# The Beacons of Minas Tirith **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 13, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950 "2009-09-13T20:51:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Musky\_Moon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90db22/32.png) [@Musky\_Moon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musky_Moon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/1 "2009-09-13T20:51:54Z")
I’m watching The Return of the King right now and they just lit the beacons. I can’t help but wonder who the hell was lighting them? The first couple I can see there being outposts, with a permanent watch, but the ones in the middle? There are stacks sitting on tops of barren rocky mountains with no dwellings around them. Is this addressed in the books? It’s silly, I know, but it’s strange that an author with such attention to detail would leave out something like this. ---
**Author:** ![Blut\_Aus\_Nord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Blut\_Aus\_Nord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blut_Aus_Nord)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/2 "2009-09-13T20:53:25Z")
I’m watching it now too. Makes you wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/3 "2009-09-13T21:22:03Z")
Not only that but I was wondering how accurate the scale is distance wise. Doesn’t look like a 24 hour jaunt by horseback. Looks like it would take weeks or months to get there with lots of prep. Not the “hey, they need us, let’s go!” ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/4 "2009-09-13T21:25:21Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Not only that but I was wondering how accurate the scale is distance wise. > Doesn’t look like a 24 hour jaunt by horseback. Looks like it would take weeks or months to get there with lots of prep. Not the “hey, they need us, let’s go!” Heh, I’ve remarked on this before - it looks like those beacons cover hundreds of miles. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/5 "2009-09-13T21:30:28Z")
My guess? They’re all manned stations. I mean, how else would you do it? Sure, a lot of them are unpleasantly remote, and cold as hell - but hey, no one ever said government service was glamorous work. They probably resupply the stations every few months or so. The society is supposed to be roughly Medieval, right? Well, they certainly knew how to send ships out for weeks at a time back then. Same idea. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/6 "2009-09-13T21:59:59Z")
It’s been pointed out (not just here) that the scale of Middle Earth in the films often appears much smaller than it does in the novels. In the books, the distance between Rohan and Gondor is indeed several hundred miles or so (found a [huge map](http://home.tele2.de/JensSchoenitz/THIRDAGE%20MIDDLE-EARTH%20map%20v2.jpg) which confirms). ---
**Author:** ![Musky\_Moon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90db22/32.png) [@Musky\_Moon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musky_Moon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/7 "2009-09-13T22:27:35Z")
Another thing. It’s filmed in New Zealand, but I don’t think I saw a single Maori actor. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/8 "2009-09-13T22:36:43Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > My guess? They’re all manned stations. I mean, how else would you do it? Sure, a lot of them are unpleasantly remote, and cold as hell - but hey, no one ever said government service was glamorous work. They probably resupply the stations every few months or so. The society is supposed to be roughly Medieval, right? Well, they certainly knew how to send ships out for weeks at a time back then. Same idea. This was what I always assumed as well; you got Beacon Duty, you set out hiking until you got to the beacon, and stayed there until you got relieved. I’d assume they’d send up food & water every couple weeks as well. The mountains looked high, but high mountains can be climbed. Look at all the 14ers in Colorado; most have trails up to them. It seems reasonable to think that they could find a scalable mountain in reasonable distances even in Middle-Earth. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/9 "2009-09-13T22:44:37Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > It’s been pointed out (not just here) that the scale of Middle Earth in the films often appears much smaller than it does in the novels. In the books, the distance between Rohan and Gondor is indeed several hundred miles or so (found a [huge map](http://home.tele2.de/JensSchoenitz/THIRDAGE%20MIDDLE-EARTH%20map%20v2.jpg) which confirms). Using that map, I make it 350 miles as the Eagle flies from Edoras to Minas Tirith. Room for plenty of Beacons. I can’t seem to find my copy of _The Atlas of Middle Earth_ but that sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/10 "2009-09-13T23:13:52Z")
Wasn’t there a beacon line from Troy to Mycenae in Greek myth? Anybody figure out how far by way of land it would have been between those two cities? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/11 "2009-09-13T23:20:55Z")
I know the Romans did something similar in a few places. Setting up a line of watchtowers at the edge of sight and sending messages by signal beacon through them to the larger outposts. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/12 "2009-09-14T00:23:20Z")
The thing which grated on me the most was that the final beacon was visible from the front steps of Edoras, whereas in reality (i.e., the book) the call for help was carried from the border by horse relay. I couldn’t help thinking that in the film version, either the beacons in Rohan were manned by Rohirrim, or they were extraterritorial enclaves akin to embassies which were manned by Gondorians. I find the latter speculation only slightly less improbable than the first. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/13 "2009-09-14T00:29:48Z")
> [@Musky\_Moon](#): > > I’m watching The Return of the King right now and they just lit the beacons. I can’t help but wonder who the hell was lighting them? The first couple I can see there being outposts, with a permanent watch, but the ones in the middle? There are stacks sitting on tops of barren rocky mountains with no dwellings around them. Is this addressed in the books? It’s silly, I know, but it’s strange that an author with such attention to detail would leave out something like this. Umm, how is Tolkien responsible for Peter Jackson’s interpretation of his work? My impression from the books is that the beacon hills were nowhere near as high or snowy as the massive peaks from the film. Peter Jackson saw these huge, rugged New Zealand mountains and thought they would look cool on film (which they did, admittedly). That doesn’t mean that they are how Tolkien envisioned them. I mean, isn’t Middle Earth based on Welsh geography? I believe there actually are hills named Beacon Hills in Wales and I assure you they look nothing like New Zealand mountain ranges. Back to the movie, I thought the fireballs of flame were one of the more terrible CGI effects in the film. With a budget of hundreds of millions, that was the best they could do? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/14 "2009-09-14T00:37:28Z")
If I recall from the book, they were indeed manned stations. In fact, I believe Gandalf and Pippin stop at one of them on the way from Helm’s Deep to Minas Tirith (on their breakneck ride on Shadowfax) to confer with the attendants. This is where Tolkien takes the opportunity to explain their function. The movie might have shown a few more beacons than the book mentions, but I’m not sure of that either. In the movie, I thought the music and the aerial photography for the beacon-lighting scene were completely awesome…TRM ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/15 "2009-09-14T00:43:11Z")
> [@Musky\_Moon](#): > > Another thing. It’s filmed in New Zealand, but I don’t think I saw a single Maori actor. 'Course you did. [Lawrence Makoare](http://www.arandor.com/rivendell/images/lotrevents/ringcon04/lawrencejedandme.jpg) (left) for instance played Lurtz, and Gothmog, and the Witch King. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/16 "2009-09-14T00:45:04Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > This was what I always assumed as well; you got Beacon Duty, you set out hiking until you got to the beacon You’re missing the step before: You messed with the Captain’s daughter, you got beacon duty… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/17 "2009-09-14T00:46:27Z")
There were plenty of Maori actors–most of the Uruki (sp?) and orcs were stunt men and Maori, IMS. Tolkien wanted to invent a mythos for Anglo-Saxons and Celts much like the Nordic peoples had. There were no “non-white” people in his tales, given the population he was writing for. Why should it have been made PC? 😕 I have always loved the beacon scene for its majesty. I prefer to the book, but YMMV. I do agree that the New Zealand mountainscape is a whole lot younger, geologically speaking, than the old Welsh hills that Tolkien may have had in mind. ME is very, very old and the mountains should have been more like the Appalachians or Welsh mountains, but the scene is still damned impressive. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/18 "2009-09-14T00:55:05Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Umm, how is Tolkien responsible for Peter Jackson’s interpretation of his work? > > My impression from the books is that the beacon hills were nowhere near as high or snowy as the massive peaks from the film. Peter Jackson saw these huge, rugged New Zealand mountains and thought they would look cool on film (which they did, admittedly). That doesn’t mean that they are how Tolkien envisioned them. I mean, isn’t Middle Earth based on Welsh geography? I believe there actually are hills named Beacon Hills in Wales and I assure you they look nothing like New Zealand mountain ranges. I always wondered if Tolkien was inspired by the beacons used to alert the British on the arrival of the Armada Invencible: > **[The Spanish Armada](https://www.britainexpress.com/History/tudor/armada.htm)** > > The story of the Spanish Armada, King Philip of Spain's attempt to invade England and overthrow Queen Elizabeth I. Part of the Britain Express guide to English history > [@](#): > > The English were not idle while the Spanish Armada prepared to sail. A series of signal beacons atop hills along the English and Welsh coasts were manned. When the Spanish ships were at last sighted of The Lizard on July 19, 1588, the beacons were lit, speeding the news throughout the realm. The English ships slipped out of their harbour at Plymouth and, under cover of darkness, managed to get behind the Spanish fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/19 "2009-09-14T01:25:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I couldn’t help thinking that in the film version, either the beacons in Rohan were manned by Rohirrim, or they were extraterritorial enclaves akin to embassies which were manned by Gondorians. I find the latter speculation only slightly less improbable than the first. Well, remember, the Beacons only had any purpose because Gondor and Rohan were military allies to begin with. The US maintains bases in the territory of our allies; I don’t find it at all improbable that Gondor would do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950/20 "2009-09-14T02:04:29Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > There were no “non-white” people in his tales, given the population he was writing for. Why should it have been made PC? 😕 Well, except for a lot of the “bad guys” who flock to Sauron’s banner: the Haradrim, etc aren’t very Anglo. 'Course, in the movie these were almost certainly all played by the aforementioned (often) Polynesian and Maori stuntmen. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beacons-of-minas-tirith/509950.md?page=2)