The Batman (some spoilers in the OP)

I had the same experience. I have seen enough MCU movies (and even the DC movies) to be really tired of the “big exploding fly over fight scenes” thing. I also was fully engaged the entire time.

I will admit I have only seen the first Michael Keaton movie, Lego Batman and whichever “recent” one showed his origin story. I guess it was forgettable. So I wasn’t able to dissect anything, just sit there and enjoy it.

To me, as a fan of The Crow, this felt a LOT like The Crow. Dark rainy scenes, night club, the hero being partial to little kids, grunge soundtrack, black face paint. Even the scene where Penguin is yelling “You son of a bitch!” mimics a scene in The Crow that is on the soundtrack.

I haven’t seen anything about the creator being influenced by The Crow (I’ve read a lot about his other influences, they’re all over the IMDB trivia section) but…man, this brought out some 90s feels for me.

I thought Pattinson was good. I didn’t realize he had such a strong jaw. You really need a strong jaw to carry off that Batman cowl.

Also I thought it also gave me a feeling of the NES Batman game. Although with less wall jumping.

Saw last weekend and ended up leaving sort of disappointed.
The kudos and accolades given here I agree with whole heartedly. Great look, great cinematography. Acting was good by everyone. Loved the dark feel and grit of everything.
Buuuut….
For a three hour movie I was really hoping for a more complex noir detective story with a lot of depth. But it was just really basic and obvious plot wise. The whole who-dunit aspect was solved more by process of elimination rather than any real mystery solving or good storytelling.
And without a good story I find myself hard pressed to get invested for 3 hours just based on a great looking film.

I finally got around to watching this, pretty much knowing nothing about it. I really did enjoy the cinematography and the mood, but was annoyed from time to time with how stupid they made Bruce Wayne, or at least with how banal his dialogue was.

I had no idea that was Colin Farrell until I read this thread, what the hell.

Watched it now that it’s streamable. Nothing to add to the reviews given already.

But is it just me or did they try to have Carmine Falcone look like Stan Lee because I definitely get that vibe.

A Stan Lee parody in DC is usually more blatant

Funky Flashman!

I’d like to see what Guillermo del Toro would do with Batman.

I watched this today now that it is streamable. I enjoyed it. To me, this is an origin story, especially if there is a sequel, but it is the origin of the Bruce Wayne persona that the Batman will come to assume. The Riddler wasn’t wrong about the costumed vigilante being the Batman’s true self. However, to make some of the changes Gotham City needs, to operate in the light of day and help people, he also needs to develop the billionaire philanthropist Bruce Wayne persona and take charge of the Wayne Foundation. With the character arc of going from being “vengeance” and inspiring fear, to seeing that the city needs hope, I could easily see Bruce Wayne following up with Mayor Real. The Batman’s failure to prevent the destruction and flooding sets up Bruce Wayne to help rebuild, which is something the Batman can’t do. I could also see him buying the orphanage, renovating it back into Wayne Manor, and putting it to use in some way, like a drug treatment facilty.
Also, I liked that he was not (or at least not yet) an ultra-competent version of the Batman. I laughed when he was nervous about the height just before he deployed the wingsuit and again when he snagged the braking chute and crashed.

Wow, I was disappointed. Some things do work and this movie is not complete trash, but this movie contains some very long boring sections and it is painfully clear to me that this movie need at least 20 minutes cut out of it. We did NOT need Catwoman or Falcone in this movie. The Riddler storyline was enough.

Yeah, so not totally bad. I do see what they were going for and a lot of great stuff made it in. Paul Dano is directed so badly, he ends up being way over the top and not in a good way. Robert Pattinson, a good actor, was clearly directed to just stare and be silent most of the time.

It was OK. I will not re-watch it. I might check out a sequel if the reviews are through the roof or if I just hear it is much better than this one.

Yeah, kind of shocked. I thought it would be great. Nope.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned that caught my attention is related to this:

In the scene where the Batman is interviewing the Riddler in Arkham, the sound changes based on who’s perspective you’re seeing. When we’re looking at Riddler his voice is coming through a speaker/speech hole. When we’re looking at the Batman, HIS voice is coming through a speaker/speech hole and Riddler’s sounds normal. This change often occurs mid-sentence for each character. It was a nice touch.

Overall, it was a 7/10 for me. The actors were amazing (esp. Kravitz and Farrell, but everyone was serviceable).

The one comment I’ll make is that DC movies are just too dark - both visually and emotionally. Yes, Marvel can make their movies too “funny” (after all, people are dying), but if I want unrelentingly dark, I’ll watch CNN. Compare the grosses and it seems like much of the movie-watching world agrees.

I will watch the spin-off series and see if Reeves can become the Kevin Feige (or at least the Jon Favreau) for DC - something they’ve sorely needed IMHO. A great contrast would be to see him helm a Supes reboot.

So far, 11 DCEU movies have been released. I’d say the majority of them are not “dark”:

  • Man of Steel (2013) - dark
  • Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) - dark
  • Suicide Squad (2016) - arguably dark, but really just a huge mess
  • Wonder Woman (2017) - not dark
  • Justice League (2017) - dark
  • Aquaman (2018) - not dark
  • Shazam! (2019) - not dark
  • Birds of Prey (2020) - not dark
  • Wonder Woman 1984 (2020) - not dark
  • Zack Snyder’s Justice League (2021) - dark
  • The Suicide Squad (2021) - not dark

Throw in Joker and The Batman as dark, even though they aren’t officially DCEU, and counting Justice League twice, and still the not dark outnumbers the dark.

The bad DCEU movies (Man of Steel, Batman v. Superman, Suicide Squad, Justice League, Wonder Woman 1984) are arguably worse than any MCU movie.

But the good ones, in my opinion, are far better than any MCU movie (Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam!, Birds of Prey, The Suicide Squad, The Batman).

The MCU movies are so uniform in tone and style that they have become tiresome to me. I enjoyed Eternals because it felt different and less formulaic.

I tended to enjoy the MCU movies that were somewhat separate from the main Iron Man/Captain America/Avengers storyline: Ant Man, Ant Man and the Wasp, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, and Eternals. It didn’t help that I hated Thanos as a central character. Bored me to tears.

I was hoping to enjoy Black Window, but … it was not good, overall.

My feeling was that the detective work carried out by Batman amounted to solving the easy puzzles left by Riddler and moving on to the next puzzle when prompted. Not much investigative work really.

Seems like, in whatever iteration, Batman’s ability to intimidate bad guys is going to diminish when word get around that he has a no kill policy. In the first couple of comics stories, he carries a gun, but no movie Batman has, afaik.

That came up in (among other places) The Dark Knight (“No one’s gonna tell you nothin’. They’re wise to your act. You got rules. The Joker, he’s got no rules. No one’s gonna cross him to you.”).

“I’m not going to kill you… I’m just going to break all of your limbs,” is still a pretty effective threat.

Affleck, afaik.

Also, in the first Michael Keaton Batman movie, he’s got machineguns on the Batmobile that he uses to blow up the Joker’s chemical plants.

And the weaponry on his Batplane apparently kills everyone he’s aiming at except the Joker.

You’re in luck.

I’m in your debt, is what I am. :wink:

Thanks for the link!

I saw the movie a few days ago. From that, I would say that one takeaway was that I feel like I’m already starting to forget the movie a little bit. It was fairly well made but it didn’t have anything great enough in it to really linger.

In general, I was hoping that it would be a good detective story. As it was, while they showed Batman as being very quick at solving riddles, there really wasn’t all that much deduction and not all that much detective work either. Alfred did most of the code cracking, Selena figured out about half of everything, and there were no Sherlockian / surprise “putting together the pieces” to arrive at conclusion moments.

Probably the largest success of the movie was selling the concept of there being a costumed character running around - without him looking like a nerd (e.g. Kick-Ass) or like a comic book character (e.g. the Clooney Batman). Part of this was, I think, that Pattinson was never given a traditional Bruce Wayne “playboy” persona. They didn’t have him out there romancing the chicks or being all smooth. In general, he came across like a obsessive compulsive guy with improper emotional development. It sort of makes sense that he would form a nerdy fantasy like dressing up in a costume and then be so obsessive about doing it in an insanely efficient way. He’s less like James Bond and more like a dour Sheldon Cooper. If they do a sequel, I think they would do well to continue his development in that direction.

The other big win was, among the endings, they turned Batman away from being driven by vengeance and towards being, simply, a good human being who wants to make the world a better place. That worked and it worked very well. If the movie had ended there, my appreciation of it might have been a lot higher, in fact.

Instead, though, we continued on to the (almost) last scene at Arkham with the Riddler and Joker completely destroyed almost everything that they’d worked on through the whole movie to make it all realistic-ish with a bit so cheesey that it wouldn’t have been too out of place in the 60s TV show. It looked like they’d done up a clown version of the Crypt Keeper puppet and put it in a silhouette for a laugh-off competition. Major thumbs down.

Other complaints:

  • Catwoman simply looked too small and skinny to be an effective fighter. I could buy her as a gymnast and cat burglar but she looked like she’d break like a twig against everyone she fought with in the movie. Good looking lady, perfectly good acting, but when you’ve got Batman wearing a powered tank-suit, and she’s keeping up with him, that just ain’t hitting right.
  • Likewise, her apparent ability as a cat burglar came across as so competent that it made the whole plotline about her having a room mate and living in debt make no sense.
  • I would agree that they tried to put too much into the story. Like, sure, yeah they tied together the Riddler, Falcone, Catwoman, and the Wayne Family. It all - more or less - made sense. But from a storytelling standpoint it felt like there were two or three stories that had been developed independently and woven together like the A Plot/B Plot structure of a serial TV show. In a serial, you’ve got the A plot of dealing with the big bad and the B plot that develops on a character. You’ve got something for the plot-driven viewer and something for the character-driven viewer. Here, though, It’s two A plots getting in the way of one another and they didn’t quite finish the B plot on the Wayne Family in any notable way. It all felt a bit muddled, with no central strand to hang on to and enjoy its conclusion.
  • And that said, I have to hedge on the plot making sense because the Riddler’s agenda against Bruce Wayne was internally contradictory. They tried to steal the idea that he’s a Se7en-style crazy serial killer, from his note books and puzzles, but at every stage he seems to be tightly organized, well researched, and methodically executing a political grievance. On that, they were strong. But from there, we’re supposed to buy that his obsession with Bruce Wayne is at an even higher level - given how he starts chanting the name “Bruce Wayne” the once. But his attempt to kill the guy was a quick mail bomb and he didn’t even check whether it succeeded? As said, it felt like the glue that they used to connect the storylines simply wasn’t strong enough in this section.
  • The music was hella, I say hella bombastic. 3 hours of a tuba fart dirge is really just not a good feel.
  • The director really liked fully automatic pistols. This made it very difficult, after a bit, to buy the idea that Batman would magically never get hit in the head. Maybe if his coif didn’t fold like a thin sheet of latex, I might buy that he just got lucky. But knowing that there’s almost no mass protecting his entire head - that man’s a dead duck after all the ammunition pumped his direction.

But, all those negative points aside, I did enjoy it. Despite the quantity of flaws the overall whole is a net positive.

If you like Batman, it is probably one of the better entries.