# "The beating COULD be racially motivated." - I'm over the double-race standard in America.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 15, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187 "2009-09-15T16:39:35Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/61 "2009-09-15T22:25:05Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#):
>
> So how far out does this feeling extend? Because I grew up in St. Louis and never “felt” Belleville, Granite City, East St. Louis, Alton, nor Columbia since they were 30 minutes away and on the other side of the big fuckin river.
Well if you were to live in St. Louis proper, East St Louis would be a fuck of a lot closer than St. Charles and Chesterfield and Fenton and shit but everyone wants to lump them into the greater STL area if they are being general. I live in hella north county but I think of Belleville as local - it’s name I regularly hear on my local news. I don’t regularly hear names of other suburbs from KC or Chicago or Columbia area even, but I hear the Metro East ones all the time. My city covers their news because it’s local enough for people to give a shit.
The river’s not that big. And anyway TONS of people live and work on separate sides of the river in all of the towns you mentioned - that’s why we have a bunch of bridges and ferries and whatnot. And why we cover the news over there. Not everyone stays in their little community all the time and works there and does all their fun stuff there.
If you look at a map there really isnt shit east of O’Fallon, IL. Or west of Wentzville. South of Arnold or Festus if you wanna go more south. North of Florissant in MO then in IL Grafton. This is the greater STL news area, roughly. It’s all contained in one big circle outside of which there is hardly anything in comparison, size/population wise.
So basically google map STL then zoom out a bit. See the big mess of yellowness in that circle? That’s it.
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### Author:  [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/62 "2009-09-15T23:17:38Z")
We can’t hear what the kids are saying - that’s the only way of telling if there’s a racial aspect. Looks like a simple failure to “bags” to me. I can lip read the kid at the front saying what looks like “what happened?” and “why?” In my schooldays you had to say “Bags I” to get your seat and you were perfectly within your rights to thump anyone attempting to sit in a previously bagsed seat. Good job there were no cameras in those days.
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### Author:  [@Mannish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mannish)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/63 "2009-09-16T00:09:37Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#):
>
> Why does it really matter if it’s racially motivated? If this were two black kids or two white kids, no one would care, but somehow you get two people of different races and it’s either a big mess because it is racially motivated or because people are upset that the racial aspect isn’t there. You know what, I saw fights like that more than a couple times when I was in school, and no one cared, probably because it was two white kids beating eachother up.
>
> Race is a really stupid thing to get in a fight over, but kids get in fights over stupid things all the time. And this is exactly the sort of stupidity that just makes that stuff worse because somehow starting a fight because someone made a racial slur is worse than because someone called the other’s mom a whore. How about we get at the heart of the issue and deal with the actual problem, which is the violence.
>
> So really, this isn’t national news, even if it IS racially motivated. It’s just two kids fighting. Suspend the kid that threw all the punches, and possibly the one that took them if he did anything to instigate (I can’t tell from the edited video). While you’re at it, discipline the bus driver for not doing something. Even if he couldn’t do something to break up the fight (ie, no safe place to stop), he could have at least pulled over when he could and made the kids sit apart that might have prevented the second attack five minutes later from happening.
_nominates Blaster Master for Poster of the Day_
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### Author:  [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/64 "2009-09-16T00:32:42Z")
I feel sorry for the kid who got beaten. WTF is wrong with people? I never saw such things growing up–the “fights” were mostly shoving matches or a rare bloody nose, not smack downs. (exception was a girl fight in junior high–I watched a girl rip a pierced hoop out of the other girl’s ear–nasty).
Black, white, now black and blue–I hope to hell the beater got severely punished (and how about some anger management classes? Where did he learn to pulverize a kid like that?) and I hope the victim gets some help as well (how about some social skills–if that is what is needed? I dunno if he provoked, but no matter the taunt, no one deserves what he got).
And the bus driver is a jerk. The bus drivers I knew as a kid maintained discipline.
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### Author:  [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/65 "2009-09-16T02:34:02Z")
Are you sure that’s not an old film of a teenage Howard Stern getting beat up by black kids on that bus? 😃
But seriously ladies and germs, I think the bigger issue here is school bullying. This is not just a “school fight”. It’s not even the kid in a fit of anger punching the nerd because he moved his books. It went way over the line, and I am hoping the assailants have full criminal charges pressed upon them, I am for zero tolerance of school bullying.
Second, as for the OP, correct me if I am wrong, but towards the end of the video it looks like one of the black kids is trying to stop the other black kid from beating the nerd even further.
Based on some of the somewhat violent comments I hear some white trash rednecks in my neck of the woods make about President Obama, and the names I see in the murder reports in my town every week, I’d say there is a more of a white-on-black hate crime issue, black-on-black violent crime issue, and Latino-on-Latino violent crime issue in our country than a black-on-white hate crime issue. As a matter of fact, I would propose that this video is simply an example of a school bully-on-school nerd violent crime.
As for the bus driver, unless it’s a safety issue, my New Rule is the bus gets pulled over, immediately, and if the bus driver cannot stop the assault, she is to call 911 and have the police investigate immediately. I’m sure if these little bastards knew the police were gonna board the bus whenever there is a fight, it would end this nonsense right quick.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/66 "2009-09-16T02:43:52Z")
> [@St.Anger](#):
>
> Second, as for the OP, correct me if I am wrong, but towards the end of the video it looks like one of the black kids is trying to stop the other black kid from beating the nerd even further.
I thought so too but then the kid who looked like he was trying to break it up takes a swing at the kid himself.
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### Author:  [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/67 "2009-09-16T02:48:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> I thought so too but then the kid who looked like he was trying to break it up takes a swing at the kid himself.
. . . . um . .er . . . . . . well, if you can’t beat 'em, join them! 😃
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/68 "2009-09-16T02:59:04Z")
Or… if you can’t beat them, beat _them_.
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### Author:  [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/69 "2009-09-16T06:20:19Z")
Can I just cut through it here? people hate other people and call them niggers, jews, faggots, Etc, etc, etc… Its not right but it ain’t gonna change. Boo fuckin hoo.
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### Author:  [@St.Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Anger)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/70 "2009-09-16T06:25:53Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#):
>
> Can I just cut through it here? people hate other people and call them niggers, jews, faggots, Etc, etc, etc… Its not right but it ain’t gonna change. Boo fuckin hoo.
Speak for yourself. I dont use those words, or the word “jew” in a racially offensive way.
So I guess we should all just sit back and not anything or speak out against it then, right?
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### Author:  [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/71 "2009-09-16T06:42:56Z")
> [@St.Anger](#):
>
> Speak for yourself. I dont use those words, or the word “jew” in a racially offensive way.
>
> So I guess we should all just sit back and not anything or speak out against it then, right?
This is very offensive stuff. I do not advocate it. I am trying to say that in the big picture of humanity it has been and will be with us for a long time. human nature is a beast that has not been and I believe will not be tamed by society.
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### Author:  [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/72 "2009-09-16T07:15:33Z")
I guess I’m trying to say that you cannot police peoples minds and if you did you would regret it.
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### Author:  [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/73 "2009-09-16T08:07:16Z")
Of course this wasn.t a racist attack.
Only white people are racists,everyone knows that.
Of course,while I seriously disapprove of this assault lets be honest its just a normal part of growing up.
I saw much worse when I was younger,stabbings and so on.
And who could blame these children if it was racially motivated after all of the evil things Whitey has done to Black people historically?
(And lets face it they’re only kids going to school.)
And I expect that the perpetrators of these youthful high spirits feel really bad about this,worse probably then the white kid who participated in the incident.
(And lets not forget that he too is partially responsible for what happened bearing in mind that his white ancestors no doubt were slave owners)
Bearing in mind how bad these young people must feel about this piece of horseplay that got out of hand I really think that they’ve been punished enough and be allowed to get on with their lives.
Kids of this age like to act all tough but inside they’re still only childen frightened of the world and what is happening to their bodies plus of course fear of the future so to keep laying guilt on them like this is to likely traumatise them in the very near future.
And could you live with yourself then?
These kids are as much victims as the white kid,victims of society,victims of poverty,victims of history and of course victims of racism.
The very fact that some people for motives of their own can even suggest that this might be an act of racism is racist in itself.
I think that the white kid who should have known better should shake hands with those other kids,who after all are his schoolfriends and maybe offer them a bit of an apology for putting them all under this emotional stress.
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### Author:  [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/74 "2009-09-16T08:14:32Z")
I went through school K-12 in Detroit, smartass. As a whiteboy it wasn’t easy.
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### Author:  [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/75 "2009-09-16T09:21:24Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#):
>
> Of course this wasn.t a racist attack.
> Only white people are racists,everyone knows that.
> Of course,while I seriously disapprove of this assault lets be honest its just a normal part of growing up.
>
> I saw much worse when I was younger,stabbings and so on.
>
> And who could blame these children if it was racially motivated after all of the evil things Whitey has done to Black people historically?
> (And lets face it they’re only kids going to school.)
>
> And I expect that the perpetrators of these youthful high spirits feel really bad about this,worse probably then the white kid who participated in the incident.
> (And lets not forget that he too is partially responsible for what happened bearing in mind that his white ancestors no doubt were slave owners)
>
> Bearing in mind how bad these young people must feel about this piece of horseplay that got out of hand I really think that they’ve been punished enough and be allowed to get on with their lives.
>
> Kids of this age like to act all tough but inside they’re still only childen frightened of the world and what is happening to their bodies plus of course fear of the future so to keep laying guilt on them like this is to likely traumatise them in the very near future.
> And could you live with yourself then?
>
> These kids are as much victims as the white kid,victims of society,victims of poverty,victims of history and of course victims of racism.
>
> The very fact that some people for motives of their own can even suggest that this might be an act of racism is racist in itself.
>
> I think that the white kid who should have known better should shake hands with those other kids,who after all are his schoolfriends and maybe offer them a bit of an apology for putting them all under this emotional stress.
I’ve read your post many times and still have nothing other to say than - Fuck you,you half english frog fucker. Must have been nice to grow up under your mums skirt.
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/76 "2009-09-16T12:38:07Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#):
>
> Fuck you.
Reminder:
[QUOTE=Restricted language in the Pit]
* * *
The following expressions should not be directed at other posters.
* * *
fuck you
[/QUOTE]
No warning issued.
**Gfactor**
Pit Moderator
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/77 "2009-09-16T13:50:49Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#):
>
> I’ve read your post many times and still have nothing other to say than - Fuck you,you half english frog fucker. Must have been nice to grow up under your mums skirt.
That post was meant to be a sarcastic parody of how **Lust4Life** imagines liberals think and talk. It was lame, and it utterly failed as satire because it did not describe reality, but it wasn’t intended to be serious. You have been what we call “whooshed.”
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### Author:  [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/78 "2009-09-16T14:23:12Z")
> [@myskepticsight](#):
>
> [snip] I live in hella north county …
>
> If you look at a map there really isnt shit east of O’Fallon, IL. Or west of Wentzville. South of Arnold or Festus if you wanna go more south.
I’m showing my age here as I left St. Louis over 30 years ago but back then I lived in the South County area so Belleville was pretty much on the other side of East Jesus to us. The “Metro Area” was basically St. Louis and St. Louis County (two separate counties for those who don’t know the makeup). Illinois was on the other side of the big fukin river and was a known supplier of bad drivers for the St. Louis area. Everything else was just smaller cities close to St. Louis.
So when it was implied that this act of stupidity and bullying was a St. Louis thing I was just a little bit offended but more so plain old bewildered that someone could confuse “East Jesus” with St. Louis.
I guess now with better highways, broadcast ranges and commuting that makes for an expanded “Metro” area.
God help you if you want to consider Festus as in your area. It will drag your petty crime rate up and your average IQ down.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/79 "2009-09-16T14:28:24Z")
From [the Bureau of Justice Statistics (pdf)](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus0602.pdf), in 2006, there were 3,699,360 incidents of crimes of violence in the US in which the victim was a white person, of which 13% were committed by a black person, or about 480,916.8 such incidents. There were 719,880 incidents of crimes of violence in which the victim was African American, of which 11.5% were committed by a white person, or an estimated 82,786.2 such incidents.
According to the [Us Census Bureau (Excel spreadsheet)](http://www.census.gov/popest/national/asrh/NC-EST2006/NC-EST2006-03.xls), in 2006, there were 239,746,254 white people and 38,342,549 black people in the US in 2006.
That means that the odds of a white person being violently victimized by a black person in 2006 were about 0.00201, and the odds of a black person being violently victimized by a white person were about 0.002164, and the odds ratio was about 0.929.
It is pretty close to even odds, but what this suggests is that a white person is about 7% _less_ likely to be victimized by a black person than a black person is to be victimized by a white person.
You probably won’t see that at the stormfront website.
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### Author:  [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beating-could-be-racially-motivated-im-over-the-double-race-standard-in-america/510187/80 "2009-09-16T14:43:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> What makes you think anybody wants to see racist attacks?
_Nobody_ wants to see racist attacks? Are you saying you believe President Obama **isn’t** the intellectual heir to Charles Manson? Do you have any evidence he’s not?
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