# The barren Borders bookstore **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 29, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096 "2009-05-29T22:21:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/41 "2009-06-01T21:02:19Z")
I recently went to the Borders in Watchung, NJ, and it was exactly as **Maeglin** described. > [@TWDuke](#): > > Some wild guesses, which could be completely wrong. > > 1. There was some kind of accessibility issue related to the Americans with Disabilities Act or local ordinances that required wider aisles, fewer obstructions, and greater visibility of the exits. > 2. Similar to (1), but involving the fire marshal and safety regulations. > 3. Management has decided keep less inventory on hand (because sales are down, or simply for the sake of efficiency), and thought it would look better to have fewer shelves than have shelves that were only half full. > 4. Some genius in marketing decided that shoppers prefer wide open stores over cramped spaces. > 5. Fewer shelves makes it easier for employees and/or security cameras to spot thieves and/or vandals. In response to each guess: 1. This was far far beyond what would be required for that stuff. You could have maneuvered hospital gurneys in there. 2. See #1 3. That’s possible, but it’s very easy to make books take up more space–just increase the number of books that are “face-out” vs. “spine-out.” Face-out books generally sell better, too. But at the Borders where I was, I actually noticed how _few_ books were faced out. 4. See #1 5. See #1 I’m tellin’ ya. It was really really really empty in there. I’m interested in retail merchandising in general, and this was absolutely abnormal. I don’t want to go back, because it felt creepy and weird. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/42 "2009-06-01T21:08:57Z")
> [@Levolor\_the\_Blind](#): > > I was just at the one here in Boise and the DVD / CD section has been emptied out. There was a note about remodeling. Uhhh, how was the Braille department doing for stock? ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/43 "2009-06-02T03:02:04Z")
> [@h.sapiens](#): > > I usually go to Borders for a few magazines that are published in the UK and that the smaller bookstore down the street doesn’t carry. Buying them at the store actually costs less than subscribing would be. If the Oak Park Borders goes away, I have to find a B&N nearby for my monthly British photo magazine fix. I have the same issue with British knitting magazine…only Borders carries it. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/44 "2009-06-02T03:26:22Z")
oops ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/45 "2009-06-02T10:58:31Z")
Shopped last night at the Borders in South Charlotte. Was curious to see what it was like. It definitely is drawn down in stock, and they had some sections in the middle of “reorganization.” The DVD/CD section is being shrunk down; it used to be most of the upper floor and is now only about a third of it. Barnes and Noble across the street was having no such issues, and that’s despite the fact that there is another Barnes and Noble just down the street two blocks, for no discernable reason. ---
**Author:** ![ColonelDax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@ColonelDax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColonelDax)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/46 "2009-06-02T14:48:45Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > I heard that Borders in the US was going down the tubes some time last year. I sincerely hope it doesn’t affect their Aussie operations because they get all my book buying business now. The Aussie business is separate from the U.S. company - Borders agreed in June of last year to sell its stores in Australia, New Zealand and Singapore to retailer A&R Whitcoulls, which in turn is owned by private-equity firm Pacific Equity Partners. ---
**Author:** ![KSO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/47 "2009-06-02T15:16:58Z")
> [@JuliaSqueezer](#): > > Oh dear. Just yesterday I stopped at the local B&N and bought several books and magazines. I do this maybe 2-3 times a year, because I buy most books online or download to my Kindle. > > The guy at the cash register was just relentless about my joining their discount club. I (politely) said no, not interested. He got snotty… “must be nice, turning down X$ in discounts you would have gotten today if you’d joined”. > > I walked out of there thinking to myself that I must avoid this B&N in the future and do my bricks-and-mortar book shopping at the Borders about 5 miles away. Now I wonder if the Borders store is even open! I would have been so tempted to just say “You know what? Forget it, I’m not buying a damn thing.” The weird thing about my local public library is that the selection really kind of sucks. There’s lots of new popular fiction that you have to wait to get your hands on, a lousy selection of non-fiction, and then there’s all kinds of 70’s fiction by authors you’ve never heard of but which is interesting in a cultural time capsule sort of way. I read a novel by a woman that, swear to Og, went on at length about her “frigidity” which was “cured” once she met the right man. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/48 "2009-06-02T15:21:40Z")
I don’t really buy at stores anymore–either I use the library or I buy used online. I don’t mind small, independent bookstores, but I rarely buy from B&N. Well, not entirely true–my brother works there so sometimes I buy stuff here that’s discounted. And man, I totally would have walked out if someone had said that to me, **JuliaSqueezer**. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/49 "2009-06-02T15:42:40Z")
So does anyone know why Borders is suffering more then Barnes and Nobel? Not as developed an online store? I always liked Borders better, as the ones around me anyways always had larger math, science and computer sections then Barnes and Nobles. I’d be sad to see them go. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/50 "2009-06-02T16:58:31Z")
Speaking just from my observations as a customer, Borders was always much more oriented to browsing and hanging out. B&N typically had fewer chairs and a somewhat less diverse selection; they seem smaller as well. Also, my understanding from folks who have worked at both is that B&N is much more leanly staffed. That made Borders a much nicer place to shop, in my estimation, but given the shock of the current economy, it was affected more than B&N. Plus, B&N makes you pay for your discount card, which then offers significant discounts, which means if they get you to sign up they’ve captured you very effectively. Borders gives it away for free but doesn’t have the same great benefits which B&N finances through its membership fees. So Borders fanciers who happen to be near a B&N will just as soon buy from there; not the other way around. B&N also has a web store; Borders didn’t for several years. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/51 "2009-06-02T17:57:51Z")
Borders at Plaza Las Américas (San Juan’s mega-Mall) shows some reduction in the DVD department, significant cutdown of CDs, a substantial enlargement of the Bargain section and some minor loss of total shelving footage (therefore less new inventory total). At the Carolina, PR store, here one can see that there was a reorganization of the shelving layout that noticeably reduced total shelf space; CD section reduced, DVDs only minor cutdown but the section was much smaller to start with. Borders-PR does have the peculiarity of a very large Spanish-language inventory. The mall-style bookstore a-la Waldenbooks never fared too well in PR historically, even for the many years Before Borders the most successful mall bookstore was really an indie in organization and philosophy once you got inside it. One of the major drawbacks of Borders PR is that for special-ordering it’s easier for us to get stuff from Amazon or BN-online directly; an in-store special order easily takes weeks or over a month, if it even comes. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/52 "2009-06-03T08:39:59Z")
I think it’s a shame if Borders goes to far with it’s inventory reduction and chair removal. There’s a significant factor of ambience involved in the look and feel of lots of inventory and a store packed full of customers. Even if the people sitting down aren’t buying, and the extra inventory isn’t selling, a store that “looks” well off and busy is much more attractive to customers. If it starts emptying out it will get the “stink of death” and people will be turned off to coming in as much. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/53 "2009-06-03T16:34:48Z")
B&N will come out on top because Leonard Riggio is a very smart and very ruthless owner. It’s not just that he pioneered many of the aspects of chain bookstores that we take for granted today but that he always found other less publicized but solidly profitable niches to help the main business. > **[Barnes & Noble](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes_%26_noble)** > > Barnes & Noble Booksellers is an American bookseller with the largest number of retail outlets in the United States. The company operates approximately 700+ retail stores across the United States. > Barnes & Noble operates mainly through its Barnes & Noble Booksellers chain of bookstores. The company's headquarters are at 33 E. 17th Street on Union Square in New York City. > As a result of a series of mergers and bankruptcies in the American bookstore industry since the 1990s (notably the liquid... > [@](#): > > The business was purchased in 1971 by Leonard Riggio, who oversaw the growth of the business. In 1974, Barnes & Noble became the first bookstore to advertise on TV, and a year later, the company became the first bookseller in America to discount books, by selling New York Times best-selling titles at 40% off the publishers’ list price.[5] During the 1970s and 1980s, Barnes & Noble opened smaller discount stores, which were eventually phased out in favor of larger stores. > > They also began to publish their own books to be sold to mail-order customers. These titles were primarily affordable reissues of out-of-print titles, and selling them through mail-order catalogs allowed Barnes & Noble to reach new customers nationwide. In addition, Barnes & Noble College Booksellers operates at more than 600 colleges, almost as many stores as the 800 regular ones. Nothing like a captive audience to improve your profit margin. Profit margins are the unfortunate reality of businesses, much as I love comfortable chairs. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/54 "2009-06-03T16:44:59Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > B&N will come out on top because Leonard Riggio is a very smart and very ruthless owner. It’s not just that he pioneered many of the aspects of chain bookstores that we take for granted today but that he always found other less publicized but solidly profitable niches to help the main business. Riggio also bought GameStop in its early years (when it was still known as Babbage’s) and made a huge chunk of money before GameStop became it’s own company and stopped being a subsidary of B&N. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/55 "2009-06-03T20:36:37Z")
I’ve seen area Barnes and Nobles drastically cut back on their stock of CDs in the past year or so. I used to buy quite a few classical CDs there, but it’s not even worthwhile browsing there anymore. [QUOTE=JuliaSqueezer] The guy at the (B&N) cash register was just relentless about my joining their discount club. I (politely) said no, not interested. He got snotty… “must be nice, turning down X$ in discounts you would have gotten today if you’d joined”. [/QUOTE] I loathe these come-ons for discount cards, whether at B&N or other places. If I had a register clerk that pushy I’d be sorely tempted to walk out without buying anything. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/56 "2009-06-06T06:31:49Z")
They did more rearranging this week! They put a bunch of books on the DVD wall where the DVDs used to be and put a whole bunch of upright bookshelf sections in the DVD/music room. They moved all of the shelves that were in the philosophy section somewhere else and no there is just a big hole there. Next to that there are some empty shelves. I wonder where all this is leading… ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/57 "2009-06-11T20:54:51Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > The Borders nearest me looks the same as always. I’ll probably go to the one in Methuen, MA tomorrow, and will report back if I do. Our plans got postponed twice, and I only got there this weekend. They’re remodeling the Methuen store, so it does look a bit sparse at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/58 "2009-06-11T21:05:19Z")
I went back to my local Borders, who last time had a sign that they were remodeling, to find that they eliminated all of the music and DVDs ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/59 "2009-06-11T21:09:09Z")
> [@JuliaSqueezer](#): > > The guy at the cash register was just relentless about my joining their discount club. I (politely) said no, not interested. He got snotty… “must be nice, turning down X$ in discounts you would have gotten today if you’d joined”. > > I walked out of there thinking to myself that I must avoid this B&N in the future and do my bricks-and-mortar book shopping at the Borders about 5 miles away. Now I wonder if the Borders store is even open! I had a similar experience at B&N. I told the guy behind the counter that not only was I not interested in the discount club, but I was not interested in completing the current transaction. I left the fifty bucks worth of books on the counter and left the store. ---
**Author:** ![koeeoaddi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/koeeoaddi/32/408_2.png) [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096/60 "2009-06-11T21:35:31Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > …I loathe these come-ons for discount cards, whether at B&N or other places. If I had a register clerk that pushy I’d be sorely tempted to walk out without buying anything. “Will you be saving 10% today with your discount card?” Jebus, I don’t know how many times I had to say that in the years I worked at B&N. Make no mistake, though, not only does your job depend on saying it to every single customer, but your performance is rated _every day_ by how many of the things you sell. If you don’t make your quota for the week you get a yard of [del]shit[/del] encouragement. If you continue to fall short, you get fired. …and God help you if you forget to recite the little spiel and a manager is behind you, or a secret shopper is in front of you. Except for the obnoxious gung-ho few, I think I can safely say that we hate saying it as much as you hate hearing it. …oh, and will you need any gift cards today? 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-barren-borders-bookstore/498096.md?page=4)