# The best candidate to challenge Barack Obama in 2012 is Ron Paul **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114 "2010-05-03T03:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/341 "2010-05-06T14:44:31Z")
Honestly, I have a hard time picturing how Paul could possibly win a national Republican primary; if he does gain any traction, how in the world will he survive the attack ads pointing out that he’s a hippy who wants to legalize pot and abolish the army? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/342 "2010-05-06T14:47:44Z")
Like Vietnam (would Kevin Kline lie to me?), the War of 1812 was a draw. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/343 "2010-05-06T14:47:45Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > Yes, if Madison can follow the Constitution despite great danger, then modern presidents can follow the Constitution when we have much less danger. > > What Ron says can be done, it has already been done. Can you walk me through this? 1. Madison was a better president than Bush. (I’m with you here, I’d put most names and a few inanimate objects ahead of Bush) 2. Madison understood the US Constitution and believed in it. (Implicit, he helped write it.) 3. Paul understands the US Constitution and believes in it. (Given statement: Only Paul can speak intelligently about the Constitution.) 4. Therefore Paul is equal to Madison and better than Bush. (Bit of a leap here…) 5. Obama is equal to Bush. (???) 6. Therefore Paul is better than Obama. (Because Paul is better than Bush.) Am I close? I know I left out profit somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/344 "2010-05-06T14:52:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, your post on the Ron Paul forums had 30 reasons. But now that you say there’s another list, I see you put a shorter list on a lot of sites, too. My point stands: no more copy and paste jobs, period. If you want to show off a long list you put together, briefly tell us the gist of it and link to the rest. No, it had 25 reasons: [http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=235247](http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=235247) and many changes were made because that was an old list and new thought have occurred to me. I think you just have a bias against Ron Paul and James Madison. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/345 "2010-05-06T14:53:38Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > No, it had 25 reasons: [http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=235247](http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=235247) [So what would you call this?](http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2680087) You posted it _this morning_, less than an hour before you showed up over here. Your answer had better be good because you are now seriously trying my patience. You’re almost as bad as that James Madison guy. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/346 "2010-05-06T14:53:54Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Of all the pro-Paul arguments I’ve seen here, the idea that young people will persuade older people to vote for him is the most ludicrous. > > As a practical matter, there is one issue that trumps all others for senior citizens, and that’s Social Security. Even the most socially conservative senior citizen thinks of Social Security as an entitlement, and will turn quickly against any candidate who’s perceived as wanting to reduce (or even just reduce INCREASES in) Social Security spending. > > Ron Paul is a libertarian, which means he opposes the entire Social Security system. That may appeal to a segment of young voters, but that will make him POISON to senior citizens in any election. Rand Paul is kicking ass among old people in Kentucky. ---
**Author:** ![kingbighair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kingbighair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingbighair)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/347 "2010-05-06T14:54:01Z")
If the US were made up of slightly above average intelligence, upper middle class white males between the ages of 15 - 30 who have the world all figured out because they read a 60 year old book and who would have made it to where they are today without help from anyone, parents nor government, Ron Paul would win in a walk. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/348 "2010-05-06T14:54:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [So what’s this?](http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2680087) Make it a good answer because you are now seriously trying my patience. I copied that from this site and put it over there. It was here first. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/349 "2010-05-06T14:57:55Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > I copied that from this site and put it over there. It was here first. Posting time on Ron Paul forums: Today, 12:20 AM. Posting time here: Today 01:07 AM. I’ll assume the Paul forums are on central time if that helps you. Regardless, don’t paste any more stuff here that originated somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/350 "2010-05-06T15:01:36Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > (Of course the Paul campaign has an excuse. They say he only opposed the Congressional Gold Medal for Rosa Parks because the Constitution does not authorize Congress to give awards. Unfortunately for them, Ron Paul has voted in favor of Congressional awards for white people [many times](http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2007/07/11/ron-paul-rosa-parks/). He only views such awards as unconstitutional when they’re given to black people. Ron Paul is a racist and the more facts one knows, the more obvious it becomes.) Much though I hate tp admit it, I think the Paul people are being honest here. Paul might be ok with other Congressional awards, but he pretty consistently votes against giving the Congressional Gold Medal. He did vote for one for the moon landing astronauts, but even voted against giving a medal to the Reagans. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/351 "2010-05-06T15:04:35Z")
In terms of rallying support for your candidate, here’s a tip for Ron Paul groupies: stop with all the references to the Federalist papers, James Madison, the Constitution etc. It does not get me intrigued with Ron Paul; it makes me want to reach for my Flit gun. My reaction when I see the types of people who are enthusiastic about Ron Paul is much the same. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/352 "2010-05-06T15:16:20Z")
The actual War of 1812 made Andrew Jackson a hero and propelled him to the presidency. Was Jackson a libertarian, in any sense of the word? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/353 "2010-05-06T15:25:03Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > The actual War of 1812 made Andrew Jackson a hero and propelled him to the presidency. Was Jackson a libertarian, in any sense of the word? Well, that would be anachronistic, but he was opposed to the national bank, was against paper money, paid off the national debt, and Murray Rothbard loved the man, so he had some libertarian qualities. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/354 "2010-05-06T15:28:15Z")
My point is that it’s clearly ridiculous to posit that the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 will benefit any particular ideology or any particular candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/355 "2010-05-06T15:36:54Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > My point is that it’s clearly ridiculous to posit that the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 will benefit any particular ideology or any particular candidate. What about the 250th anniversary of the opening of Fraunces Tavern in New York? Ron can open his 2012 campaign there with the theme of his speech to be “Recapturing the glories of the past, with a menu suitable for today’s tastes”. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/356 "2010-05-06T15:43:40Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > I think we lost that one, but what the heck, why not throw it into the festivities. I’m quite certain that we won that one, actually. There’s a big monument with a statue of the victorious general gazing across the battlefield from atop a column and everything. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/357 "2010-05-06T15:52:50Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What about the 250th anniversary of the opening of Fraunces Tavern in New York? Ron can open his 2012 campaign there with the theme of his speech to be “Recapturing the glories of the past, with a menu suitable for today’s tastes”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/358 "2010-05-06T16:13:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Posting time on Ron Paul forums: Today, 12:20 AM. > Posting time here: Today 01:07 AM. > > I’ll assume the Paul forums are on central time if that helps you. Regardless, don’t paste any more stuff here that originated somewhere else. OK ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/359 "2010-05-06T16:19:28Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I’m quite certain that we won that one, actually. There’s a big monument with a statue of the victorious general gazing across the battlefield from atop a column and everything. We lost, but we did kill Brock: > **[Battle of Queenston Heights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Queenston_Heights)** > > The Battle of Queenston Heights was the first major engagement of the War of 1812. The battle took place on 13 October 1812, at Queenston in Upper Canada (now Ontario) and was a decisive British victory. United States regulars and New York militia led by Major General Stephen Van Rensselaer crossed the Niagara River from Lewiston and engaged British regulars and Canadian militia led by Major General Isaac Brock. Major General Roger Hale Sheaffe took command of British forces after Brock was kil... ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/360 "2010-05-06T16:24:10Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > My point is that it’s clearly ridiculous to posit that the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 will benefit any particular ideology or any particular candidate. You could be right, but my goal is to re-awaken the American public to the glories of the War of 1812. Are you with us? We have the Ron Paul movement, the Rand Paul movement, the Libertarian Party, The Constitution Party, and the Tea Party potentially on board so far. _Soon, the media will not be able to ignore the War of 1812 anymore._ I am an advocate for the War of 1812. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=19)