# The Beatles were overrated **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 7, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022 "2017-08-07T18:19:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/81 "2017-08-08T15:49:00Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > He chose a band with young jazz musicians with real chops. Are you saying Copeland and Summers didn’t have “real” chops?!?! Copeland is rightfully a drum god, and Summers was no slouch, either. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/82 "2017-08-08T16:09:14Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Wait, what? Stings first two solo albums were miles better thsn anything The Police did. He didn’t want to be pigeonholed into a single genre. You might want to start a separate thread for this topic. This thread was the OP’s toss off of a statement which was not intended for discussion. But saying Sting’s stuff was better than the Police, and a move to a new genre (vs a return to his first love, smooth jazz) and meaning it?! That’s discussion-worthy. Sting is a brilliant songwriter, a unique voice, and a capable frontman. He is far more musically talented than I am and I am happy for his success. Having said that, he’s an insufferable douchebag who overpacks his lyrics with needless fanciness, and who really, really benefitted from having Copeland’s blueprint for the Police, including the name and approach, which kept Mr Sumner focused on tight pop songs with reggae and other worldbeat influences and away from smooth jazz. But again - better for another thread. ETA: **puly** , as I have discussed on this board a few times, Summers alongside The Edge and Mark Knopfler and a couple of others created the template for a then-innovative guitar sound which is now an essential approach a guitarist should have in their vocabulary. He’s great. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/83 "2017-08-08T16:14:13Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > ETA: **puly** , as I have discussed on this board a few times, Summers alongside The Edge and Mark Knopfler and a couple of others created the template for a then-innovative guitar sound which is now an essential approach a guitarist should have in their vocabulary. He’s great. I knew he was pretty well regarded, but guitarists aren’t in my wheelhouse, so I’m glad you piped in. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/84 "2017-08-08T16:21:05Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I knew he was pretty well regarded, but guitarists aren’t in my wheelhouse, so I’m glad you piped in. 🙂 One thing I can say, though, is that his solo in “Driven to Tears” is one of my favorite guitar solos. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/85 "2017-08-08T16:21:13Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I knew he was pretty well regarded, but guitarists aren’t in my wheelhouse, so I’m glad you piped in. 🙂 Oh yeah - that thin, heavily chorused sound, maybe a bit of delay? It took a lot of effects, sequenced just so. This guy named Bob Bradshaw started taking stomp box pedals and rack mounting then and hooking the into complex switching devices. He was creating a POD digital multieffects pedal before the digital part existed. Anyway, his earliest adherents included Eddie Van Halen, Steve Lukather (Toto, all the guitars on Thriller except Eddie’s Beat It lead - super influential studio player to this day) and Andy Summers. It changed the game back then in terms of stacking effects to build complex sounds you could switch to. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/86 "2017-08-08T16:21:49Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Are you saying Copeland and Summers didn’t have “real” chops?!?! Copeland is rightfully a drum god, and Summers was no slouch, either. Compared to Omar Hakim? Branford Marsalis? Etc. Copeland and Summers are excellent musicians…but they aren’t at that level. Check out the live version of Burn for You from the live Bring on the Night sessions and tell me that band doesn’t rock as hard as any other band around. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/87 "2017-08-08T16:26:21Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Wait, what? Stings first two solo albums were miles better thsn anything The Police did. He didn’t want to be pigeonholed into a single genre. > **[You Know, I Used To Be Kind Of Cool Once](https://www.theonion.com/you-know-i-used-to-be-kind-of-cool-once-1819583601)** > > You know how, every so often, something you haven’t thought about in the longest time will just sort of pop up out of nowhere, and all of a sudden you’re like, “Hey… Wait a minute”? Well, that happened to me last week, when it occurred to me that I... ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/88 "2017-08-08T16:32:00Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Compared to Omar Hakim? Yes. They’re in the same league, as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/89 "2017-08-08T16:41:50Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Compared to Omar Hakim? Branford Marsalis? Etc. Copeland and Summers are excellent musicians…but they aren’t at that level. Check out the live version of Burn for You from the live Bring on the Night sessions and tell me that band doesn’t rock as hard as any other band around. Of course they are. Do you play? To be clear: Omar and Branford and Kenny Kirkland on keys, etc are all truly excellent in Sting’s band. But yes, Copeland and Summers are equally skilled. You should start a thread. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/90 "2017-08-08T16:59:24Z")
Don’t dismiss Lennon’s contributions to the Beatles, especially as a song writer. I would say in the end it came out 50-50. For example, in 1964/65 (Hard Day’s Night / Beatles For Sale / Help) John wrote two-thirds of the songs\* … including the two movie title songs as well as the other singles “I Feel Fine”, “Ticket To Ride” and “Day Tripper”. Paul had the singles “Can’t Buy Me Love” and “We Can Work It Out” Rubber Soul was a slight win for Lennon Revolver / Sgt. Pepper / Magical Mystery McCartney was stronger although Lennon psychedelic songs were ground breaking. White album I prefer Lennon songs. Let It Be - Paul for sure. Abbey Road a win for Paul because of the medley songs. - when I say wrote, I mean the composer had the initial draft and may have got some help with verses, bridge, arrangement ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/91 "2017-08-08T17:05:10Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Sinatra was reprehinsible? Sure he was. > > [When Frank Sinatra Took a Stand for Civil Rights in Schools | TIME](http://time.com/3857736/frank-sinatra-civil-rights/) I never said Sinatra was reprehensible. I didn’t even bring him up first. You want to take this up with **Tomndebb**. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/92 "2017-08-08T17:10:01Z")
For those of you willing and able to discuss the Sting/Police issue, I kindly invite you [over here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=832943). ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/93 "2017-08-08T17:24:33Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > The Beatles were innovators. They are not “overrated” in the traditional sense of the word. The fact that they innovated many concepts of rock can’t be denied. But putting them on a pedestal because of the fact that they were innovative is what is problematic. The Beatles did many amazing things, but later bands took what they did and did it better. This deserves to be highlighted. How ridiculous. We put artists on pedestals in exact proportion to and for the reason of their innovations. But the main thing about them above even innovation was that their songs were better than their imitators too. Actually the Beatles sonic innovations were always just the second narrative for human interest articles. It was the quality and popularity of their songs that was always the main story. Who is on a pedestal then? ---
**Author:** ![betonbill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b782af/32.png) [@betonbill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betonbill)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/94 "2017-08-08T17:38:30Z")
All I can say about the Beatles is the you just had to be there at the time… Driving home for college vacation and hearing one of the early songs and thinking “dang, they’ve got something there.” As far as The Doors goes, they were sure fun to dance to in a Missoula, Montana bar late at night. Thanks for the memories, gang. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/95 "2017-08-08T17:40:39Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > The Beatles are a living legend that will live long after other living legends have died. They were also bigger than Rod. Rod Stewart would not be big for another eight years, and certainly at that stage hadn’t had a hit. Anyway, they created a musical legend that will last a lunchtime. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/96 "2017-08-08T17:42:47Z")
> [@betonbill](#): > > All I can say about the Beatles is the you just had to be there at the time… Nah, plenty of folks came into them well beyond their heyday. I’m sure it was much more powerful (how couldn’t it be?) to be there while it happened, but they’re still inspiring musicians and listeners generations later. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/97 "2017-08-09T01:40:39Z")
The reason I’d say “you had to be there at the time” is to get a feel for how much CRAP there was on the radio when the Beatles showed up. If you were cruising around in the early '60s, your musical choices were a couple of AM radio stations. This was before cassettes or 8-tracks, and as the phrase “Top 40” implies, you heard the same 40 songs over and over. Take a look at that [Top 40 for the week before the Beatles debuted](https://weeklytop40.wordpress.com/1964-all-charts/) … we were inundated with “easy listening”: Bobby Rydell, Bobby Vinton, The Singing Nun for Og’s sake! And… Surfin’ Bird. Can you imagine hearing “Bird, bird, bird/the bird is the word…” every time you got in the car? [Here was the #1 hit in America for that week.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJBMp18TT9g)We were getting force-fed a lot of white bread… Can you imagine what it was like to change stations and suddenly hear… The Beatles? Even the lightweight "I Want To Hold Your Hand” and “Please Please Me” were a revelation for kids who were starved for rock and roll. Come to think of it, this was huge – I’m off to start a thread on how this music changed our lives… ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/98 "2017-08-09T10:32:01Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Okay, that was actually really good. Yeah…lots of musically knowledgeable people _think_ they don’t like Jerry or the Grateful Dead, and then they actually hear some. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/99 "2017-08-09T11:05:04Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Yeah…lots of musically knowledgeable people _think_ they don’t like Jerry or the Grateful Dead, and then they actually hear some. Music is a Good thing, so I avoid taking shots at anyone else’s choices. Also, too many folks love the Dead for me to claim to know better. But that does nothing for me. I don’t hear anything interesting to me musically. My mileage. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022/100 "2017-08-09T11:32:59Z")
Years ago when I worked at G. Schirmer Music Publishing, I knew a total avant-garde music nerd who disdained any art music composed pre-Pierre Boulez. Oddly enough, he ADORED the Dead. Not for the songwriting or vocals or Old-Weird-America aspects, but for the instrumental interplay during the long Space jams. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-beatles-were-overrated/793022.md?page=6)