# the benfits of high gas prices **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 16, 2004, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383 "2004-05-16T05:00:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![komrade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/838e76/32.png) [@komrade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komrade)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/1 "2004-05-16T05:00:01Z")
less cars on the road rush hour would be sane fewer traffic accidents/ fatalities cheaper car insurance lower polution levels fewer wasteful/unnescessary trips decrease in “road rage incidents” improved bus/transit systems police can spend more time finding axe murders the list is endless, please post if you have any more benfits/ideas ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/2 "2004-05-16T05:12:50Z")
Your list only make sense if gas prices were higher and essentially unaffordable. Most recent news items I’ve read suggest that the market can sustain current gas hikes with few changes in people’s driving habits. So no car pooling, no alternative transportation means explored _en masse/._ Just oil companies getting over. For your scenario to work, the current $2.00/gallon average would roughly have to double. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/3 "2004-05-16T05:35:53Z")
I can’t remember where I read/watched it, but apparently demand for gas in the US is **up** significantly from what it was this time last year. So, as **Askia** says, none of those benefits you mention will necessarially happen until increasing gas prices cause decrease in gas use. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/4 "2004-05-16T08:27:03Z")
It would be impossible for me to make a living without driving my car. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/5 "2004-05-16T09:41:02Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > It would be impossible for me to make a living without driving my car. Not true. Many successful pimps walk their rounds, rather than drive. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/6 "2004-05-16T09:49:01Z")
**komrade** , I think you would like Germany’s ecotax, perhaps just a little higher. [http://www.eco-tax.info/4fakten/EcoTaxFacts.html](http://www.eco-tax.info/4fakten/EcoTaxFacts.html) 1 gallon of gas costs about $5.40 at the moment, but most of it is due to other taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eada6e/32.png) [@Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_You_Big_Red_Fire_Engine)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/7 "2004-05-16T11:10:54Z")
I agree. I know eventually prices of gas will go up because so many people are using it and it’ll start to run out and the probem will fix itslef 🙂 That’s the problem with unsustainable resources. Of course, knowing humans, they’ll probably come up with something worse :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eada6e/32.png) [@Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_You_Big_Red_Fire_Engine)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/8 "2004-05-16T11:12:38Z")
Man, just one more reason for me to move to Germany. What other brilliant ideas does Germay have? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/9 "2004-05-16T13:26:25Z")
Won’t change my driving habits. I go where I need to when I need to. I guess If it gets to be 4-5 dollars a gallon I will look into cost/benifit of buying an additional, more fuel efficient vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/10 "2004-05-16T13:57:50Z")
**less cars on the road** less tanks in Iraq… ok, no, just a higher tax bill, no, strike that, deficit **rush hour would be sane** if you think more of a balance of cars, bikes, cycles, scooters, etc sharing the roads at rush hour is sane **fewer traffic accidents/ fatalities** see above **cheaper car insurance** more expensive in-town real estate, and practically every consumer good **lower polution levels** and less utility to go to the places to best appreciate it **fewer wasteful/unnescessary trips** longer hassle and inconvenience or expense for necessary trips **decrease in "road rage incidents"** increase in fuel thefts **improved bus/transit systems** and higher prices for mass transit, due to increased utility value and use **police can spend more time finding axe murders** and the tax savings can go to buying fresh fruit and veges in winter. At least if the gas prices were artificially high due to taxes, such funds could be diverted back to public services or reduced taxes from other sources. The reliance of the American economy on gas prices hardly equates to benefits for the masses. ---
**Author:** ![mike1dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@mike1dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mike1dog)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/11 "2004-05-16T14:04:59Z")
I tried to find a link for this and couldn’t, but a commentator on Marketplace mentioned that the high gasoline prices were possibly the result of speculators who used to trade electricity futures at Enron trying to earn a living. If that’s true, then the whole thing could come crashing down. ---
**Author:** ![the\_first\_supraliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@the\_first\_supraliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_first_supraliminal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/12 "2004-05-16T14:10:18Z")
This debate creates a trilemma (three-horned dilemma) for my ecologist/consumerist/liberal brain. On one side, as an ecologist, I hate to see the utter waste of SUV’s pouring gas into the gutter just so the single urban driver can show off his disposable income. But as a consumerist, I hate to see the oil companies rack up their current windfall profits on the basis of false claims of scarcity. And while European level gas taxes would put the brakes on those two items, my liberal leanings say that would just be a regressive tax, entitling the rich to get richer (off less income tax) and the poor poorer off simple needs (like getting to work). What to do? This is why we need some more politicians willing to debate issues instead of “who was a hero/ draft dodger decades ago.” ---
**Author:** ![biqu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@biqu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biqu)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/13 "2004-05-16T14:40:03Z")
> [@the first supraliminal](#): > > But as a consumerist, I hate to see the oil companies rack up their current windfall profits on the basis of false claims of scarcity. Oil companies seeking windfall profits might actually [have a point](http://www.heraldnet.com/Stories/04/4/18/18481369.cfm) with their claims of scarcity, even if that scarcity is artificially created by OPEC members trying to maintain their own profits. > [@](#): > > Prices have certainly jumped recently, and we have dusted off the usual suspects: OPEC, the lack of refinery capacity, commodity speculators, SUV drivers and, of course, the greedy oil companies (in cahoots with you know who, of course … this is an election year, after all). > > However, one of the fundamental causes is not on that list – basic economics. > > Every business attempts to maximize, or at least stabilize, its profits. And the OPEC countries have seen theirs drop precipitously. Suppose you had a product that sold for $1.15 two years ago and it now brings in only 83 cents, even though demand is still strong. You would probably be disappointed, to say the least, and you would start looking around for some way to bolster your bottom line. > > \ > > Facing an inelastic demand for its product and declining real income, OPEC decided to cut production so the price of crude oil would go up. Their goal was straightforward enough: They wanted their income per barrel to go back up to what it had been before the dollar started its downhill slide. > > What new price would bring their income per barrel back to where it had been? The decline in the dollar against the euro since 2002 works out to 39 percent. The average price per barrel of crude oil for the first quarter of 2004 is higher than the 2002 average by exactly the same amount – 39 percent. > > This tells us two things. First, OPEC isn’t the villain in this piece. Oil producers were simply trying to bring their profitability back into line after being walloped by the dollar’s devaluation. Second, because OPEC’s action was essentially defensive, it isn’t likely that we are going to see continued escalation of gasoline prices. Of course, the continued pressure on U.S. refinery and storage capacity gives the supply-demand picture for petroleum products a bias toward price increases and encourages commodity speculators. But that is our doing, not OPEC’s. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/14 "2004-05-16T16:02:49Z")
What, no mention of “increased/faster adoption of hybrid and alternate-fuel vehicles”? My parents had to buy a new car the other day, and instead of going for the full-sized Accord they were considering earlier, they went and got a Civic Hybrid. Had a real devil of a time trying to find one, too, and the only color remaining was white… ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/15 "2004-05-16T17:22:12Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > What, no mention of “increased/faster adoption of hybrid and alternate-fuel vehicles”? > > My parents had to buy a new car the other day, and instead of going for the full-sized Accord they were considering earlier, they went and got a Civic Hybrid. Had a real devil of a time trying to find one, too, and the only color remaining was white… It’s too bad they couldn’t have waited until the fall; Honda is supposed to come out with a hybrid Accord then. And actually, the Accord sedan isn’t so bad on gas mileage - I bought the Accord partially because of its mileage. Of course, I was coming from a 1996 Caravan, so anything looked good in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/16 "2004-05-16T20:48:12Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > My parents had to buy a new car the other day, and instead of going for the full-sized Accord they were considering earlier, they went and got a Civic Hybrid. Had a real devil of a time trying to find one, too, and the only color remaining was white… And, actually, the Civic Hybrid’s sales are weak compared to the Prius. Here in Rochester, I am still waiting for my 2004 Toyota Prius which I put down a deposit on at the dealership last November only a few days after the first one had arrived to test drive. (Ten or so people on the list ahead of me had put down deposits before the car was even available to test drive!) The dealer says that people who are signing up now are being told the wait will be a year or more! Of course, all this is partly a problem of low supply, i.e., they are just not making that many…Clearly demand has greatly exceeded their expectations. ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/17 "2004-05-17T06:39:34Z")
Speaking of Hybrids and exceeding expectations, Ford is releasing their Escape hybrid this August. Ford has announced that they are making 20,000 of them but that 30,000 people have already contacted Ford wanting to buy them - and this is before any type of advertising push. If the Escape does really well we might see more manufacturers selling SUV hybrids sooner rather than later. [http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-05-13-ford-hybrid-suv\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-05-13-ford-hybrid-suv_x.htm) ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/18 "2004-05-17T07:58:15Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Not true. Many successful pimps walk their rounds, rather than drive. **Moderator’s Note:** **Brutus** , don’t call other posters pimps in Great Debates. You’ve been around here long enough to know about personal insults outside of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/19 "2004-05-17T08:05:30Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > **Moderator’s Note:** **Brutus** , don’t call other posters pimps in Great Debates. You’ve been around here long enough to know about personal insults outside of the Pit. Insult? You are _so_ behind the times. But sure. ---
**Author:** ![komrade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/838e76/32.png) [@komrade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/komrade)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383/20 "2004-05-17T08:16:12Z")
benifits of high gas prices part 2 "Your list only make sense if gas prices were higher and essentially unaffordable. Most recent news items I’ve read suggest that the market can sustain current gas hikes with few changes in people’s driving habits. So no car pooling, no alternative transportation means explored en masse/. Just oil companies getting over. For your scenario to work, the current $2.00/gallon average would roughly have to double." - ok, maybe this belongs in the humor section, but the issue is importain for the masses because what happens if gas reaches $20 an ounce less cars on the road less tanks in Iraq… ok, no, just a higher tax bill, no, strike that, deficit -car bombs would be easier to identify since they would be the only moving vehicle rush hour would be sane if you think more of a balance of cars, bikes, cycles, scooters, etc sharing the roads at rush hour is sane fewer traffic accidents/ fatalities see above -i was thinking “critical mass” & rush hour being less than 1 hour since people will have to live close to work & walk cheaper car insurance -horse & buggy \* see rush hour more expensive in-town real estate, and practically every consumer good lower polution levels -if you don’t mind the “stench” \* see horse & buggy and less utility to go to the places to best appreciate it fewer wasteful/unnescessary trips longer hassle and inconvenience or expense for necessary trips decrease in “road rage incidents” increase in fuel thefts -orginized crime would abandon “traditional” sources of income & start a whole new racket improved bus/transit systems and higher prices for mass transit, due to increased utility value and use -after the oil dries up and/or is not available ox & cart make a come back -buggy whip manufacturing are back in biz police can spend more time finding axe murders and the tax savings can go to buying fresh fruit and veges in winter. alternitive fuel…peat & dried dung roads are dug up & converted to comunity gardens -the politicians, oil companies & car companies finally get their act together after the 22nd cenyury resembles the 19th century [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-benfits-of-high-gas-prices/245383.md?page=2)