# The best candidate to challenge Barack Obama in 2012 is Ron Paul **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114 "2010-05-03T03:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/301 "2010-05-06T05:26:25Z")
A lot to ask here, but I’m tired, so I’ll go right to the one thing that jumped out at me most: > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > 1. 2012 is the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, and will gain national attention. Um… Huh? Can you tell me why on Earth this would be so, given what is known about the national media (and the fact that frankly, even educated, historically-minded people would probably care less about observing this anniversary)? ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/302 "2010-05-06T05:53:38Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > A lot to ask here, but I’m tired, so I’ll go right to the one thing that jumped out at me most: > > Um… Huh? > > Can you tell me why on Earth this would be so, given what is known about the national media (and the fact that frankly, even educated, historically-minded people would probably care less about observing this anniversary)? Most people know nothing about the War of 1812, except one thing; they know it happened in 1812. There are hundreds of official celebrations scheduled for all over the country to honor this great event. Since the \*Star Spangled Banner \*came from the War of 1812, that will be a constant reminder. There is also HR 992, which congress plans to pass prior to 2012: > [@](#): > > H.R. 992: James Madison Memorial Commission Act of 2009 > > To establish the James Madison Memorial Commission to develop a plan of action for the establishment and maintenance of a James Madison memorial in Washington, DC, and for other purposes. [http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-992](http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-992) In other words, they are going to build a giant statue of James Madison. They are also going to do dozens of famous battle re-enactments: Battle of New Orleans Battle Baltimore/Fort McHenry Battle of Lake Champlain/Plattsbugh Battle of Horseshoe Bend Battle of Lake Erie Battle of Lundy’s Lane Battle of the Chippewa Battle of York Battle of Tippecanoe etc. This is gonna be big. Real big. The glory of America re-lived. Our most glorious victories & the Era of Good Feelings. Go Ron Paul. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/303 "2010-05-06T06:02:19Z")
Of the 7 reasons to honor James Madison, the bill singles out 4 regarding Madison’s presidency and/or the War of 1812: > [@](#): > > SEC. 2. FINDINGS. > > Congress finds the following: > > (1) President James Madison is often referred to as ‘Father of the Constitution’ for his influence on the Nation’s fundamental laws. > > (2) At age 29, James Madison was the youngest delegate at the Continental Congress. > > (3) In Congress, Representative James Madison drafted the legislation to enact the Bill of Rights. > > **(4) President James Madison declared war on Great Britain, igniting the War of 1812.** > > **(5) President James Madison approved the Treaty of Ghent which ended the War of 1812.** > > (6) President James Madison was the first United States Congressman to become President. > > (7) President James Madison signed a congressional resolution admitting Louisiana to the Union as the eighteenth State on April 30, **1812**. > > (8) President James Madison signed a congressional resolution admitting Indiana to the Union as the nineteenth State on December 11, 1816. [http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-992](http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-992) Also note that the key Louisiana Caucus has a connection here. Plus the Battle of Tippecanoe was in Indiana. The the Southern Republican Leadership Conference was in Louisiana, where Ron Paul has his voters lined up. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/304 "2010-05-06T06:03:41Z")
What does Ron Paul have against paragraphs? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/305 "2010-05-06T06:14:51Z")
Oh, and no comment needed: > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > old voters who have died since 2008 do not support Ron Paul. Plus bonus conspiracy theory, New World Order Illuminatus FTW! > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > Pawlenty is the NWO choice for president.[…] > 15) The NWO sets the pecking order when they start to do polls in early 2011 Also I’m not sure you should be bragging about Paul having a 60 year old’s spunk. I’m not sure the Republicans will vote for an openly gay politician. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/306 "2010-05-06T06:34:24Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Oh, and no comment needed: > > Plus bonus conspiracy theory, New World Order Illuminatus FTW! > > Also I’m not sure you should be bragging about Paul having a 60 year old’s spunk. I’m not sure the Republicans will vote for an openly gay politician. The NWO is not a real organization, it is a label. If you have a problem with it, just call it the GOP establishment or the MSM (Main Stream Media). It is going to come down to Paul vs. Pawlenty. A lot of powerful people are already pushing Pawlenty despite him not being very well known, do a google search if you don’t believe me. Pawlenty is the type of lame candidate the GOP and MSM likes, sort of like McCain 2008. Pawlenty already polls better than everyone else, except Paul, Palin, Romney, Huck, and Newt. [www.intrade.com](http://www.intrade.com) has Pawlenty in 4th, behind Palin, Romney and John Thune. I view Thune as a potential contender from out of the blue, but he is a House member who voted for bailouts. The NWO/MSM/GOP may like the bailout vote, but not the voters. The fact is, major nominations go to Senators, Governors, or VPs, with Ron Paul being the exception because of his fame and intangibles already described, none of which Thune has. Look for Thune in 2016 of 2020, but also Rand Paul at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/307 "2010-05-06T06:40:43Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > 30 reasons Why Ron Paul can win in 2012 (Summary) > > Here is a summary of what Ron Paul has going for him to win the GOP nomination in 2012: I thought this was about beating Obama’s reelection bid? I’d argue that winning the GOP nom is not the same as presenting a major challenge in a presidential election. It’s not entirely inconceivable that Palin and/or Bachmann may enter the primaries. That still doesn’t make them credible candidates for president. Most of the things you list are of little or no help for Paul against Obama. They tend to be things Paul does better than most Republicans, but worse than Obama. That’s not going to draw the middle away from Obama. To pick a few: > [@](#): > > 1. The Tea Party movement backs Ron Paul. The only other leading GOP contender who has any tea party appeal is Sarah Palin. Mitt Romney is a phony and is not fooling anyone. This may help him in the Primaries, but it makes no difference in the Presidential campaign. None of the Teabaggers are going to vote for Obama no matter what he does. I can’t imagine any scenario in which Obama even attempts to court the Tea Party vote. Everyone will plan around Obama winning without them. It’s like worrying that the liberals disillusioned with Obama for being too moderate will vote Republican. > [@](#): > > 1. Every four years, we get an age shift in voters. New young voters tend to back Ron Paul, while old voters who have died since 2008 do not support Ron Paul. A four year shift is about 7% of the electorate. A shift younger than supporters of Obama? He’s only in his 40’s. He was overwhelmingly supported by voters under 30 both against Clinton in the primary and again against McCain. Most younger voters do not vote Republican, it will be much harder for Paul to draw them against the grain then it will be for Obama to maintain a segment with which he’s already popular. > [@](#): > > 1. Newspapers are against Ron Paul; they are going out of business or their circulation is declining. The Internet supports Ron Paul and it is on the rise. The Internet supports Ron Paul? The Internet supports tentacle porn, cats demanding cheeseburgers and the unclogging of a series of tubes. That’s it. If anything Obama has made better use of the medium with Youtube clips and Twitter. But you can’t claim that something like an Internet Community exists in any sort of monolithic sense. For every fan page you’ll get a dozen hate pages. Even if someone like 4chan has to go make them all. > [@](#): > > 1. Voters are getting used to Ron Paul’s “odd” ideas. People are use to Obama is a Muslim, Obama is a Kenyan, and Obama is a Muslim Lizardman from Kenya too. It doesn’t mean that more people are believing them. > [@](#): > > 1. Ron Paul is 74, but has the health and spunk of a 60 year old; he’s not too old to run for president and serve one term in office. This would be a point _against_ him drawing in the younger voters. (see #6) > [@](#): > > 1. Fund-raising - In the 4th quarter of 2007, Ron Paul was the # 1 GOP fundraiser. This was when he was below 10% in the polls. He will raise a lot more if he is at 10%-30% in the polls. Ron Paul could end up with more money to spend than Mitt Romney. > > \*\*There is a $10 million dollar moneybomb already set up for the Boston Tea Party on December 16. \*\* Considering Obama set record levels of fund raising in the last election, even the top GOP fundraiser has his work cut out for him. > [@](#): > > 1. The Wars in the Middle East - People are getting sick of these wars, and Ron Paul opposes them. Democrats who found out Obama was a phony might support Ron Paul. I don’t get this one at all. What do you think people expected? That’d he be sworn in and his first order would be a massive retreat? That everyone would be home within a month? Obama has been pretty clear on reducing troop levels in both Afgahnistan and Iraq. Nobody seriously expected it _not_ to take several years to disentagle from those countries, did they? > [@](#): > > 1. 2012 is the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812, and will gain national attention. Interesting that the president during the War of 1812 was none other than James Madison, the Father of the U.S. Constitution. You know which president got famous from the War of 1812? Andrew Jackson, not Madison. Nobody cared about Madison in 1812, they don’t care now, and I don’t see millions suddenly caring in 2 years. And you may want to read Madison’s part of the Federalist Papers. He’s no Libertarian hero. > [@](#): > > 1. A lot of people are getting sick of the war on drugs. Neither Bush or Obama will even consider legalizing medical marijuana, an issue which polls at 80% in favor of. There are far, far too many other issues for this to be a factor in anybody’s campaign. > [@](#): > > 1. Ron Paul is the only candidate who can talk intelligently about the U.S. Constitution. You do know that Obama is a former Professor of Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago, right? :dubious: > [@](#): > > 1. People are sick of the health care bill, and Ron Paul has credibility in opposing it. Ron Paul is also a medical doctor. A doctor who regularly dispenses advice that’s a complete 180 from the AMA. :rolleyes: You know who else was a doctor? Bill Frist. Ask him about Terri Schiavo. Being a doctor doesn’t mean you aren’t a complete idiot at times. And the health care bill _passed_; granted, it was an incredibly watered down version. That’s a point in Obama’s favor, unless you think Paul is going to win points by campainging on removing a segment of the voting population’s health care. > [@](#): > > 1. Young people will talk their parents and grandparents into voting for Ron Paul. They will vote for their children’s future. Maybe they can have a talk. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp-pDvhdlwE](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp-pDvhdlwE) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/308 "2010-05-06T06:44:59Z")
There is already a James Madison Memorial in Washington DC at the National Archives. It’s called the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/309 "2010-05-06T06:46:28Z")
Here are the other GOP candidates that Intrade has above Ron Paul at this time: Huckabee (already analyzed) Mitch Daniels (governor from Iniana, has potential) Jeb Bush (he would show up in the polls, but with weak support and I doubt he’s running) Paul Ryan (he is trying to get tea party votes but is a GOP yes-man and is only a House member, he looks better down the road than now) Scott Brown (could be the Obama of 2012, but just got in the Senate, has tea party support, is a fake) Newt (not a real candidate) ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/310 "2010-05-06T06:48:23Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > There is already a James Madison Memorial in Washington DC at the National Archives. It’s called the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. Explain HR 992 then? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/311 "2010-05-06T07:01:01Z")
This is awesome. Thank you for posting. An honest question, as I can’t help but notice that two of you showed up at pretty much the same time: is Paul’s campaign gearing up now and sending supporters out on the 'net? If so, how did you get assigned to the Dope? Anyways, seriously, Ron Paul should probably wipe that 60 year old guy’s spunk off before he campaigns much. Or did I misunderstand you and he just keeps it in a vial around his neck as a good luck charm? In any case, he may want to carry a pack of kleenex in his pocket should he get any spunkier. > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > The NWO is not a real organization :eek: > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > intangibles already described Pssst, you can’t describe intangibles, that’s why they’re intangible. > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > 1. Rand Paul is winning by 15% in the Kentucky Senate primary. He is beating both democrats in the general election. **If Rand can win, Ron Paul can win.** > […] > 2. Rand Paul got the endorsements of the Ronald Reagan PAC, Sarah Palin, Steve Forbes, and the Gun Owners of America. Expect to see Ron Paul get some major endorsements, if Rand Paul can. William Clinton won the presidency, twice! If William Clinton won, Hillary Clinton, oh wait… > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > 1. Ron Paul won the CPAC Straw Poll. > […] Ron Paul has an army of volunteers that will hit every straw poll > .25) Ron Paul has enough support to win the Ames Iowa Straw Poll > […] > 2. Ron Paul tied for first in the Southern Republican Leadership Conference Straw Poll See, when you admit that Paul’s supporters are going to fix the results of straw polls, it somewhat lessens the impact of claiming that he will win them. That was one reason why Paul was such a joke the last election go round, people knew that virtually any online poll would be flooded by his supporters and their over-zealousness made him look… > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > The Internet supports Ron Paul and it is on the rise. Pshaw. The Internet is made of tubes, tubes can’t support a guy. > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > 1. Paul’s leading contenders are Sarah Palin, Tim Pawlenty, Mitt Romney, and Mike Huckabee (if he runs). > All these candidates have weaknesses. You forgot Fox Mulder. I trust Fox Mulder to deal with the NWO better than I do some guy who can’t even remember to wipe the spunk off his face before he goes out campaigning. P.S. Paul has weakness like cats have felineness. > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > 1. Ron Paul is good for TV ratings and is getting a lot of national TV interviews on cable news like Fox, CNN, MSNBC and CNBC. > […] > 2. Ron Paul always shines in the TV debates. This time around he will get more attention by the post debate pundits. So the Illuminati all want Paul to lose, and they do this by making sure he gets _lots_ of air time. Ahhhh, those Genius Fools. > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > 1. Voters are getting used to Ron Paul’s “odd” ideas. Not in many polls that aren’t fixed, no. > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > 1. Ron Paul is the only candidate who can talk intelligently about the U.S. Constitution. No, and talk like that just makes Paul sound like an ignorant fanatic. He’s a medical doctor, Obama is an actual constitutional scholar. Trying to take the tack, as your compatriot has, that anybody who doesn’t agree with Paul just doesn’t get it… is self defeating. “Vote for Paul and appreciate his brilliance and how he is the only person who understands the economy, the constitution, international relations and the role of government and the only one who loves freedom and liberty, you morons!” As campaign slogans go, it needs work. > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > 1. Young people will talk their parents and grandparents into voting for Ron Paul. They will vote for their children’s future. Yes, because there’s nothing that parents and grandparents love doing more than letting their 18 year old children tell them who to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/312 "2010-05-06T07:04:51Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > The Internet supports Ron Paul? The Internet supports tentacle porn, cats demanding cheeseburgers and the unclogging of a series of tubes. Ron Paul: “Elect me, and I promise a tentacle cat in every home and a cheeseburger in every pot! And tubes for everyone!!” ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/313 "2010-05-06T07:08:42Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Most of the things you list are of little or no help for Paul against Obama. They tend to be things Paul does better than most Republicans, but worse than Obama. That’s not going to draw the middle away from Obama. The latest Rasmussen poll has Paul down by only 1% to Obama. > [@](#): > > You know which president got famous from the War of 1812? Andrew Jackson, not Madison. Nobody cared about Madison in 1812, they don’t care now, and I don’t see millions suddenly caring in 2 years. And James Monroe who was Secretary of War and Secretary of State. And John Quincy Adams who negotiated the Treaty of Ghent. And William Henry Harrison who won the battle of Tippecanoe and the Battle of the Thames. And Zachary Taylor (Madison’s 2nd cousin), who won the Battle of Fort Harrison. And Captain John Tyler, another war hero. And Davvy Crockett and Sam Houston, soldeirs with Jackson. And Richard Mentor Johnson who became Vice-President in 1836 (“Rumpsey Dumpsey Rumpsey Dumpsey, Colonel Johnson killed Tecumseh”) Henry Clay (“Clay’s War” it is sometimes called) Daniel Webster got famous for opposing the War. Uncle Sam became a fictional icon from the War. War hawk (from the 12th congress) John Calhoun started a long 40 year political career, including becoming Vice-president. Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry became the 2nd most celebrated naval hero in American history (next to John Paul Jones). His famous quote “We have met the enemy and they are us” was one of the most celebrated quotes of the 19th century. The USS Constitution, aka Old Ironsides, is probably the most famous warship in US history. The Federalist Party, which opposed the war, became extinct. Winfield Scott, another victorious general from the war, won a major party nomination for president in 1852. Another war hawk, Langdon Cheves, became Speaker of the House of Representatives. Another war hawk, Felix Gundy, became US Attorney general and a Senator from Tennessee. Another war hawk, William Bibb, was elected the 1st Governor of Alabama after the war, but then died a year later. Another member of the 12th congress (the war hawk congress), William King of North Carolina, was elected vice-president in 1852. Another early supporter of the war, Martin van Buren, was elected president in 1836. In 1812, van Buren was in the New York State Senate. Daniel Tomkins, considered one of the most effective war governers (he was from New York), was elected vice-president in 1816. Another Madison appointed official and diplomat during the war, George Dallas, later became Vice-president, and has the city of Dallas, Texas named after him. General Henry Dearborn had Dearborn Michigan named after him. General Stephen Decatur has 46 communites in the United States named after him. Naval Commander James Lawrence’s dying words “Don’t give up the ship!” became the official slogan of the US navy for over 100 years. > [@](#): > > And you may want to read Madison’s part of the Federalist Papers. He’s no Libertarian hero. I have read them and they are filled with Libertarian quotes. You must be thinking of Hamilton later on. > [@](#): > > You do know that Obama is a former Professor of Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago, right? :dubious: All his papers are sealed, except one. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/314 "2010-05-06T07:31:51Z")
30 More US vistories in the Second War of Independence: 8 MORE NAVAL VICTORIES; USS Constitution vs HMS Guerriere Date 19 August 1812 Location Atlantic Ocean Result American Victory Capture of HMS Frolic USS Wasp captures the HMS FrolicThe capture of HMS Frolic was a naval action fought in the Atlantic of the coast of Virginia on October 18, 1812, between sloops-of-war USS Wasp, commanded by Jacob Jones, and HMS Frolic. The result was an American victory. > **[Capture of HMS Frolic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_HMS_Frolic)** > > East Coast > Great Lakes / Saint Lawrence River > West Indies / Gulf Coast USS United States vs HMS Macedonian Date 25 October 1812 Location Atlantic Ocean Result American Victory Sinking of HMS Peacock The sinking of HMS Peacock was a naval action fought in the Atlantic off the mouth of the Demerara River, Guiana on February 24, 1813, between the brigs USS Hornet and HMS Peacock. After an exchange of broadsides during which the British vessel’s commander was killed, the Peacock attempted to disengage but was pursued by the Hornet and succumbed to raking fire, sinking swiftly. > **[Sinking of HMS Peacock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_HMS_Peacock)** > > East Coast > Great Lakes / Saint Lawrence River > West Indies / Gulf Coast Capture of HMS Boxer Date 5 September 1813 Location off Pemaquid Point, near Bristol, Maine Result American victory > **[Capture of HMS Boxer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_HMS_Boxer)** > > East Coast > Great Lakes / Saint Lawrence River > West Indies / Gulf Coast Capture of HMS Epervier The capture of HMS Epervier was a naval action fought off Cape Canaveral, Florida on April 29, 1814 between the sloop-of-war USS Peacock and the brig HMS Epervier in which the Epervier was captured. > **[Capture of HMS Epervier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_HMS_Epervier)** > > East Coast > Great Lakes / Saint Lawrence River > West Indies / Gulf Coast Capture of Cyane HMS Cyane was a British warship captured by the USS Constitution on 20 February 1815 during the War of 1812. Cyane was sailing in company with HMS Levant. > **[Capture of HMS Cyane and HMS Levant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_Cyane)** > > East Coast > Great Lakes / Saint Lawrence River > West Indies / Gulf Coast > Pacific Ocean Capture of HMS Penguin On March 23, 1815 USS Hornet captured HMS Penguin in a short battle off Tristan da Cunha. This was one of several naval engagements which took place after the War of 1812 had ended. > **[Capture of HMS Penguin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_HMS_Penguin)** > > East Coast > Great Lakes / Saint Lawrence River > West Indies / Gulf Coast 22 MORE LAND VICTORIES; Battle of Tippecanoe Part of Tecumseh’s War/War of 1812 Date November 7, 1811 Location near modern Battle Ground, Indiana Result United States victory > **[Battle of Tippecanoe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tippecanoe)** > > The Battle of Tippecanoe (/ˌtɪpikəˈnuː/ TIP-ee-kə-NOO) was fought on November 7, 1811, in Battle Ground, Indiana, between American forces led by then Governor William Henry Harrison of the Indiana Territory and Native American forces associated with Shawnee leader Tecumseh and his brother Tenskwatawa (commonly known as "The Prophet"), leaders of a confederacy of various tribes who opposed European-American settlement of the American frontier. As tensions and violence increased, Governor Harriso... Battle of Fort Harrison Date September 4 – September 15, 1812 Location Terre Haute, Indiana Result United States victory > **[Fort Harrison, Indiana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Harrison)** > > Fort Harrison was a War of 1812 era stockade constructed in Oct. 1811 on high ground overlooking the Wabash River on a portion of what is today the modern city of Terre Haute, Indiana, by forces under command of Gen. William Henry Harrison. It was a staging point for Harrison to encamp his forces just prior to the Battle of Tippecanoe a month later. The fort was the site of a famous battle in the War of 1812, the siege of Fort Harrison in Sept. 1812 that was the first significant victory for th... Siege of Fort Wayne Date September 5 – September 12, 1812 Location Fort Wayne, Indiana Result American victory > **[Siege of Fort Wayne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Wayne)** > > The siege of Fort Wayne took place from September 5 ― 12 September 1812 during the War of 1812. The stand-off occurred in the modern city of Fort Wayne, Indiana between the United States garrison at Fort Wayne and a combined force of Potawatomi and Miami, supported by British troops. The conflict began when warriors under the Potawatomi Native American Chiefs Winamac, and Five Medals killed two members of the U.S. garrison. Over the next several days, the Potawatomi burned the buildings and cr Th... Raid on Gananoque September 21, 1812 Gananoque, Ontario the Americans seized the stores and burned the government depot > **[Raid on Gananoque](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Gananoque)** > > The Raid on Gananoque was an action conducted by the United States Army on 21 September 1812 against Gananoque, Upper Canada during the War of 1812. The Americans sought to plunder ammunition and stores to resupply their own forces. Gananoque was a key point in the supply chain between Montreal and Kingston, the main base of the Provincial Marine on the Great Lakes. Under the command of Captain Benjamin Forsyth, the Americans departed Ogdensburg, New York and sailed to Gananoque, where they enc... Raid on Elizabethtown Date February 7, 1813 Location Elizabethtown Result Successful American Raid > **[Raid on Elizabethtown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Elizabethtown)** > > The Raid on Elizabethtown occurred on February 7, 1813, when Major Benjamin Forsyth and 200 regulars and militia crossed the frozen St. Lawrence River to occupy Elizabethtown, Upper Canada (present day Brockville, Ontario), seize military and public stores, free American prisoners and capture British military prisoners. This was the second successful raid by Forsyth along the St. Lawrence River, having previously attacked Gananoque. The success of the two raids prompted a response by the British,... Siege of Fort Meigs Date 28 April – 9 May, 1813 Location present-day Perrysburg, Ohio Result American Victory > **[Siege of Fort Meigs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Meigs)** > > American victory > The siege of Fort Meigs took place in late April to early May 1813 during the War of 1812 in northwestern Ohio, present-day Perrysburg. A small British Army unit with support from Indians attempted to capture the recently constructed fort to forestall an American offensive against Detroit, and its Fort Detroit in the Great Lakes region which the British from the north in Canada had captured the previous year. An American sortie and relief attempt failed with heavy casualties, bu... Battle of Fort George Date May 25 – May 27, 1813 Location Present day Niagara on the Lake, Ontario Result American victory > **[Battle of Fort George](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_George)** > > .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct,.mw-parser-output .geo-inline-hidden{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}43°15′03″N 79°03′40″W / 43.250752°N 79.061111°W / 43.250752; -79.061111 > East Coast > Great Lakes / Saint Lawrence River > West Indies / Gulf Coast Battle of Craney Island Date June 22, 1813 Location Portsmouth, Virginia Result American victory > **[Battle of Craney Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Craney_Island)** > > The Battle of Craney Island was a victory for the United States during the War of 1812. The battle saved the city of Norfolk, and the adjacent city of Portsmouth, from British invasion. Especially important to Virginia and northeastern North Carolina, the region was a major hub for American commerce. > Admiral Sir George Cockburn commanded a British fleet blockading Chesapeake Bay. In early 1813, Cockburn and Admiral Sir John B. Warren planned to attack the Gosport Shipyard in Portsmouth and cap... Battle of Talladega Date November 9, 1813 Location Mississippi Territory Result U.S. victory > **[Battle of Talladega](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Talladega)** > > .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct,.mw-parser-output .geo-inline-hidden{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}33°27′3.32″N 86°10′7.9″W / 33.4509222°N 86.168861°W / 33.4509222; -86.168861 > The Battle of Talladega was fought between the Tennessee Militia and the Red Stick Creek Indians during the Creek War, in the... Battle of Tallushatchee Date November 3, 1813 Location Mississippi Territory Result U.S. victory > **[Battle of Tallushatchee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tallushatchee)** > > .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct,.mw-parser-output .geo-inline-hidden{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}33°48′44.4″N 85°54′24.94″W / 33.812333°N 85.9069278°W / 33.812333; -85.9069278 > The Battle of Tallushatchee was a battle fought during the War of 1812 and Creek War on November 3, 1813, in Alabama betwee... Battle of Longwoods Date 4 March, 1814 Location near Wardsville in present day Southwest Middlesex, Ontario Result American Victory > **[Battle of Longwoods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longwoods)** > > The Battle of Longwoods took place during the Anglo-American War of 1812. On 4 March 1814, a mounted American raiding party defeated an attempt by British regulars, volunteers from the Canadian militia and Native Americans to intercept them near Wardsville, in present-day Southwest Middlesex, Ontario. > In October, 1813, in the aftermath of the American naval victory of the Battle of Lake Erie, an American army under Major General William Henry Harrison recovered Detroit (which the British had c... Battle of Big Sandy Creek Date May 29 – May 30, 1814 Location Sandy Creek (town), New York Result American victory > **[Battle of Big Sandy Creek](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Big_Sandy_Creek)** > > The Battle of Big Sandy Creek was fought in northwestern New York on May 29–30, 1814, during the War of 1812. American troops and Oneida Indians launched an attempted surprise attack on British troops and sailors, who were pursuing them inland from Lake Ontario. > With the loss of a boat, and its subsequent discovery by British forces, the Americans lost the element of surprise prior to the battle. Nevertheless, the strategy was still implemented successfully, forcing the entire British force to s... Battle of Fort Stephenson Date August 2, 1813 Location Sandusky County, Ohio Result American Victory > **[Battle of Fort Stephenson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Stephenson)** > > The Battle of Fort Stephenson in August 1813 was an American victory during the War of 1812. American forces successfully defended the fort in August 1813; it guarded an important supply depot. It was located on the west bank of the Sandusky River more than 10 miles upstream from Sandusky Bay in what is now Ohio. The town of Fremont, Ohio developed around the site. > After failing to defeat American forces in the siege of Fort Meigs, the British under Henry Procter withdrew. Procter attempted to t... Battle of St. Michaels Date August 10, 1813 Location St. Michaels, Maryland Result American victory > **[Battle of St. Michaels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_St._Michaels)** > > The Battle of St. Michaels was an engagement contested on August 10, 1813, during the War of 1812. British soldiers attacked the American militia at St. Michaels, Maryland, which is located on Maryland's Eastern Shore with access to Chesapeake Bay. At the time, this small town was on the main shipping route to important cities such as Baltimore and Washington, D.C. > Although St. Michaels had little importance compared to Washington and Baltimore, it was a target for the British because of its s... Raid on Port Dover Date 14 May - 16 May, 1814 Location Port Dover, Norfolk County, Ontario Result American Victory > **[Raid on Port Dover](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Port_Dover)** > > The Raid on Port Dover was an episode during the War of 1812. American troops crossed Lake Erie to capture or destroy stocks of grain and destroy mills at Port Dover, Ontario, which were used to provide flour for British troops stationed on the Niagara Peninsula. At the instigation of Lieutenant Colonel John B. Campbell and without sanction from his superiors or the government of the United States, the Americans also destroyed private houses and other property, prompting British commanders to d... Capture of Fort Erie Date July 3, 1814 Location Fort Erie, Ontario Result American victory > **[Capture of Fort Erie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_Fort_Erie)** > > .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct,.mw-parser-output .geo-inline-hidden{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}42°53′36″N 78°55′26″W / 42.893351°N 78.923969°W / 42.893351; -78.923969 > The Capture of Fort Erie by American forces in 1814 was a battle in the War of 1812 between the United Kingdom and the United Stat... Siege of Fort Erie Date 4 August – 21 September, 1814 Location Fort Erie, Ontario Result American victory > **[Siege of Fort Erie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Erie)** > > The siege of Fort Erie, also known as the Battle of Erie, from 4 August to 21 September 1814, was one of the last engagements of the War of 1812, between British and American forces. It took place during the Niagara campaign, and the Americans successfully defended Fort Erie against a British army. During the siege, the British suffered high casualties in a failed storming attempt; they also suffered casualties from sickness and exposure in their rough encampments. Unaware that the British were a... Battle of Caulk’s Field Date August 31, 1814 Location near Fairlee, Maryland Result American victory > **[Battle of Caulk's Field](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Caulk%27s_Field)** > > The Battle of Caulk's Field was fought during the War of 1812 in Kent County, Maryland between a small British Army force commanded by Captain Sir Peter Parker and American militia forces commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Philip Reed. Parker, who was operating in the Chesapeake Bay region as part of the British campaign against Baltimore, Maryland, landed on the eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay to move against Reed's militia encampment. The British attacking force encountered American skirmi... Battle of North Point Date September 12, 1814 Location North Point, Maryland Result Strategic American Victory > **[Battle of North Point](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_North_Point)** > > The Battle of North Point was fought on September 12, 1814, between General John Stricker's Maryland Militia and a British force led by Major General Robert Ross. Although the Americans retreated, they were able to do so in good order having inflicted significant casualties on the British, killing one of the commanders of the invading force, significantly demoralizing the troops under his command and leaving some of his units lost among woods and swampy creeks, with others in confusion. This comb... The First Battle of Fort Bowyer September 1814 Location Fort Bowyer, Alabama The defeat at Fort Bowyer led the British to decide to attack New Orleans instead. > **[Fort Bowyer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Bowyer)** > > Fort Bowyer was a short-lived earthen and stockade fortification that the United States Army erected in 1813 on Mobile Point, near the mouth of Mobile Bay in what is now Baldwin County, Alabama, but then was part of the Mississippi Territory. The British twice attacked the fort during the War of 1812. > The first attack took place in September 1814; unsuccessful, it led to the British changing their strategy and attacking New Orleans. The second attack, following the Battle of New Orleans, was suc... Battle of Malcolm’s Mills Date November 6, 1814 Location Oakland, Brant County, Ontario Result American Victory Battle of Pensacola Date November 7 – November 9, 1814 Location Pensacola, Florida Result American victory > **[Battle of Pensacola (1814)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pensacola_(1814))** > > American victory > The Battle of Pensacola (7-9 November 1814) was a battle of the Creek War during the War of 1812, in which American forces fought against forces from the kingdoms of Britain and Spain who were aided by the Creek Indians and African-American slaves allied with the British. General Andrew Jackson led his infantry against British and Spanish forces controlling the city of Pensacola in Spanish Florida. Allied forces abandoned the city, and the remaining Spanish forces surrendered to... ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/315 "2010-05-06T07:33:39Z")
Key American Victories in the War of 1812: Battle of York Date 27 April, 1813 Location Present day Toronto, Ontario Result American victory > **[Battle of York](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_York)** > > .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct,.mw-parser-output .geo-inline-hidden{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}43°39′09″N 79°22′54″W / 43.65250°N 79.38167°W / 43.65250; -79.38167 > East Coast > Great Lakes / Saint Lawrence River > West Indies / Gulf Coast Battle of Sacket’s Harbor Date 28 May – 29 May, 1813 Location Sackett’s Harbor, New York Result American victory Battle of Lake Erie Date 10 September, 1813 Location Lake Erie, near Put-in-Bay, Ohio Result Decisive American Victory > **[Battle of Lake Erie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lake_Erie)** > > 540 men > 1,536 lb broadside > 450 men > 804 lb total broadside > East Coast Battle of the Thames Date October 5, 1813 Location Near Moravian of the Thames First Nation in present day Chatham-Kent, Ontario Result Decisive American victory > **[Battle of the Thames](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Thames)** > > American victory > 1,100–1,800: > 3,760+: > The Battle of the Thames /ˈtɛmz/, also known as the Battle of Moraviantown, was an American victory in the War of 1812 against Tecumseh's Confederacy and their British allies. It took place on October 5, 1813, in Upper Canada, near Chatham. The British lost control of Southwestern Ontario as a result of the battle; Tecumseh was killed, and his confederacy largely fell apart. Battle of Horseshoe Bend (1814) Date March 27, 1814 Location near Dadeville, Alabama Result Decisive U.S. - Indian victory Battle of Chippawa Date July 5, 1814 Location Chippawa, Ontario Result American victory > **[Battle of Chippawa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chippawa)** > > The Battle of Chippawa, also known as the Battle of Chippewa, was a victory for the United States Army in the War of 1812, during its invasion on July 5, 1814, of the British Empire's colony of Upper Canada along the Niagara River. This battle and the subsequent Battle of Lundy's Lane demonstrated that trained American troops could hold their own against British regulars. The battlefield is preserved as a National Historic Site of Canada. > Early in 1814, it was clear that Napoleon was defeated ... Battle of Plattsburgh Date September 6 – September 11, 1814 Location Plattsburgh, New York Result Decisive American victory > **[Battle of Plattsburgh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Plattsburgh)** > >  United Kingdom > 6,354 > 2,651 fit to fight > 803 invalids Battle of Baltimore Date September 12 – September 15, 1814 Location Baltimore, Maryland Result Decisive American victory > **[Battle of Baltimore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baltimore)** > > East Coast > Great Lakes / Saint Lawrence River > West Indies / Gulf Coast Battle of New Orleans Date December 23 - January 8, 1815 Location About five miles (8 km) south of New Orleans on the grounds of Chalmette Plantation Result American victory; British troops and fleet withdraw from Louisiana > **[Battle of New Orleans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_New_Orleans)** > >  United States >  United Kingdom > East Coast ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/316 "2010-05-06T08:25:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Ron Paul: “Elect me, and I promise a tentacle cat in every home and a cheeseburger in every pot! And tubes for everyone!!” Don’t be silly. Ron Paul understands the Constitution better than anybody alive, he is an economic genius, he is the only force for freedom and liberty in the entire world. Ron Paul understands that for the government to give you a tentacle cat and a cheeseburger, not to mention tubes, would be to violate all propriety and decency while simultaneously skullfucking the very founding fathers themselves, thereby wasting precious spunk that Paul plans on hoarding. No, what Paul does promise is that he will try (not very hard) to use the government to stop the Illuminati and the New World Order from taking your tentacle cats and eating your cheeseburgers right in front of you while making obscene gestures at your wife. Unless the Illuminati uses the invisible hand of the free market to reach into your home and steal your cat, and then all bets are off because who do you think Ron Paul is, a fascist? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/317 "2010-05-06T08:55:01Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > The latest Rasmussen poll has Paul down by only 1% to Obama. Because polls this far out are totally reliable. To say nothing of the fact that the question for the poll was essentially “Do you want Obama, or another guy?” and that Paul polls very low with Republicans. To say nothing of the fact that Paul hasn’t been opening his mouth all that much (or quizzed on his endorsement of racist statements that he later claimed to know nothing about), or been caught, again, refusing to return donations from racist organizations once they were identified, and so on. His followers also haven’t ramped up to a frenzy pitch yet, so they haven’t been able to reduce his electability just yet. Speaking of how Paul’s supporters can best help him, please continue your War on Paragraphs while posting random names of battles and politicians. The Gish Gallop definitely is a quality tactic. > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > All his papers are sealed, except one. This is simply untrue. Obama’s lecture notes from his time as a professor of constitutional law are certainly not hidden in any way, shape or form. Further, his work while he was the editor of the law review wasn’t to write papers but to edit them, nothing was “sealed” and the one article he did write simply went unsigned. What, do you think that the NWO gathered up all the copies that were printed and disappeared them? ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/318 "2010-05-06T09:06:42Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > The latest Rasmussen poll has Paul down by only 1% to Obama. Already covered. One poll does not make nor necessarily reflect a trend. Moreover, Ron Paul still does worse than “generic GOP candidate”. The fact that he does better than other named candidates is simply because fewer people know who he is. [Link, again](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/04/romney-not-paul-fares-best-in-12.html) > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > 1. The NWO sets the pecking order when they start to do polls in early 2011. In 2007, Ron Paul was at 1% in these polls. Ron Paul will be at a minimum of 10% in the early 2011 polls, putting him among the viable contenders from the beginning. What are you going to do if (when) Ron Paul **doesn’t** have 10% support in early 2011? ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/319 "2010-05-06T09:08:16Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Because polls this far out are totally reliable. > To say nothing of the fact that the question for the poll was essentially “Do you want Obama, or another guy?” and that Paul polls very low with Republicans. Hilariously, Obama is outpolled by “other guy”, but when the pollsters name the other guy as Ron Paul, his support drops and Obama wins again. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/320 "2010-05-06T10:07:33Z")
Before I vote, you’re going to have to tell me what Dr. President Ron Paul’s salary will be in Ameros. Because I’m fiscally conservative. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=17)