# The Beatles, the Hamburg years **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [May 14, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040 "2023-05-14T20:23:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/1 "2023-05-14T20:23:35Z")
I started this thread for a specific question, but any Beatles/Hamburg stuff is welcome, of course. When they were in Hamburg they played long sets, and they made it a group policy to not repeat songs, and they ended up with a sizeable repertoire. They were playing all kinds of stuff unlike the rather simplistic R&R stuff they started with, like show tunes. I’ve never read any account of them sussing out the chords and an arrangement. I don’t think they had the big Fake Books back then. To a musical theorist it would probably be obvious, but these were guys who not much earlier rode across town so someone could show them how to form a B7 chord 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/2 "2023-05-14T20:29:03Z")
And your question is…? ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/3 "2023-05-14T20:32:47Z")
If anybody ever read anything about their process. I thought it was fairly clear. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/4 "2023-05-14T20:34:23Z")
I suspect the process was as simple as gathering together around a record player and replicating what they heard, helping each other out with the correct notes and chords. And not just with fellow Beatles. A lot of other English bands were lodged in the same digs sharing records and tips. I once read that by 1962 the Beatles had potentially logged more stage time than any other Rock and Roll band in the world then playing. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/5 "2023-05-14T20:39:18Z")
Malcolm Gladwell in… _The Tipping Point(?)_ used them as an example of the 10,000 hours\* postulate. Which was that if you want to excel at something, spending a huge chunk of time at it is handy/a huge boost/almost required (not sure which, it’s been a long time since I read it). It certainly paid off for the Lads From Liverpool. And I’d say it was more than playing ability, it was songwriting, reading an audience, and getting along with each other, personally and professionally (which a lot of the bands that didn’t survive failed at). . \*eta: At one point, I was wondering which field to focus on, and I thought “Well, what have I spent 10k hours on?” About the only thing was doodling. So I made a career of it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/6 "2023-05-14T20:46:04Z")
Here is their set list for December 25th, 1962 at the Star Club in Hamburg: [The Beatles Concert Setlist at Star-Club, Hamburg on December 25, 1962 | setlist.fm](https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/the-beatles/1962/star-club-hamburg-germany-3bdae050.html) Twenty one songs, most of them covers. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/7 "2023-05-14T20:57:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Twenty one songs, most of the m covers. The next night they did most of the n covers, and followed that by most of the o covers. At the end of twenty-six nights they had to go home to Liverpool, having run out of material. Sorry. Couldn’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/8 "2023-05-14T20:57:58Z")
This is a Reverb article talking about their first three tours, from the disastrous 1960 tour with the Fab Five (John, Paul, George, Stu and Pete) to the eventful third tour with their new manager Brian Epstein. When they arrived they got the news that Stu had died of a brain hemorrhage just two days before they arrived. [What The Beatles Played in Hamburg | Reverb News](https://reverb.com/news/what-the-beatles-played-in-hamburg) ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/9 "2023-05-14T21:40:39Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > it was fairly clear. Not to me. I read Mark Lewisohn’s first volume, which covers the Hamburg years, and he went into some detail on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/10 "2023-05-14T22:26:24Z")
Songs, and their chords, were passed from musician to musician I guess. You could also figure out the chords by ear, especially pop-rock songs that tended to be quite simple. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/11 "2023-05-14T23:22:48Z")
Quite soon the things that the Beatles did were so sophisticated that other would-be musicians would spend hours listening to the songs trying to figure out how the hell they got that sound. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/12 "2023-05-15T00:01:56Z")
As idolized, and imitated that the Beatles were, it’s curious why more bassists didn’t play Hofners. I know Ringo was Ludwig’s best salesman, and John didn’t hurt Ric sales. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/13 "2023-05-15T00:53:13Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > As idolized, and imitated that the Beatles were, it’s curious why more bassists didn’t play Hofners. the Beatles hit the scene with all hollow guitars right at the time most Rock guitarists and bass players were switching to solid bodies. Wannabes would opt for the Beatle gear, but serious musicians didn’t want a violin shaped bass, a C&W lead guitar or a tiny short-necked 325. The Beatles were comfortable with those instruments and kept them as part of their signature, but by 1964 they were already quite dated. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/14 "2023-05-15T06:58:42Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I’ve never read any account of them sussing out the chords and an arrangement. > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I suspect the process was as simple as gathering together around a record player and replicating what they heard, helping each other out with the correct notes and chords. This. My guess is that Paul contributed the most there. As his father was a professional “jazz” musican, he must have been exposed from an early age to somewhat unusual chords. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/15 "2023-05-15T13:47:14Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > They were playing all kinds of stuff unlike the rather simplistic R&R stuff they started with, like show tunes. I bet the show tunes were McCartney’s influence. I read somewhere that he loved old-timey dance hall numbers from the 30s, and they were a big influence on him (think “Martha My Dear”), to John’s constant irritation, who hated that style of music. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/16 "2023-05-15T13:50:28Z")
John called it his “granny music”. I doubt John would have been the one to suggest “'Til there was You” ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-the-hamburg-years/984040/17 "2023-05-15T14:54:05Z")
My brother, whose a good guitarist and singer can teach himself most anything with the music in front of him. He’s not great, just good. His son, whose been watching him since birth can pick out the song by just paying attention to his Dad play. He’s not great, only ok-ish. A ‘great’ musician can probably do this at their leisure. WAG