# The best and worst parts of major cities to live in **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 21, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898 "2009-02-21T23:22:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/41 "2009-02-23T06:21:08Z")
I didn’t mean best in the sense of where you would live if you are extremely wealthy and want a gated community to protect all your shit. I meant it in the sense of an interesting and enjoyable place. I lived right across the street from what used to be the Ontario Theater on Columbia Road. I just loved it there. Maybe 50 restaurants within easy walking distance, all kinds of interesting shops, all kinds of street activity 24/7. There were even kids who got together and did competitive break dancing on the corner. I remember once at the local drug store, the pharmacist asked over the PA if anyone could help him communicate with an Arabic speaking customer, and like 5 people came up. I would move back there in a second, but I probably couldn’t afford it now. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/42 "2009-02-23T07:27:55Z")
NYC (though I no longer live there, I had lived there most of my adult life): Best: West Village, Upper East Side, Gramercy Park, Chelsea, Brooklyn Hts. Worst: South Bronx ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/43 "2009-02-23T07:52:55Z")
Las Vegas checking in. To be honest, crime happens anywhere; some of the better areas have horrible murders and rapes and cases of child abuse. Two houses from me, in a “nice area” of town, a teenage boy was murdered a few years ago - probably in a drug deal gone bad. But as far as areas where I wouldn’t necessarily want to have my car break down in the middle of the night? North Las Vegas - it is actually a separate city that, coincidentally, is north of Las Vegas. It has some fairly nice areas, but for the most part, that is where quite a bit of gang activity and drug deals go down. For tourists to Las Vegas, probably don’t go walking anywhere north of Stratosphere, and most certainly not in the area directly behind the Stratosphere…not that it is a given you will run into problems, but the area is very “iffy” at best, especially at night. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/44 "2009-02-23T08:41:57Z")
Tokyo covers a good hundred miles east to west, so I’ll just stick to the 23 wards. Best: I really like the neighborhood I’m in now, Minami Senju. 10 years ago it was (almost literally) a dump, but it’s now been completely redesigned and rebuilt as a residential burb with plenty of greenspace. Setagaya Ward has lots of nice residential areas with a good mix of parks and shops everywhere. Sangenjaya was fantastic to live in as a 20-30something, but was a bit too busy to raise kids in. Worst: Shinagawa. Specifically, [This place](http://maps.google.co.jp/maps/ms?hl=ja&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&ll=35.631872,139.751721&spn=0.003091,0.004828&z=18&msid=102533438165999242634.00046391c4fb579a741ea). It was the first condo my wife and I looked at, and while the interior and the harbor view are fantastic, the neighborhood is the most godawful wasteland Tokyo has. Not that dangerous, but you’ve got highways on two sides, a major railway on another, and the city garbage incinerator just across the strait. Everything nearby was either industrial or office building, without a single ‘living’ building in sight. No restaurants, no grocery stores, no video shops, not even a convenience store. We went on a Sunday, and the neighborhood was a ghost town except for the container trucks going to and from the freightyards (the reclaimed island with the freightyards would actually be the worst place, but this is the closest residential building to it). It would be good for a childless executive who never cooks at home and never plans to goes out except by car. If we’d chosen that place (not that we could afford it) we’d have been absolutely miserable. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/45 "2009-02-23T15:08:01Z")
> [@That\_Guy](#): > > Milwaukee County, best I’d have to go with River Hills, maybe Whitefish Bay (AKA White Folks Bay). > Worst part, north side as well. Entirely devoid of any redeeming value whatsoever. I’ve lived in Milwaukee for 30 years and have never, ever gone to the north side for any reason whatsoever. > > City of Milwaukee, I’d say best is the Third Ward (I’m partial to it as I live there). Riverwest, though trendy, is still plagued with fairly high crime, mainly car break-ins and robberys/muggings, and that sandwich delivery driver was killed there a while ago. > Worst, again the north side. Milwaukee is the most segregated city in America, and the north side is why. If you live there and have any money to move anywhere, anywhere else, you do it in a hearbeat. WF Bay is a great place to raise kids, but there’s a lack of good dining and nightlife options. You can’t beat the East side and Third Ward in those areas. I used to live in Riverwest and would go back in a heartbeat if the crime rate went down. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/46 "2009-02-23T15:24:28Z")
> [@BigNik](#): > > Sydney checking in. It’s kinda hard to qualify under the OP’s rules, because the incorporated (i.e. council area) of the City of Sydney doesn’t really equate to the way it works in the US - and the whole definition of a “suburb” is horribly different. > > But the “best” and “worst” is a massive value judgement. If you’re talking about the City of Sydney council, I’d say that the worst part is around Rosebury and the best part would be the Eastern part of Newtown (the Western part is in Marrickville Council’s area), but property prices would argue that Redfern is the worst part and that Elizabeth Bay is the best. > > If you’re talking about Sydney as a real city, the worst part would be in the South West (around Macquarie Fields), and while property prices are highest in Point Piper, I still wouldn’t live there if you paid me. I’m a kid of the Inner West - if I go to the Eastern Suburbs, I get nosebleeds. I agree that rules about “cities” don’t work quite the same way in Australia. However, for me the best part of the City of Sydney to live in would be Glebe, and the worst is Eveleigh Street, Redfern – though some other parts of Redfern aren’t so bad. With the metro area as a whole, I don’t know the southeast so well, so I’d pick Mount Druitt as the worst (though I do have friends that live there by choice), and I might choose Mosman as the best, if I had a few spare million dollars to spend on a house. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/47 "2009-02-23T16:37:57Z")
For Seattle, the best place is Laurelhurst, million dollar homes over looking Lake Washington. You can see the multi million dollar homes of the really rich (Bill Gates, etc.) on the other side of the lake. The worst place is the Rainier Valley. Gang invested and a scary place to get lost in. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/48 "2009-02-23T17:30:02Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > worst anywhere in the Bronx. Riverdale around Van Courtlandt Park is pretty ritzy and nice. [http://www.talkbx.com/forum/gallery/images/1/large/1\_BronxMap.jpg](http://www.talkbx.com/forum/gallery/images/1/large/1_BronxMap.jpg) > **[Riverdale, Bronx](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverdale,_Bronx)** > > Riverdale is a residential neighborhood in the northwestern portion of the New York City borough of the Bronx. Riverdale, which had a population of 47,850 as of the 2000 United States census, contains the city's northernmost point at the University of Mount Saint Vincent. Riverdale's boundaries are disputed, but it is commonly agreed to be bordered by Yonkers to the north, Van Cortlandt Park and Broadway to the east, the Kingsbridge neighborhood to the southeast, either the Harlem River or the... and in fact a lot of the Bronx is not the stereotypical terrible neighborhood. Pelham Parkway, around the Botanical Garden, Kingsbridge, Arthur Avenue, Fordham…these areas aren’t any worse than most of New York. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/49 "2009-02-23T17:54:30Z")
I grew up in Cleveland and the West Park/Kamms Corner area is pretty much the only desirable area left in the city itself. You wouldn’t want to live anywhere on the East Side now - there’s always been rough neighborhoods there, like Hough (which is basically a ghost town now), but there were also some lower-middle-class/working-class neighborhoods that were OK. The collapse of the housing market has turned a good bit of the East side from the E. 50’s to the E. 90’s into an urban desert. It’s incredibly depressing. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/50 "2009-02-23T18:13:06Z")
Tbilisi, Rep. of Georgia. Best is Vake and to a lesser extent, Vera… anywhere up the hill a few blocks above Chavchavadze. Worst… hmmm… everywhere else? ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/51 "2009-02-23T18:13:55Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I lived in DC for 12 years (80’s and early 90’s) and I honestly can’t remember any neighborhood called Trinidad. Where the hell is it? > > I was gonna say Shaw is the worst. And either Dupont or Adams Morgan (for the less financially able) were the best. Yes, Adams Morgan had a riot – but it was kind of fun and no one got killed. It added to the spice of the neighborhood. The recent boom market and gentrification process has changed the city quite a bit. Adams Morgan and Dupont got very expensive and seem a bit more over polished than they used to. DC in general got fairly expensive and prices haven’t declined. Trinidad is the [southern part of Ward 5](http://maps.google.com/maps?q=trinidad++dc&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=xN-iSYDFNce_tge2jpSBDQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=1&ct=image). Trinidad gets rougher as you go north. I haven’t spent a lot of time in Shaw, but it has changed as well. Anything west of the Anacostia River in DC isn’t going to be the worst just in that you will still have grocery stores and restaurants. East of the river, the only sit down restaurant is a Denny’s and there may be a Giant grocery. ---
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/52 "2009-02-23T18:22:26Z")
**Boise, Idaho** (I know, it may not be a _major_ city but I think it should at least get honorable mention): The best part would be the area along Parkcenter Boulevard on the east side of the city. The area runs alongside the river and there’s a great closeup view of the mountains. Surprise Valley in southeast Boise is also nice. Warm Springs Avenue features many of the older “signature” homes of the city, as does Harrison Boulevard, which is north of downtown. Boise doesn’t really have any “bad” areas, per se, but the crime reports tend to show the areas around Vista Avenue and Targhee as being relatively high crime areas. My brother’s police scanner picks up a lot of calls from this area. A lot of the homes there are older units. The area is also close to the airport. I know this violates the OPs criteria, but Garden City, which is an enclave that is nearly surrounded by Boise, is notorious for being “the armpit/asshole of Boise”. There are lots of old trailer parks off of Chinden Boulevard, plus, the only adult bookstore in the area (that I know of, and no, I have never been there) is in Garden City. There are a number of seedy bars, tattoo parlors and other businesses that don’t exactly cater to a family-oriented clientele there. There are also a disproportionately high number of registered sex offenders residing in Garden City. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/53 "2009-02-23T18:43:44Z")
> [@wheresgeorge04](#): > > [The Tenderloin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenderloin,_San_Francisco,_California) is a cesspool, with almost no redeeming value. > > [The Mission](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_District,_San_Francisco,_California), while also generally poor and somewhat dirty, is an amazingly vibrant and varied place to live. I’d say [**HP**](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunters_Point,_San_Francisco,_California) is a bit more difficult a place to live. At least in the TL you can walk a few blocks and be in another neighborhood, and there are lots of good restaurants, bars, and theaters in the TL. People in HP can’t even go shopping without taking two buses up Potrero Hill. And, there’s also all the shootings. (To be fair, HP does have [Speakeasy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speakeasy_Ales_and_Lagers).) I’ve lived in **Duboce Triangle** (which is part of the Castro) for over two years, and I’m not sure there is a better place in the City. There’s a dog park, a supermarket, tons of bars and restaurants, hardware stores… Damn near everything. I think we have a walking score of 99%, and I think the only thing we’re missing is a mainstream movie theater (though we do have the Castro Theater). If that’s not enough, twelve MUNI lines run within three blocks, and it’s a 15 minute walk to BART. But you still don’t need to take them, because you’re a 15 minute walk to the Haight (Upper and Lower), the (rest of) Castro, and the Mission. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/54 "2009-02-23T18:55:03Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > You know, based on some Googling it looks like you’re right, they’re “districts” but not officially separate cities like Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, and the majority of the “neighborhoods” here which are in fact cities unto themselves. I always assumed it was the case for these two neighborhoods as well. Further proving my theory that no one, even in LA, knows where LA is. I think that’s why most people just claim LA for anything west of Vegas and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![zyzzyva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@zyzzyva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zyzzyva)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/55 "2009-02-23T19:10:39Z")
I’m in full agreement with **Troy McClure SF** here. Hunter’s Point is by far the worst part of SF. The Tenderloin isn’t nice, but it has its gems and it’s easy enough to escape. HP isn’t without its gems, but they’re far fewer and surrounded by far more ugliness. Also, the 'Loin has panhandlers and dealers, but HP has drive-bys. Also on the Duboce Triangle bit. The Castro, the Lower Haight, and the Inner Mission are all cool places to hang, but I wouldn’t wanna live there (too noisy). DT is an easy walk from all three, and far quieter and neighborly. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/56 "2009-02-24T00:49:53Z")
> [@Neptunian\_Slug](#): > > I had to look it up myself, its up by Gallaudet in NE. > > Rents in Adams Morgan and surrounding areas certainly are going sky high since I left in 1995, but I don’t know if I would chalk it up as one of the best neighborhoods. I would say Spring Valley/AU Park and Georgetown in terms of the wealth factor. The problem with AU Park and Spring Valley is that, unless you’re a student, it’s a hard place to live without a car. No Metro (other than the bus), not many stores within walking distance, and no good places to hang out with friends. It’s a lovely suburban area, but there’s just no “there” there. Unless, of course, you’re a student at AU - then it makes perfect sense to live there. ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/57 "2009-02-24T01:06:19Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > The problem with AU Park and Spring Valley is that, unless you’re a student, it’s a hard place to live without a car. No Metro (other than the bus), not many stores within walking distance, and no good places to hang out with friends. It’s a lovely suburban area, but there’s just no “there” there. > > Unless, of course, you’re a student at AU - then it makes perfect sense to live there. Agreed. Its not as close to the action as some would like to be. I lived right by the intersection of Wisconsin and Massachusetts so the M buses got me to work at Dupont, the 30 buses got me to Georgetown and the Mall and the 90 buses could get me up to U Street so I was pretty comfortable with the transit. It was a little futher to the grocery, but then my stores were larger than some of the “hole in the wall” Safeways you had closer into the city so I had a bit more selection. If you do have a car, its less of an issue finding street parking up there. And if you value space, you’ll get a bit more space. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/58 "2009-02-24T01:07:47Z")
Orlando worst: [Parramore district](http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=28.549337,-81.389422&spn=0.010291,0.015428&t=h&z=16) (just due west of Downtown.) It’s the only area I can drive through and tell it’s not good, and the only place I definitely wouldn’t want to live (except for inconventient and/or noisy places.) Yeah – that’s the downtown convention hall/concert district it abuts on. Best: IMO, its opposite versus downtown Orlando, [Thornton Park](http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=28.543909,-81.365325&spn=0.010292,0.015428&t=h&z=16) area and anything in its general vicinity. Within walking distance of both downtown and amazing city parks. And, although there aren’t that many local businesses (i.e. corner stores or pubs), the streets are tree-lined (and bricked, although I don’t consider that a plus or minus.) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/59 "2009-02-24T01:13:40Z")
Toronto is a pretty safe city, but if you really would like to get shot I’d suggest Rexdale. Jane-Finch used to be the worst area but the gangs seem to really enjoy blasting away at each other in Rexdale now. For best area, there’s too many choices to say; it sort of depends on what lifestyle you’re looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898/60 "2009-02-24T01:50:07Z")
Minneapolis: The best areas of the town run along the western edge, from the wealthy areas of Kenwood, Lowry Hill and down to Linden Hills. The best area to be a young person in is Uptown, which is just east of Kenwood, around Lake Calhoun, up and down Lyndale and Hennepin. The worst neighborhood used to be Phillips on the central east side, but it’s moved on from there. As I recall, the worst neighborhood for crime is now Hawthorne on the north side, but the entire north side is rotting and getting worse. I moved into the Folwell neighborhood just north-west of Hawthorne back in 1991. At the time I described the neighborhood as “1/3 original owners, 1/3 working class whites, 1/3 working class blacks”. The 1990 Census showed it as 70% white, 20% black, 10% other (Mostly Hmong, Arabs and Native Americans). The 2000 Census showed it to be 70% black, 20% white and 10% other. We went from being about 70-80% owner occupied, to being about 70% rental and 10% vacant. By the time I closed the sale of my house in January 2003, I was glad to be going. St. Paul follows a similar formula. The best neighborhoods (Highland, Groveland, Miriam Park) are on the west side. You don’t want to be caught on the east side after dark. (When we called the cops over the fight at the Midway Perkins when I worked there, and they didn’t get there for quite a long time, the cop told me “You’re pretty much on your own over here. At night we’re all on the east side.”) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-and-worst-parts-of-major-cities-to-live-in/486898.md?page=4)