# The best candidate to challenge Barack Obama in 2012 is Ron Paul **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114 "2010-05-03T03:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/661 "2010-05-08T08:12:49Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > It is not just most historians who agree with me, it is the French foreign minister at the time, one person who knew firsthand that Madison was running the show. The ambassador said Jefferson took Madison’s advice on foreign affairs. That does not support your view that Jefferson was a puppet of Madison. > [@](#): > > Show me a historian who is aware, but disagrees. Your own source acknowledges disagreement. Note the word “most.” And your source does not make any huffy no-true-scotsman dismissals. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/662 "2010-05-08T12:20:17Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Perhaps the mods share my opinion that you’re worth keeping around because you’re comedy gold? Well, we considered sending this to the Games forum, but we get so little humor, here, that we figured we’d just leave it. It has been much funnier than most of the CT threads. > [@](#): > > Things Ron Paul has in common with Sonny Bono: both guys who served in the House. And head injuries? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/663 "2010-05-08T14:06:54Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > That’s odd. I mean, he’s certainly a famous traitor (though not so famous as the Founding Fathers). But I find it very hard to believe that no person besides Benedict Arnold betrayed the U.S.. > > If it’s possible, would you outline for me the reasons why George III and Benedict Arnold were traitors, but the Founding Fathers were not? “Treason never prospers, for if it prospers none dare call it treason”; the Founding Fathers prospered, Arnold didn’t. As for George IIII don’t think that he could have been a traitor even if he’d tried, being the head of a monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/664 "2010-05-08T15:50:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The ambassador said Jefferson took Madison’s advice on foreign affairs. That does not support your view that Jefferson was a puppet of Madison. The Foreign Minister said Madison governed Jefferson. This quote comes from Madison’s own time, it is not made up by historians. It is ironic how you defend Jefferson. I think it is your subconcious that supports Ron Paul, since Ron Paul leans towards Jefferson over Madison. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/665 "2010-05-08T16:11:08Z")
Either this is performance art, or the Paulistas have been taking lessons from the LaRouchies. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/666 "2010-05-08T17:45:39Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > The Foreign Minister said Madison governed Jefferson. _On matters of foreign policy._ You’ve said Madison was Jefferson’s puppet, which means Madison “governed” Jefferson on everything. And particularly the first time you presented that quote, you shortened it to make it sounds like the foreign minister (and historians) believe Jefferson took all of his instructions from Madison. This is clearly not what he was saying. > [@](#): > > It is ironic how you defend Jefferson. I think it is your subconcious that supports Ron Paul, since Ron Paul leans towards Jefferson over Madison. Upthread you said I hate Madison and Ron Paul. Make up your mind already. Incidentally if everyone subconsciously supports Ron Paul but consciously doesn’t vote for him, will you claim he’s president of the subconscious? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/667 "2010-05-08T18:41:22Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Either this is performance art, or the Paulistas have been taking lessons from the LaRouchies. “Ron Paul: his supporters may not number all that many, but they really, really, really, really, really, really like him. Vote for Ron!” ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/668 "2010-05-08T19:45:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > _On matters of foreign policy._ You’ve said Madison was Jefferson’s puppet, which means Madison “governed” Jefferson on everything. And particularly the first time you presented that quote, you shortened it to make it sounds like the foreign minister (and historians) believe Jefferson took all of his instructions from Madison. This is clearly not what he was saying. > Upthread you said I hate Madison and Ron Paul. Make up your mind already. Incidentally if everyone subconsciously supports Ron Paul but consciously doesn’t vote for him, will you claim he’s president of the subconscious? I already said that Jefferson liked to tinker with his pet projects. Madison let him do that, as long as it did not interfere with his agenda. You are just engaging in word nit-picking. I have already made my point that Madison had the greater influence even when Jefferson was president. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/669 "2010-05-08T19:47:45Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > “Ron Paul: his supporters may not number all that many, but they really, really, really, really, really, really like him. Vote for Ron!” I think you harbor a secret fear of Ron Paul. Ha Ha Ha. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/670 "2010-05-08T19:50:43Z")
I’m imagining, somewhere, a fundamentalist fringe school turning out scholars stewed solely in the old testament and the founding fathers, which comes to shape all of their political philosophy. Such a cunning strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/671 "2010-05-08T19:50:58Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > It is ironic how you defend Jefferson. I think it is your subconcious that supports Ron Paul, since Ron Paul leans towards Jefferson over Madison. Vote Ron Paul: He’s easily manipulated! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/672 "2010-05-08T19:53:57Z")
Just to clarify, which is it? -Madison, being an Illuminatus, learned the secret to immorality and employs advanced Lizard Person shapeshifting technology, and Madison really _is_ the person we think of as “Ron Paul”. But Madison can urinate pure molten gold, so we should vote for Ron. -Madison, being an Illuminatus, learned the secret to immorality and employs advanced Lizard Person shapeshifting technology, and Madison killed the man we think of as “Ron Paul” and took his identity, but it’s cool because Madison is pretty awesome, so we should vote for Ron. -Madison, being an Illuminatus, learned the secret to soul swapping took over the mind and body of the man we think of as “Ron Paul”, but Madison will suck your soul and feed it to a cat if you don’t vote for him, so vote for Ron. -Madison, being an Illuminatus, learned the secret to violating the laws of time and space and merely communicates with Ron Paul accross the ages, via the Æther. As such Ron Paul is really Madison’s puppet, but we should vote for Ron because otherwise Madison will transmit his thoughts to _us_. -Madison had his bloodline carefully guarded, and Ron Paul is his secret descendant. And since you have to keep to your own and not be a Race Traitor, we should vote for Ron as he’s the direct descendant of the the coolest Dead White Male that ever was. Other than Jesus maybe, but Jesus was too stupid to be born in America, so to hell with him. -Madison had his bloodlines carefully guarded, and Ron Paul is actually the genetic reincarnation of Madison, down to his vestigial sixth toes and prehensile tail. So we should vote for Ron because, fuck, the man’s got a freakin’ _tail._ ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/673 "2010-05-08T19:55:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Vote Ron Paul: He’s easily manipulated! Sounds like a lame attack ad. Please don’t quit your day job. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/674 "2010-05-08T19:57:38Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Just to clarify, which is it? > > -Madison, being an Illuminatus, learned the secret to immorality and employs advanced Lizard Person shapeshifting technology, and Madison really _is_ the person we think of as “Ron Paul”. But Madison can urinate pure molten gold, so we should vote for Ron. > > -Madison, being an Illuminatus, learned the secret to immorality and employs advanced Lizard Person shapeshifting technology, and Madison killed the man we think of as “Ron Paul” and took his identity, but it’s cool because Madison is pretty awesome, so we should vote for Ron. > > -Madison, being an Illuminatus, learned the secret to soul swapping took over the mind and body of the man we think of as “Ron Paul”, but Madison will suck your soul and feed it to a cat if you don’t vote for him, so vote for Ron. > > -Madison, being an Illuminatus, learned the secret to violating the laws of time and space and merely communicates with Ron Paul accross the ages, via the Æther. As such Ron Paul is really Madison’s puppet, but we should vote for Ron because otherwise Madison will transmit his thoughts to _us_. > > -Madison had his bloodline carefully guarded, and Ron Paul is his secret descendant. And since you have to keep to your own and not be a Race Traitor, we should vote for Ron as he’s the direct descendant of the the coolest Dead White Male that ever was. Other than Jesus maybe, but Jesus was too stupid to be born in America, so to hell with him. > > -Madison had his bloodlines carefully guarded, and Ron Paul is actually the genetic reincarnation of Madison, down to his vestigial sixth toes and prehensile tail. So we should vote for Ron because, fuck, the man’s got a freakin’ _tail._ Please don’t quit your day job. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/675 "2010-05-08T19:58:38Z")
No, seriously, I think we’re all waiting to hear the reason why you’ve allegedly both been paid and not-paid to talk up Madison and the war of 1812 on the internet in the hopes that it will benefit Paul. “He was awesome, and Paul agrees with him!” is pretty weaksauce, all in all. Especially if you could just point to Paul’s own policies as being awesome. So I’m just trying to puzzle out what the actual connection is. “[Person A] was cool, and [Person B] likes him!” is an endorsement for Person A, not Person B. > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > I think you harbor a secret fear of Ron Paul. Ha Ha Ha. No no no, clowns. I harbor a secret fear of clowns. Jewish clowns are the worst, though. Your psychoanalysis is excellent though. What else can you tell about a person because they won’t vote for Ron Paul? P.S. If you’re Witnessing it might work better if you used a phrase like “Haw! Haw! Haw!” It has an awesome pedigree. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/676 "2010-05-08T20:19:38Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No, seriously, I think we’re all waiting to hear the reason why you’ve allegedly both been paid and not-paid to talk up Madison and the war of 1812 on the internet in the hopes that it will benefit Paul. “He was awesome, and Paul agrees with him!” is pretty weaksauce, all in all. Especially if you could just point to Paul’s own policies as being awesome. So I’m just trying to puzzle out what the actual connection is. “[Person A] was cool, and [Person B] likes him!” is an endorsement for Person A, not Person B. > > No no no, clowns. I harbor a secret fear of clowns. Jewish clowns are the worst, though. Your psychoanalysis is excellent though. What else can you tell about a person because they won’t vote for Ron Paul? > > P.S. If you’re Witnessing it might work better if you used a phrase like “Haw! Haw! Haw!” It has an awesome pedigree. _Advocates for the War of 1812_ now formally endorses Ron Paul for president of the United States of America. Previously, we successfully lobbied to make the _Star Spangled Banner_ our national anthem, and to get Andrew Jackson on the $20 dollar bill. We also support H.R. 992 and hope we can count on your support. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/677 "2010-05-08T20:32:02Z")
Your only 2 success were in 1928 and 1931? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/678 "2010-05-08T20:35:04Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > _Advocates for the War of 1812_ now formally endorses Ron Paul for president of the United States of America. And squirrels like running up trees, give me something that’s _not_ a total non sequitor. To say nothing of the fact that “advocating” for an event that’s 200 years old is nonsensical and that almost nobody, at all, cares what the “Advocates for the War of 1812” endorse any more than they’d care who the “Model Rocketry Club of Lower Cleveland.” endorses. > [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > Previously, we successfully lobbied to make the _Star Spangled Banner_ our national anthem, and to get Andrew Jackson on the $20 dollar bill. Yes yes, much like Jefferson supported Net Neutrality. It was made the anthem in 1931. Somehow I doubt y’all are spry (and spunky!) folks who were old enough to hold political opinions in the 1920’s. Also, along with Ron Paul voting against honoring Rosa Parks and Civil Rights, you probably don’t want to connect him with _Andrew Jackson_ of all people. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/679 "2010-05-08T20:45:15Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > I think you harbor a secret fear of Ron Paul. Ha Ha Ha. Any reasonable man should be scared to death of what a Ron Paul administration would do to this country. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/680 "2010-05-08T20:48:16Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Any reasonable man should be scared to death of what a Ron Paul administration would do to this country. Meh. The only thing we have to fear is… oh shit! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=35)