# The best candidate to challenge Barack Obama in 2012 is Ron Paul **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114 "2010-05-03T03:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/761 "2010-05-18T19:00:19Z")
Are you saying he is lying about his views to get elected? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/762 "2010-05-18T19:11:17Z")
> [@Fozz](#): > > On Rand Paul’s views on social issues and even foreign policy, I think it is best to wait a little while until the general election campaign, to see if he changes his tone. “Rand Paul is a career doctor, not a politician.” In any case those are not the kind of views you change when you move to a general election. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/763 "2010-05-18T19:11:27Z")
> [@Fozz](#): > > On Rand Paul’s views on social issues and even foreign policy, I think it is best to wait a little while until the general election campaign, to see if he changes his tone. I guess when you said “Any reliable source is welcome” you meant “I’ll promptly disregard information from any source, no matter how reliable, if it conflicts with my opinion of what that other guy’s opinion is.” Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/764 "2010-05-18T19:32:57Z")
I, for one, welcome Rand Paul changing his view on issues for the general election. If he wants to let people in Kentucky know he’s for separation of church and state, immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan, for legalization of drugs and prostitution, and doesn’t think that the Federal government should make laws regarding abortion, I would line up to contribute to his campaign so he can run those ads on TV every night. Dan Mongiardo (or whatever his name is), the likely Democratic opponent, would probably ask people to contribute to Rand’s campaign instead of his. The more of this libertarian nonsense the people can hear, the more likely it is that Dr. Dan can walk to victory in November. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/765 "2010-05-18T19:37:22Z")
If Rand can lie about his views and win, Ron can lie about his views and win! Although if Ron were going to lie about his views you’d think he would pretend to believe in something more popular. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/766 "2010-05-18T19:56:15Z")
The art of political persuasion: > [@](#): > > [Deputies called to remove campaign workers](http://www.kentucky.com/2010/05/18/1269543/deputies-called-to-remove-campaign.html) > > LOUISVILLE, Ky. – State and local officials say backers of Republican U.S. Senate candidate Rand Paul have been removed by sheriff’s deputies from an eastern Kentucky polling place after complaints that they were harassing voters… ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/767 "2010-05-18T20:02:45Z")
> [@Fozz](#): > > On Rand Paul’s views on social issues and even foreign policy, I think it is best to wait a little while until the general election campaign, to see if he changes his tone. I’m not out to defend either Paul, nor their acolytes, but it should be noted that **Fozz** used the phrase “changes his tone”, not “changes his view”. Perhaps that’s a distinction without a difference practically speaking, but to be fair… ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/768 "2010-05-18T20:55:40Z")
> [@Fozz](#): > > On Rand Paul’s views on social issues and even foreign policy, I think it is best to wait a little while until the general election campaign, to see if he changes his tone. Oh, I don’t think there’s any doubt about it. His commercials trumpet the fact that he’s been endorsed by Sarah Palin, which isn’t going to do much to help him draw in the center. His opponent, Trey Grayson, has commercials bragging that he’s been endorsed by the likes of Rick Santorum and Dick Cheney, whose approval rating the last time I checked is slightly better than that of the Ebola virus. That’s how ridiculous this primary is–they’re competing for the narrow swath of people who don’t find Dick Cheney to be odious. ---
**Author:** ![Fozz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fozz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fozz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/769 "2010-05-18T21:49:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If Rand can lie about his views and win, Ron can lie about his views and win! Although if Ron were going to lie about his views you’d think he would pretend to believe in something more popular. Except Rand isn’t lying about his views. Changing tone != changing position. Grayson is the one that has been lying, not Rand. ---
**Author:** ![Fozz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fozz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fozz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/770 "2010-05-18T21:51:12Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Oh, I don’t think there’s any doubt about it. His commercials trumpet the fact that he’s been endorsed by Sarah Palin, which isn’t going to do much to help him draw in the center. > > His opponent, Trey Grayson, has commercials bragging that he’s been endorsed by the likes of Rick Santorum and Dick Cheney, whose approval rating the last time I checked is slightly better than that of the Ebola virus. > > That’s how ridiculous this primary is–they’re competing for the narrow swath of people who don’t find Dick Cheney to be odious. Rand Paul is definitely not as hawkish on foreign policy as Palin. He trumps up her endorsement because she is very popular in Kentucky, which is a socially conservative state. I am not a fan of Palin, but I think her endorsement of Rand was helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Fozz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fozz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fozz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/771 "2010-05-18T21:52:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I, for one, welcome Rand Paul changing his view on issues for the general election. If he wants to let people in Kentucky know he’s for separation of church and state, immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan, for legalization of drugs and prostitution, and doesn’t think that the Federal government should make laws regarding abortion, I would line up to contribute to his campaign so he can run those ads on TV every night. > > Dan Mongiardo (or whatever his name is), the likely Democratic opponent, would probably ask people to contribute to Rand’s campaign instead of his. The more of this libertarian nonsense the people can hear, the more likely it is that Dr. Dan can walk to victory in November. Rand Paul is not stupid, or else he would have never beaten his establishment opponent. And I personally think Conway is more likely to be Rand’s Democrat opponent, though that remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Fozz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fozz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fozz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/772 "2010-05-18T21:58:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I should have said “supports the war in Afghanistan,” but I was being flippant. > [Link.](http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Gene_Healy/Healy-Rand-Paul-victory-in-Kentucky-could-be-best-outcome-for-GOP-94028739.html) > > And as of last year, Rand Paul supported declaring war on Afghanistan, and then figuring out what the mission is. Talk about supporting the war! > [Link.](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/11/12/qa-with-rand-paul-shaking-up-the-kentucky-senate-race/) > > On the issue of drug legalization, the Rand Paul campaign called his opponent’s claim that RP supports drug legalization, abortion, and opposes defense as “a smear campaign,” “lies,” and “dirty tricks.” [Link.](http://www.randpaul2010.com/2010/02/grayson-lies-about-rand-again/) > > Can you find any citations that he wants to withdraw troops from Afghanistan and supports drug legalization? Rand Paul believes that the Commander in Chief, not Congress, should decide troop levels in any war. And on drugs, he favors a local/state approach. ---
**Author:** ![Fozz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fozz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fozz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/773 "2010-05-18T22:01:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I, for one, welcome Rand Paul changing his view on issues for the general election. If he wants to let people in Kentucky know he’s for separation of church and state, immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan, for legalization of drugs and prostitution, and doesn’t think that the Federal government should make laws regarding abortion, I would line up to contribute to his campaign so he can run those ads on TV every night. > > Dan Mongiardo (or whatever his name is), the likely Democratic opponent, would probably ask people to contribute to Rand’s campaign instead of his. The more of this libertarian nonsense the people can hear, the more likely it is that Dr. Dan can walk to victory in November. By the way every general election poll shows that Rand Paul will beat Mongiardo, so I don’t know where you get this idea that Mongiardo will “walk to victory in November”. ---
**Author:** ![Fozz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fozz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fozz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/774 "2010-05-18T22:03:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “Rand Paul is a career doctor, not a politician.” In any case those are not the kind of views you change when you move to a general election. He won’t “change” his views, but if he wants Democrat votes, he may talk more about his opposition to the Patriot Act, opposition to torture, or his opposition to federal drug laws (if he is against them). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/775 "2010-05-18T22:36:29Z")
> [@Fozz](#): > > He won’t “change” his views, but if he wants Democrat votes, he may talk more about his opposition to the Patriot Act, opposition to torture, or his opposition to federal drug laws (if he is against them). That’s nice. He’s still against removing federal laws on marijuana and he favors a Constitutional amendment banning abortion. That’s quite a difference from his father, wouldn’t you say? That was the original point: that they have different positions on some issues, so even if he is successful it says nothing about his father’s chances. ---
**Author:** ![Fozz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fozz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fozz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/776 "2010-05-18T22:44:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s nice. He’s still against removing federal laws on marijuana and he favors a Constitutional amendment banning abortion. That’s quite a difference from his father, wouldn’t you say? That was the original point: that they have different positions on some issues, so even if he is successful it says nothing about his father’s chances. I definitely think if Rand wins, it will improve RP’s chances in 2012, though I don’t think he has much of a chance of getting nominated either way. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/777 "2010-05-18T22:47:40Z")
Can you explain how it helps? It seems to me that if Rand has to say “I am not my father” to get elected and Kentucky is not exactly Ohio, it doesn’t go Ron any good. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/778 "2010-05-19T01:57:58Z")
> [@Fozz](#): > > By the way every general election poll shows that Rand Paul will beat Mongiardo, so I don’t know where you get this idea that Mongiardo will “walk to victory in November”. Try reading what I said one more time. If Rand Paul runs on Ron Paul’s platform of drug legalization and isolationism, he’ll be crushed in Kentucky. ---
**Author:** ![Fozz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fozz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fozz)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/779 "2010-05-20T01:11:13Z")
[http://trueslant.com/zaidjilani/2010/05/18/why-this-true-progressive-admires-a-true-conservative-like-rand-paul/](http://trueslant.com/zaidjilani/2010/05/18/why-this-true-progressive-admires-a-true-conservative-like-rand-paul/) > **[Who's Afraid of Rand Paul?](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/whos-afraid-of-rand-paul_b_581296)** > > With the Democrats trusting our well-being to the likes of Lawrence Summers and Timothy Geithner, would it not be good to have at least one Republican senator questioning the Washington spending spree? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/780 "2010-05-20T02:27:19Z")
Stop the presses! Two obscure bloggers like Rand Paul! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=40)