# The Baseball Hall of Fame Class of 2012 thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 5, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178 "2011-12-05T20:58:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/1 "2011-12-05T20:58:33Z")
[There’s a rather thin crop of newly eligible players for the Baseball Hall of Fame in 2012.](http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111122&content_id=26027540&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb) The most notable is Bernie Williams. Other newcomers include Javy Lopez, Tim Salmon, and Ruben Sierra. Whoever’s selected in 2012 is 99.99% guaranteed to be from the large pool of holdovers. These include Jeff Bagwell, Barry Larkin, Jack Morris, Juan Gonzalez, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Dale Murphy, Tim Raines, Alan Trammell, Larry Walker, Mark McGwire, and Rafael Palmeiro. Also, the late Ron Santo has already been selected by the Veteran’s Committee. So, who of the current crop will be or should be selected? Let’s discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/2 "2011-12-05T21:03:32Z")
My ballot: Tim Raines Jeff Bagwell Barry Larkin Edgar Martinez ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/3 "2011-12-05T21:10:51Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Tim Raines > Jeff Bagwell > Barry Larkin > Edgar Martinez Those are the ones I’d vote for, too. I think Trammell has gotten a raw deal, too, but I don’t know enough about him to say he should definitely be in. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/4 "2011-12-05T21:11:18Z")
Raines and Larkin really should be in there. Probably Bagwell, as well, and I really think that Trammell doesn’t get enough credit. Palmiero and McGwire have the stats for entry, but the steroids story may well keep them out forever. Beyond them, I think we have a lot of guys who could make it in someday if they got supporters who really pushed their stories (like Blyleven had), but are by no means slam-dunks. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/5 "2011-12-05T21:11:39Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > My ballot: > > Tim Raines > Jeff Bagwell > Barry Larkin > Edgar Martinez This plus\*\* Lee Smith\*\*, who was incredibly left out of the OP’s list of holdovers. If I could only vote for 4, Smith would replace Raines. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/6 "2011-12-05T21:21:22Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > This plus\*\* Lee Smith\*\*, who was incredibly left out of the OP’s list of holdovers. If I could only vote for 4, Smith would replace Raines. Raines is at the top of my list, and I’d consider Palmeiro and McGwire before putting Lee in. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/7 "2011-12-05T21:32:40Z")
All right, this cracked me up. Here’s the list of notable upcoming candidates from the Wikipedia article. Let’s all play the “one of these things just doesn’t belong” game, shall we? > [@](#): > > 2013: Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa > 2014: Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina, Kenny Rogers, Frank Thomas > 2015: Carlos Delgado, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martínez, Gary Sheffield, John Smoltz > 2016: Jim Edmonds, Ken Griffey, Jr., Trevor Hoffman, Andy Pettitte, Billy Wagner ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/8 "2011-12-05T21:42:58Z")
Kenny Rogers, I guess? As for my ballot: Raines and Larkin are no-brainers. Bagwell and Trammell are solid HoFers. And I could maybe be talked into throwing a vote towards Edgar, even though I hate the DH. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/9 "2011-12-05T21:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > 2013: Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa > 2014: Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina, Kenny Rogers, Frank Thomas > 2015: Carlos Delgado, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martínez, Gary Sheffield, John Smoltz > 2016: Jim Edmonds, Ken Griffey, Jr., Trevor Hoffman, Andy Pettitte, Billy Wagner Hmm…Kenny Rogers or Billy Wagner would probably be the least deserving from that list. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/10 "2011-12-05T21:46:23Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > And I could maybe be talked into throwing a vote towards Edgar, even though I hate the DH. I think that he was an excellent, consistent hitter. If he’d played in the field, even as a horrible right fielder or first baseman, I think he’d have a far better shot than he does; I do believe that there are enough voters who will automatically exclude him because they don’t like the DH rule. ---
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/11 "2011-12-05T21:49:05Z")
I’d vote for: Alan Trammell Tim Raines Jeff Bagwell Barry Larkin Larry Walker Edgar Martinez Terry Mulholland (OK, this last one’s a joke) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/12 "2011-12-05T21:53:59Z")
I was thinking Rogers, though he was better than I remembered; who knew that he won 220 games (almost)? Wagner actually has a decent argument for second-best relief pitcher of all time. He was a lot better inning-for-inning at preventing runs than Hoffman. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/13 "2011-12-05T21:55:01Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > …I do believe that there are enough voters who will automatically exclude him because they don’t like the DH rule. I agree there are voters who will penalize Edgar, but it still blows my mind. An argument could easily be made that the DH, like it or not, is much more important than, say, the closer. It’s been a legitimate position for 30something years. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/14 "2011-12-05T21:57:18Z")
My guess is Larkin makes it in alone. Bagwell pushes up over 60 percent and goes in with Biggio in 2013. How many years do Jack Morris and Tim Raines each have? ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/15 "2011-12-05T22:02:19Z")
2011 voting results for players still eligible. \*\*Player Votes Percent \*\* Barry Larkin 361 62.1 Jack Morris 311 53.5 Lee Smith 263 45.3 Jeff Bagwell 242 41.7 Tim Raines 218 37.5 Edgar Martinez 191 32.9 Alan Trammell 141 24.3 Larry Walker 118 20.3 Mark McGwire 115 19.8 Fred McGriff 104 17.9 Don Mattingly 79 13.6 Dale Murphy 73 12.6 Rafael Palmeiro 64 11.0 Juan González 30 5.2 After seeing his stats, Wagner did have more saves and a lower ERA than I would have guessed. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/16 "2011-12-05T22:23:31Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > This plus\*\* Lee Smith\*\*, who was incredibly left out of the OP’s list of holdovers. If I could only vote for 4, Smith would replace Raines. Sorry about Lee Smith’s omission. I cut-and-pasted a lot of the names from the linked article and Smith’s name wasn’t in the particular paragraph I cut-and-pasted from. In any case, if I had any say, I’d definitely select: Barry Larkin Jeff Bagwell Alan Trammell Edgar Martinez Beyond those four, I’m not sure about who else, if anybody, I’d pick. Raines, Morris, Murphy, and Smith I keep going back-and-forth on whether they belong in the HOF or not. As for McGwire and Palmeiro, the steroid factor looms too large. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/17 "2011-12-05T22:23:56Z")
I’d be looking at Larkin, Trammell, Raines, Morris, Martinez and Smith. Smith was, after all, the all-time saves leader for at least a little while, and for me, being the all-time leader in any major category should count for something. Edgar would be a very worthy candidate as the first pure DH to make the cut. Morris was an elite pitcher his entire career. Raines had the poor taste to be an outstanding lead-off hitter at the same time as that Rickey Henderson guy – I suspect he’d be a no-brainer in just about any other era. Trammell was the best or second best offensive shortstop in the AL virtually his entire career, and Larkin was equally outstanding in the NL and most likely would have picked up 3 or 4 more Gold Gloves had he not been playing in the same league as Ozzie. I always liked Bagwell, Murphy, Walker, and McGriff, but I don’t feel like they’re HoFer material. And the 'roid cases can all get bent. Nobody in that new crop that I think are worthy, however. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/18 "2011-12-05T22:30:12Z")
I’m a little surprised Bagwell didn’t do better last year. Given the percentages that \*\*Barkus \*\*cites, I’ll predict that the writers don’t vote anyone in this year. Somehow the news about Santo had gotten past me. That is good to hear, but it would have been a hell of a lot better if he were still alive. One of these days the Vets committee is going to realize that the people they are dealing with have expiration dates. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/19 "2011-12-05T23:29:27Z")
Luke “The Loner” Gofannon. Anyone who recognizes the reference is my friend. Also Williams, Larkin, Morris, Bagwell. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178/20 "2011-12-06T00:03:57Z")
Bagwell, Larkin, Raines, Trammell, McGwire. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-baseball-hall-of-fame-class-of-2012-thread/605178.md?page=2)