no good at handling a sword. Someone who’s perpetually trying to turn a fencing match into a fistfight because he feels better equipped to handle fistfights is, effectively, trolling the fencers, no matter how sincere his feelings of antagonism may be. Not saying this is why he is banned. But if he was banned for being a shit debater while _simultaneously_ trampling all over hot button issues connected with Karl Popper’s [Paradox of Tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance), then seeing him go doesn’t sound awful. Especially when he was given ample chance to present his case. I’m not claiming that there’s been a shift in mod policy w.r.t SA. But it’s been becoming clear over the past few years that on the internet and after a certain point attention becomes a scarce resource. So if the board took a few baby steps in that direction, towards denying platform for certain views after a certain span of time, I don’t know whether I’d object. I would have 6 years ago. But that was then. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/57 "2018-10-02T05:13:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Oh, I don’t know, perhaps a statement from the mods along the lines of "quit wasting your time with calling for some posters’ banning, if you have a problem, report it and we’ll decide, I’m not sure how you could make such a request if you have been paying any attention at all. We have said things along these lines many many times in this forum. We don’t ban people on the basis of their unpopularity, or how many times they have been Pitted. If we did so, **Starving Artist** would have been banned a decade ago. And quite a few other posters would have been banned a long time ago as well. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It just seems a little unseemly to have various posters of a particular political persuasion cry out with various forms of “ban him” against a poster of another political persuasion, You seem to be under the false impression that extreme and offensive misogyny is a political persuasion. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > then the mods come along a couple of days later and do choose to ban him. Doesn’t look good for the cameras. **Starving Artist** was warned and suspended right away. Of course, when someone behaves in an extremely jerkish manner, people are likely to call for sanctions. Our decision was reached after several days of discussions,and our reasons are given in some detail in **Jonathan Chance’s** banning announcement. If you believe we are misrepresenting the process, I guess nothing I can say can persuade you otherwise. But we do not ban people just because other posters advocate it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/58 "2018-10-02T05:24:00Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > But if he was banned for being a shit debater while _simultaneously_ trampling all over hot button issues connected with Karl Popper’s [Paradox of Tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance), then seeing him go doesn’t sound awful. Especially when he was given ample chance to present his case. I think this might be described as **SA** ’s [William Orville Hicks](https://archive.org/details/prodigioushicke00presgoog/page/n12) moment. A shit-stirrer can get so caught up in the effort to keep their shit-stirring juuuuuust within the letter of the law that they forget that it’s nonetheless quite apparent that what they’re doing is stirring the shit. But at some point, the authorities who are trying to promote something more constructive lose their patience with the constant stirring of the shit, and boot the shit-stirrer out. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/59 "2018-10-02T05:35:00Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I’m not claiming that there’s been a shift in mod policy w.r.t SA. But it’s been becoming clear over the past few years that on the internet and after a certain point attention becomes a scarce resource. So if the board took a few baby steps in that direction, towards denying platform for certain views after a certain span of time, I don’t know whether I’d object. I would have 6 years ago. But that was then. Society is evolving towards more acceptance and inclusiveness of people who are not straight white males. Way too many straight white males are fighting too hard to keep their #1 position thinking, wrongly, that if others become more equal to them they somehow diminish. This is the opposite of reality. When everyone is on an equal footing then society will become fuller and richer and an overall better place to exist in. Each generation is becoming more tolerant of people different from themselves. The older straight white males are not liking this change because it is different from how it was for them. And people hate change. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/60 "2018-10-02T05:53:24Z")
Mods, thank you, thank you, thank you! And the post by Jonathon Chance was superb. I’m vastly relieved and reassured. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291.md?page=4)