# The best candidate to challenge Barack Obama in 2012 is Ron Paul **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114 "2010-05-03T03:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/601 "2010-05-08T01:31:12Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > Paul is a wide ranging genius. […] Paul’s sagacious mind is able to absorb wisdom and ingest nuggets of truth. Slogan! ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/602 "2010-05-08T01:37:57Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > Paul is a wide ranging genius. He is a near expert on the civil war and follows DiLorenzo, the world’s leading civl war expert. Paul’s sagacious mind is able to absorb wisdom and ingest nuggets of truth. We’re still on Ron Paul, not L. Ron Hubbard, right? It’s getting harder and harder to tell. And I’m sorry, but you can’t be claiming Thomas DiLorenzo _the economics professor from Loyola_ is the world’s leading expert on the US Civil War. Please tell me I have the wrong DiLorenzo. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/603 "2010-05-08T01:48:43Z")
Seems like [that’s the guy.](http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo39.html) As hosted by Lew Rockwell. Rockwell who was the editor of Paul’s newsletter during the time it wrote those racist things that Paul had never heard of but went on to endorse both personally and through is spokesman… and [quite possibly the author of those racist articles himself.](http://reason.com/archives/2008/01/16/who-wrote-ron-pauls-newsletter) Obviously a man who needs to take my advice and fuck some Jews, blow his mind right to pieces. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/604 "2010-05-08T01:56:16Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > Madison could have sent Jackson up to conquer Canada after New Orleans, but Madison wanted to keep loss of life and property to a minimum. Historical fact - Madison could not have, as the Treaty of Ghent was already signed by the time of the Battle of New Orleans. > [@](#): > > - Jefferson is 11th. But evidence from foreign archives shows that Jefferson was mostly Madison’s puppet as president, … > > - Washington is 12th. But when Washingto first took office, he was mostly Madison’s puppet … > > - Jackson is 15th. … > > In 1832, Jackson even travelled down to Virginia to make a personal visit to Madison, where Madison gave him the go-ahead to get rid pf the bank, and instructed him on nullification. I’ll add at this point that I had no idea that Madison founded the Illuminati. I would also like to note, if I can stop laughing long enough to type it out, that the concept that Washington or Jefferson or Jackson were puppets of anyone may be among the most ludicrous thoughts that I have ever read on this board. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/605 "2010-05-08T01:57:56Z")
“Ron Paul: the Founding Fathers were puppets of James Madison. Vote for Ron!” ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/606 "2010-05-08T01:59:01Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > No, the George III was the traitor. How in the name of God’s green earth can George III be a traitor? Treason is waging war against the Crown. George _was_ the Crown. This thread is just bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/607 "2010-05-08T02:11:09Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > How in the name of God’s green earth can George III be a traitor? Treason is waging war against the Crown. George _was_ the Crown. Good heavens, don’t bring good Canadian common sense into the thread. Sheesh. Bizarre is good. I’m in need of bizarre amusement, and this thread certainly is supplying that. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/608 "2010-05-08T02:15:04Z")
Shush you. They haven’t figured out I’m Canadian yet, even with my tweaking about the Battle of Queenston Heights. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/609 "2010-05-08T02:40:57Z")
> [@Galileo Galilei](#): > > Madison could have sent Jackson up to conquer Canada after New Orleans, but Madison wanted to keep loss of life and property to a minimum. Not to mention wear and tear on the moccasins. “I just hiked all the way from New Orleans to Montreal, and boy am I tired!” ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/610 "2010-05-08T02:49:18Z")
“Ron Paul: Madison totally could have conquered Canada. Rote for Ron!” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/611 "2010-05-08T02:53:34Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > Paul’s sagacious mind is able to absorb wisdom and ingest nuggets of truth. I’ll bet his farts smell like _liberty_. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/612 "2010-05-08T03:14:26Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > This is a great find. One of the principles of our Founding Fathers was to end slavery. This was at a time, in the 18th century, when the slave trade filled up the entire Atlantic ocean. Our Fathers bucked the trend and spoke for liberty. And yet Great Britain and many other countries banned slavery before the U.S. Go figure, I guess. > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > Ron Paul is already on record of being against the civil war. Remember how you said Ron Paul was going to win lots of black votes? I don’t think opposing the war that ended African slavery is going to help him here. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/613 "2010-05-08T03:16:50Z")
I am on record as being against the construction of the pyramids. I am a fiscal pragmatist, vote for me. On a serious note, the idea that the US should have bought the freedom of slaves is probably one of the weirdest things said yet. What, we should have confirmed that black people were property and paid for them? Who, exactly should have paid for them? At market prices or so that slave owners could recoup their investments and make a profit? What would have happened if we paid for all the slaves and then the slave owners just went and bought new ones? ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/614 "2010-05-08T03:43:12Z")
The whole buying slave owners out instead of having a war is gone over in the other thread I linked to earlier. But to sum up what I’m positive **Galileo Galilei** ’s responses will be: He’ll think they should have receivied fair compensation. (Mississippi at the time said that this was $1000 a slave) It was already illegal to import new slaves so expect a comment about how if you had only read DiLorenzo you’d know that. What he won’t bring up will be that even at $100 a slave it exceeded the 1860 Federal Budget by a factor of 5. He will not explain how this money was going to be produced or where it will come from. He will not mention whether we’d still have a Freedmen’s Bureau or the Civil Right’s Act of 1866, even though without those the “just shy of slavery” Black Codes would have gone into effect. He won’t mention Reconstruction, its necessity in bringing the South into the Industrial Age, or how it would have happened with a buyout. I believe the standard strategy is to all but deny Reconstruction ever happened anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/615 "2010-05-08T03:51:08Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > slavery is unconstitutional. Since half of the Founding Fathers owned slaves they were violating the constitution they just wrote. Therefore you must think that the FFs were moronic hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/616 "2010-05-08T04:02:39Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > It was already illegal to import new slaves In the early 1800’s, IIRC. But there would be nothing to stop slave owners from selling off some of their stock to the fed in order to get a bit of liquidity (especially if they could turn a profit) and buying/breeding/selling new ones. After all, if it was a volitional exchange of property, some slave owners could’ve simply said “no.” In fact, it would have essentially served as subsidized slavery. If your slaves get old or aren’t working as well as you want, just sell those ones off at a good price to Uncle Sam and then buy yourself some new, healthy slaves. Meanwhile you keep a few around as breeding stock and sell them to other slave owners who pay for them with money the fed gives _them_ for their worn out slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/617 "2010-05-08T04:18:46Z")
Don’t ask me to defend it. I’m aware it wouldn’t have worked. It’s Ron Paul who’s confused. I’m not sure you could have used it to just slowly get rid of slaves and somehow never quite make it all the way. My impression was that they think the US Army should have knocked on your door, declared “eminent domain” on your slaves and cut you a check, and then gone to your neighbor’s. Of course thats what the South was afraid of happening in the first place. I’m still unclear on how making the South’s fears come true would have stopped them from leaving due to fear of the government taking their slaves. Honestly, Madison should have fixed all this back in 1812, if not when he singlehandedly wrote the Constitution. If he hadn’t been such a racist ass he could’ve prevented this whole mess. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/618 "2010-05-08T04:41:48Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > On a serious note, the idea that the US should have bought the freedom of slaves is probably one of the weirdest things said yet. What, we should have confirmed that black people were property and paid for them? Who, exactly should have paid for them? At market prices or so that slave owners could recoup their investments and make a profit? What would have happened if we paid for all the slaves and then the slave owners just went and bought new ones? Didn’t Britian actually do this when they freed their slaves? I have a vague memory that they paid some sort of compensation to slaveholders as recompensense anyways. Not that I think it would’ve been a workable solution in 1860 US, for all the reasons people have already mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/619 "2010-05-08T04:52:20Z")
Yes, but the dynamics were different. Britain was able to act unilaterally to free a comparatively small segment of slaves that weren’t essential to their economy. The idea that the South’s economy would be ruined and their slaves taken away was the whole point behind defending slavery in the first place. If it wasn’t volitional, but mandator,y we just end up at the same exact situation; the fed wants to take the south’s slaves away and the south says that they’re go to war to prevent it. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/620 "2010-05-08T04:52:58Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Singularly? > > Because if he was the traitor, then we have to downgrade the traitorous acts of the Founding Fathers from no longer recognising the authority of their King to the taking up of arms against their fellow subjects, killing of British soldiers, not recognising the authority of their government, all that general War stuff. Which is still pretty traitorous, all told. You know, the “backstabbing your own people” bit. > > Just as a note, you don’t refer to kings (at least, Kings of GB and NI and all that) as “the”. Just “No, George III was the traitor” would be the grammatically correct statement. Oops, I forgot Benedict Arnold. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=32)