# The Banning of Starving Artist **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 1, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291 "2018-10-01T23:18:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/102 "2018-10-02T13:49:35Z")
Dammit. What part of ‘Leave HD out of this’ was I unclear on? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/103 "2018-10-02T13:55:03Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Well you know 1960 was a great time in America as long as you were a white male and preferably Christian. Women loved being pinched on the behind, they knew it was a compliment and were thankful when they got their M.R.S. degree so they could enjoy being a homemaker. Yes sir, those were the days. The first season of _Mad Men_ is aspirational. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/104 "2018-10-02T13:55:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Dammit. What part of ‘Leave HD out of this’ was I unclear on? Sorry, didn’t see your earlier post before posting. My bad; I’ll take my lumps. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/105 "2018-10-02T13:59:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Many people have been jerks. I have been a jerk. > > Most long term posters here have been. > > If we banned everyone the first time they were jerk, we’d have no board. “first time” AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Elliot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jane_elliot/32/6166_2.png) [@Jane\_Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/106 "2018-10-02T14:12:22Z")
To the Mods - Thank you for making the tough decisions, and thank you for making this a better place today. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/107 "2018-10-02T15:12:35Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Thinking? > > Don’t give us too much credit. We’re a hive mind. Like ants. Individually? Don’t hope for much. And Tuba is the queen? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/108 "2018-10-02T15:15:56Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Every forum worth the title deals with trolls. People who are not interested in or capable of rational discussion. **Starving Artist** made [this post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21195056&highlight=bra%EDnwashed#post21195056). Trolling? Maybe, maybe not - but either way, his opinions are horrendous and incredibly offensive to many of the people here, and perhaps more importantly, he’s _unwilling to debate them in a manner anywhere nearing honestly_. And at that point, he’s got to go, as there is clearly no point in further discussion and he’s alienating the people who actually _are_ there for reasonable discussion. > > What, exactly, is the point of “freedom of expression” in a discussion forum? No, seriously, think about it. What is it there for? If I want that, I can go to 4chan. The purpose of free expression here is to have many different viewpoints so that we can debate and learn from each other. A free marketplace of ideas has its value. It’s just that sometimes, that marketplace gets polluted by bad actors who cannot or will not debate honestly. Those people are often referred to as “trolls” and they actively work _against_ reasonable discussion. So fuck 'em. This forum is _really_ bad at spotting trolls. **Clothahump** was here for _18 fucking years_, that’s how bad they are. This is a pleasant step in the right direction and I applaud the mods for their decision. When arguments and the people portraying them are constantly misrepresented it’s a bit hypocritical to expect the target to be held to a higher standard. The fact that clothahump was here for 18 years and Starving Artist for however long points towards more of a general weariness than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/109 "2018-10-02T15:28:57Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Every forum worth the title deals with trolls. People who are not interested in or capable of rational discussion. **Starving Artist** made [this post](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21195056&highlight=bra%EDnwashed#post21195056). Trolling? Maybe, maybe not - but either way, his opinions are horrendous and incredibly offensive to many of the people here, and perhaps more importantly, he’s _unwilling to debate them in a manner anywhere nearing honestly_. And at that point, he’s got to go, as there is clearly no point in further discussion and he’s alienating the people who actually _are_ there for reasonable discussion. > > What, exactly, is the point of “freedom of expression” in a discussion forum? No, seriously, think about it. What is it there for? If I want that, I can go to 4chan. The purpose of free expression here is to have many different viewpoints so that we can debate and learn from each other. A free marketplace of ideas has its value. It’s just that sometimes, that marketplace gets polluted by bad actors who cannot or will not debate honestly. Those people are often referred to as “trolls” and they actively work _against_ reasonable discussion. So fuck 'em. This forum is _really_ bad at spotting trolls. **Clothahump** was here for _18 fucking years_, that’s how bad they are. This is a pleasant step in the right direction and I applaud the mods for their decision. **Clothahump** wasn’t a troll. He had unpopular and all too often stupid opinions but he really doesn’t fit any reasonable definition of a troll. Maybe at the end hie did some trolling when he got too frustrated? I’m not sure, I wasn’t following too closely the last few years, but Clothy was fine in The Cafe, IMHO and MPSIMS. He wasn’t prone to derailing fluffy threads like many of our past trolls. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/110 "2018-10-02T15:30:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > When arguments and the people portraying them are constantly misrepresented it’s a bit hypocritical to expect the target to be held to a higher standard. The fact that clothahump was here for 18 years and Starving Artist for however long points towards more of a general weariness than anything else. \*\*SA \*\*somehow skirted the Don’t be a jerk rule for most of his time here, I don’t actually understand exactly how. Clothy was a different case. Trump seems to have pushed him over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/111 "2018-10-02T15:45:46Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > When arguments and the people portraying them are constantly misrepresented it’s a bit hypocritical to expect the target to be held to a higher standard. The fact that clothahump was here for 18 years and Starving Artist for however long points towards more of a general weariness than anything else. As I mentioned in the other thread, past a certain point, if _everyone_ is misinterpreting what you’re saying, that’s on you. Either tragically everyone in the forum is against you/too dumb to understand what you’re saying… Or you’re putting your opinion forward in a really bad way that makes it hard to understand. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > **Clothahump** wasn’t a troll. He had unpopular and all too often stupid opinions but he really doesn’t fit any reasonable definition of a troll. Maybe at the end hie did some trolling when he got too frustrated? I’m not sure, I wasn’t following too closely the last few years, but Clothy was fine in The Cafe, IMHO and MPSIMS. He wasn’t prone to derailing fluffy threads like many of our past trolls. Well, okay, let’s put it another way - **Clothahump** consistently posted the worst and dumbest post in _any_ political thread he participated in. He then proceeded to either disappear or show that he wasn’t listening or interested in any of our arguments. Best case scenario: nobody engaged. I know **Not Carlson** tried _extensively_ to get _something_ resembling understanding out of him, with a degree of patience I find very impressive, and eventually gave up. If he wasn’t actually a troll, the effect on political threads was virtually indistinguishable. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/112 "2018-10-02T15:54:02Z")
> [@Wee\_Todd](#): > > I’m just thinking of the swine, man. It wasn’t my suggestion that anyone be fed to swine. Just that if you do that, it’s best to leave the genitals on, because otherwise it’s like feeding muffin stumps to homeless people. !!! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/113 "2018-10-02T16:06:58Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > … > Well, okay, let’s put it another way - **Clothahump** consistently posted the worst and dumbest post in _any_ political thread he participated in. He then proceeded to either disappear or show that he wasn’t listening or interested in any of our arguments. Best case scenario: nobody engaged. I know **Not Carlson** tried _extensively_ to get _something_ resembling understanding out of him, with a degree of patience I find very impressive, and eventually gave up. If he wasn’t actually a troll, the effect on political threads was virtually indistinguishable. OK, I can’t argue that. Honestly the political threads are barely tolerable with or without Clothy. We have posters on all ends of the spectrum that either nitpick and parse far too much or resort to dismissing alternate opinions and views with name calling. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/114 "2018-10-02T16:35:01Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > As I mentioned in the other thread, past a certain point, if _everyone_ is misinterpreting what you’re saying, that’s on you. Either tragically everyone in the forum is against you/too dumb to understand what you’re saying… Or you’re putting your opinion forward in a really bad way that makes it hard to understand. > > Well, okay, let’s put it another way - **Clothahump** consistently posted the worst and dumbest post in _any_ political thread he participated in. He then proceeded to either disappear or show that he wasn’t listening or interested in any of our arguments. Best case scenario: nobody engaged. I know **Not Carlson** tried _extensively_ to get _something_ resembling understanding out of him, with a degree of patience I find very impressive, and eventually gave up. If he wasn’t actually a troll, the effect on political threads was virtually indistinguishable. It doesn’t have to be everyone or even a majority. A persistent, vocal minority is all that is needed to shape a narrative. I’m not saying that some of Starving Artist’s viewpoints weren’t anachronistic or that he consistently engaged in a productive debate, but others deliberately misrepresenting his viewpoint as a deliberate and long term tactic is also wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/115 "2018-10-02T16:45:03Z")
It’s impossible to say you’ve never been a jerk because jerkishness is in the eye of the beholder. However, some actions are universally regarded as so beyond the pale that most people can reasonably predict that most others will regard them as jerkish. Things like mooning the deceased at a funeral, throwing quarters at the bride and groom at a wedding, or trying to discredit a sexual abuse victim by fucking a paper towel roll. Especially the last one, come to think of it. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/116 "2018-10-02T16:57:03Z")
I don’t post often, but I check the SD for interesting discussions multiple times a day. I have done so since the late 1990s. This was a good decision by the mods, and long overdue. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/117 "2018-10-02T17:05:30Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Well, okay, let’s put it another way - **Clothahump** consistently posted the worst and dumbest post in _any_ political thread he participated in. He then proceeded to either disappear or show that he wasn’t listening or interested in any of our arguments. Best case scenario: nobody engaged. I know **Not Carlson** tried _extensively_ to get _something_ resembling understanding out of him, with a degree of patience I find very impressive, and eventually gave up. If he wasn’t actually a troll, the effect on political threads was virtually indistinguishable. I, for one, argued that he be placed on a board-wide political topic ban. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/118 "2018-10-02T17:09:49Z")
I’m sure I’m not the first to mention it on the boards, but it hasn’t been covered in this thread, so I’d just like to say that to all those who are concerned about the board staff shutting down free speech possibly causing people to leave, even if that were true, decisions like this one are not an example of that, and in fact are likely to encourage more members/participation. I think the emergence of a few posters in this thread with old join dates and low post counts is already evidence of that. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/119 "2018-10-02T17:47:07Z")
The only thing we’re missing out on is a good flouncing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/120 "2018-10-02T18:13:37Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I’m reasonably sure I have; some times unintentionally (language fails), some times because I was having a bad brain day. But I haven’t made a career of it. True. Anyone with a warning has been a jerk. But no, Nava, you’re Ok in my book. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291/121 "2018-10-02T18:20:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > True. Anyone with a warning has been a jerk. But no, Nava, you’re Ok in my book. Nava, todo es bueno in my book _and_ movie.🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-banning-of-starving-artist/822291.md?page=7)