# The best candidate to challenge Barack Obama in 2012 is Ron Paul **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114 "2010-05-03T03:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/741 "2010-05-10T15:19:56Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > If he [Ron Paul] can also capitalize on the signing of the Magna Carta and the building of the pyramids, he’ll have the dead people’s vote all but sewn up. He’ll do great in Chicago! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/742 "2010-05-10T15:53:18Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > You’re just talking about the newsletters because you support the racist war on drugs. I told you Saturday that this needs to stop. Argue your positions all you want, but do it without the comments that other posters are supporting racism, are afraid of Ron Paul, and so on. This is a formal warning to stop this. If it continues, you will not be posting here very long. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/743 "2010-05-11T20:02:26Z")
> [@ajb867](#): > > Ron who? Oh the guy all the stoners were hoping would be president… No, we were having smoke-in’s for Eugene McCarthy… ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/744 "2010-05-15T21:19:34Z")
Newsflash from the Advocates for the War of 1812! **Regional meeting for War of 1812 commemoration set** The Michigan Commission on the Commemoration of the Bicentennial of the War of 1812 will host a regional planning meeting of several states, Canadian provinces, and numerous interested organizations. On June 18 many of the Great Lakes states and provinces involved with fighting in the “Old Northwest” Territory will get together. Representatives of Parks Canada and the Ontario Ministry of Tourism and Culture will also attend, as will private organizations including the American Sail Training Association, the Perry Group, and the United States Society Daughters of 1812. The regional meeting will be held at the Dossin Maritime Museum on Detroit’s Belle Isle. The following day, a tour of historic sites, ranging from Fort Detroit to Fort Meigs, will be offered to attendees. Phil Porter, commission chair and director of Mackinac State Historic Parks, said “We are very pleased with the attendance and encouraged by the efforts of others, like ourselves, who have been working hard to assure the appropriate commemoration for important historical events.” June 18 is a significant day in the history of the War of 1812. The day commemorates the 198th anniversary of the signing of the declaration of war by President James Madison. The Michigan Commission’s next board meeting is June 28 at the Fort Mackinac Post Hospital on Mackinac Island. The island is the scene of several dramatic events surrounding the War of 1812. [http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2580806](http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2580806) _If you are a Patriot, this is an event you do not want to miss. This was the real fight for independence._ ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/745 "2010-05-15T21:27:11Z")
“Ron Paul: the best thing you can tie him to… happened two centuries ago and he had nothing to do with it. Vote for Ron!” ---
**Author:** ![Galileo\_Galilei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Galileo\_Galilei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo_Galilei)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/746 "2010-05-16T05:16:26Z")
More evidence that Jefferson was Madison’s puppet: **James Madison Rules America!** [http://www.rowmanlittlefield.com/Catalog/SingleBook.shtml?command=Search&db=^DB/CATALOG.db&eqSKUdata=0742599655&thepassedurl=[thepassedurl]](http://www.rowmanlittlefield.com/Catalog/SingleBook.shtml?command=Search&db=%5EDB/CATALOG.db&eqSKUdata=0742599655&thepassedurl=%5Bthepassedurl%5D) > **[James Madison Rules](http://www.epicjourney2008.com/2010/05/james-madison-rules.html)** > > In his forthcoming book, James Madison Rules America , William F. Connelly Jr. shows how the Constitution governs the behavior of politician... ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/747 "2010-05-16T05:43:45Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > Newsflash from the Advocates for the War of 1812! > > **Regional meeting for War of 1812 commemoration set** This has nothing to do with the substance of this debate and it’s basically spam intended to recruit people. It doesn’t belong here. Stop it. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/748 "2010-05-16T05:49:46Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > More evidence that Jefferson was Madison’s puppet: > > **James Madison Rules America!** > [http://www.rowmanlittlefield.com/Catalog/SingleBook.shtml?command=Search&db=^DB/CATALOG.db&eqSKUdata=0742599655&thepassedurl=[thepassedurl]](http://www.rowmanlittlefield.com/Catalog/SingleBook.shtml?command=Search&db=%5EDB/CATALOG.db&eqSKUdata=0742599655&thepassedurl=%5Bthepassedurl%5D) > > [EPIC JOURNEY: James Madison Rules](http://www.epicjourney2008.com/2010/05/james-madison-rules.html) Oddly enough, Jefferson’s name isn’t mentioned in either of those links, but the second link does mention that Ron Paul, along with Don Young, was one of the first Republican congressmen to submit earmark requests after the party voted to have a moratorium on earmarks. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/749 "2010-05-16T07:45:52Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > Oddly enough, Jefferson’s name isn’t mentioned in either of those links, but the second link does mention that Ron Paul, along with Don Young, was one of the first Republican congressmen to submit earmark requests after the party voted to have a moratorium on earmarks. That’s hilarious. What the book and the blogger appear to be saying is that the Constitution ‘governs the behavior of politicians to this day.’ I didn’t realize that was in dispute, but I didn’t know people saw fit to advocate for 200-year-old wars either. In any case, no matter how you slice it the book and the blogger are not saying what **Galileo Galilei** says they are. “The Constitution governs the behavior of politicans” is not even within shouting distance of “Jefferson was Madison’s puppet.” It doesn’t apply to Jefferson in particular - you might as well say every president is James Madison’s puppet if you want to interpret it that way - and it does not say anyone is a puppet. It’s as off base as **Galileo Galilei** ’s interpretation of that quote from the French foreign minister, except that quote did at least involve Jefferson. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/750 "2010-05-16T16:03:12Z")
A heapin’ helpin’ of War of 1812 re-enactors is just what the Ron Paul base (Libertarians, Stormfronters, antivaxers and “health freedom” fighters) needs to expand its appeal to the electorate at large. Suggested title for the official 2012 Ron Paul campaign movie: “The Puppets of Madison County”. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/751 "2010-05-17T15:35:02Z")
> [@Galileo\_Galilei](#): > > Rand Paul is kicking ass among old people in Kentucky. So old people are getting beaten up and their spunk stolen? Monsters! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/752 "2010-05-17T16:11:12Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > So old people are getting beaten up and their spunk stolen? Monsters! First you must ask, are these old people who are being assaulted by Ron Paul “his own kind?” Because if they are not of his own kind (wink wink), then it isn’t nearly as bad as someone who would go around committing atrocities on people like him. This was explained back in posts [491](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12424581#post12424581) and [497](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12424655#post12424655). ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/753 "2010-05-18T14:01:42Z")
You could recast the Matrix: Ron Paul IS Neo James Madison IS Morpheus Dolly Madison IS Trinity Some Jewish banker IS Mr. Smith “The Matrix is a system, Ron Paul. That system is our enemy. But when you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.” Vote for Ron Paul! He’s The One! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/754 "2010-05-18T14:17:57Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Vote for Ron Paul! He’s The One! And he knows _kung fu_. By the way polls do indicate that Rand Paul is going to win the Republican primary in Kentucky today. Old people love him or whatever. It doesn’t translate to good news for Ron Paul in 2012, but it’s the only primary win the family is likely to get, so I guess they should enjoy it. Incidentally there is some evidence that both potential Democratic nominees poll better against Rand Paul than they do against the other Republican candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/755 "2010-05-18T15:38:05Z")
Well, here’s the thing about Rand Paul: he isn’t Ron Paul. Rand is a doctrinaire right winger. His father is not. Rand likes the war in Afghanistan, is against legalizing drugs, wants to ban abortions by constitutional amendment, and so on and so forth. If Rand Paul wins the primary, it would show that Kentucky Republicans are… brace yourselves… _very conservative folks indeed._ (Ba-ba-buuuuuuum!) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/756 "2010-05-18T16:38:13Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, here’s the thing about Rand Paul: he isn’t Ron Paul. Rand is a doctrinaire right winger. His father is not. Rand likes the war in Afghanistan, is against legalizing drugs, wants to ban abortions by constitutional amendment, and so on and so forth. I didn’t know that. So the comparison isn’t just badly flawed, it’s entirely meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Fozz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fozz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fozz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/757 "2010-05-18T16:59:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, here’s the thing about Rand Paul: he isn’t Ron Paul. Rand is a doctrinaire right winger. His father is not. Rand likes the war in Afghanistan, is against legalizing drugs, wants to ban abortions by constitutional amendment, and so on and so forth. > If Rand Paul wins the primary, it would show that Kentucky Republicans are… brace yourselves… _very conservative folks indeed._ (Ba-ba-buuuuuuum!) Rand does not “like” the war in Afghanistan. And how do you know that he is against legalizing drugs? Any reliable source is welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/758 "2010-05-18T17:25:28Z")
> [@Fozz](#): > > And how do you know that he is against legalizing drugs? Any reliable source is welcome. [Says here in black and white: “I do not support eliminating all federal laws or penalties on marijuana.”](http://www.randpaul2010.com/2010/02/rand-responds-to-attacks/) He says other drug laws should be handled on a state level and says he supports treatment for addicts. He also says there that he would have voted in favor of a war resolution regarding Afghanistan but I don’t know how he feels about it today. [And he says he would vote for a Constitutional Amendment banning abortion and for any other law that bans or reduces abortions.](http://www.randpaul2010.com/issues/a-g/abortion-2/) Further he says he would support a law 'restricting federal courts from hearing cases like _Roe v. Wade_, which I suspect would be unconstitutional. (Not that a law like that would ever get passed; Congress threatens to pass them when the Supreme Court tickets them off but they never happen.) Ron Paul is againstt the war on drugs. He’s also pro-life but doesn’t think the federal government has the power to ban abortion. His site includes topics like “Afghanistan is a no-win situation” and “Ron Paul: End the War in Afghanistan NOW!” Whether his son feels the same way I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/759 "2010-05-18T17:26:23Z")
> [@Fozz](#): > > Rand does not “like” the war in Afghanistan. And how do you know that he is against legalizing drugs? Any reliable source is welcome. I should have said “supports the war in Afghanistan,” but I was being flippant. [Link.](http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Gene_Healy/Healy-Rand-Paul-victory-in-Kentucky-could-be-best-outcome-for-GOP-94028739.html) > [@](#): > > Rand has distanced himself from his father’s foreign-policy noninterventionism, insisting he’s for the war in Afghanistan and against rapid withdrawal from Iraq. That hasn’t stopped Trey the Gray’s backers from trying to make the campaign a referendum on Rand’s allegedly “strange ideas.” And as of last year, Rand Paul supported declaring war on Afghanistan, and then figuring out what the mission is. Talk about supporting the war! [Link.](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/11/12/qa-with-rand-paul-shaking-up-the-kentucky-senate-race/) > [@](#): > > Washington Wire: What should happen in Afghanistan? > Paul: I support a declaration of war in Afghanistan. We have to now determine what our mission is. It’s become somewhat murky. On the issue of drug legalization, the Rand Paul campaign called his opponent’s claim that RP supports drug legalization, abortion, and opposes defense as “a smear campaign,” “lies,” and “dirty tricks.” [Link.](http://www.randpaul2010.com/2010/02/grayson-lies-about-rand-again/) Can you find any citations that he wants to withdraw troops from Afghanistan and supports drug legalization? ---
**Author:** ![Fozz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fozz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fozz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/760 "2010-05-18T18:39:28Z")
On Rand Paul’s views on social issues and even foreign policy, I think it is best to wait a little while until the general election campaign, to see if he changes his tone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=39)