# The best candidate to challenge Barack Obama in 2012 is Ron Paul **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114 "2010-05-03T03:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![jrodefeld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jrodefeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrodefeld)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/81 "2010-05-03T19:09:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It looks that way right now, I agree. > Not in a million years. The bottom line is this: Paul’s moment already came and went. He generated some buzz in 2008 but never had a shot at winning anything of consequence because most of his views are nowhere close to the public’s. By now the general paranoia that characterized his supporters has filtered into the Tea Party, so other candidates are now competing for it, and they are more appealing than he is and have more money. Another problem is that he’s nuts. I like to cite his immigration views as my example on that point. He’s nuts? Your going to have to do more to back that statement up. Actually, immigration is the only area where I disagree somewhat with Ron Paul, but I certainly don’t consider his position “nuts”. In fact he has said over and over that immigrants are not really the problem. They are scapegoated due to our own weak economy. If we get our house in order we would have no trouble having a very generous immigration policy. Theres nothing crazy about that. We don’t have to agree with whether he could win or be a contender. But his popularity has increased way beyond what was seen in 2008. It hasn’t stopped. He has a grassroots army. And the Tea Party people (at least some of them) would support him. The fact is very few people were thinking about economic issues during 2007-2008. Now they are focused on Wall Street, the Federal Reserve, and fiscal policy. His views have gone mainstream in many ways. Nobody attacks him in the media anymore, and he is widely acknowledged as having been right. Why don’t you tell me a little more about why he is “nuts”? ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/82 "2010-05-03T19:12:58Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > You should stop using labels like liberal and conservative. There is only Truth and Lies. The Truth is, more people voted for Andrew Jackson than have voted for Ron Paul in a presidential election. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/83 "2010-05-03T19:19:05Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > He’s nuts? Your going to have to do more to back that statement up. You know I’ve done this before, right? [From his web site, on border security:](http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/border-security/) > [@](#): > > “If these policies are not reversed, the future is grim. A third-world style “North American Union” is not out of the question and it would be a fascist elite’s dream come true.” [From an interview with Lou Dobbs, on the nonexistent North American Superhighway:](http://hempsavetheworld.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/ron-paul-on-lou-dobbs-the-north-american-union-super-highway/) > [@](#): > > “We don’t know exactly what the long-term motivation or the plan is. Is this part of the North American Union? Or is this just to enhance travel in Texas? And I suspect it’s a lot more, and it’s very costly. It involves millions of acres that may be taken under eminent domain. And besides that, everybody I’ve run into in the Texas – the people here don’t want it.” There are issues I agree with Paul, and you, about. But this is crazy talk. There is no North American Union on the way. There is not going to be an Amero. Or a Superhighway. It’s paranoia. > [@](#): > > But his popularity has increased way beyond what was seen in 2008. It hasn’t stopped. He has a grassroots army. I think you’re kidding yourself on this one. He had a small but enthusiastic base of support in 2008. Some of them are probably still with him, but that was his moment in the sun. Now other candidates are trying to peel off those voters and tap into larger waves of national discontent. Those aren’t just Paul voters anymore. > [@](#): > > And the Tea Party people (at least some of them) would support him. But most wouldn’t. There are a lot of Christian conservatives in there, and I don’t think he has the credentials. > [@](#): > > Nobody attacks him in the media anymore That’s because they’re not paying attention to him anymore. Nobody’s attacking Tom Tancredo or Mike Gravel either. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/84 "2010-05-03T19:20:08Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I don’t think Palin has every advocated switching to the gold standard. That would require her to know that “gold standard” were two words that when put together conveyed meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/85 "2010-05-03T19:21:01Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Ron Paul does NOT favor abolishing Medicare and Social Security. He favors phasing them out over a period of time. You can put lipstick on a pig, but he has said he wants to “abolish” Social Security. > [@](#): > > Q: Are you still in favor of abolishing Social Security? > > A: Yes, but not overnight. . . . That’s from the 2008 Republican debate at Boca Raton. > [@](#): > > Many liberals care about Civil Liberties and privacy. . . Ron Paul supports civil liberties. . . . And there are many liberals who are angry that Obama has expanded the war in Afghanistan and is promoting propaganda against Iran. I have already stated why liberals will not support Ron Paul because of his social views. If a liberal has been alienated by Obama for not being liberal enough, then they will look at Ron Paul and see something much, much, MUCH worse. The number of liberals who are going to say, “I think I want to support someone who wants to undo Social Security, health care, and education in order to legalize drugs and put us on the gold standard” is near zero. I mean, seriously, get real. > [@](#): > > I don’t think you really understand what he stands for. I’ve lived in DC for quite some time and I’m probably more familiar with him than most of his followers. The only difference here is that you seem to have been bitten by some kind of cult of personality. > [@](#): > > Seriously. I don’t actually think Obama is that intelligent. Former president of the Harvard Law Review isn’t intelligent? If you can’t admit that Obama is a smart guy, I’m not sure how I can take your other views seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/86 "2010-05-03T19:24:03Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Y > Former president of the Harvard Law Review isn’t intelligent? If you can’t admit that Obama is a smart guy, I’m not sure how I can take your other views seriously. Well, intellegent or not, I hear he’s fleet-footed ---
**Author:** ![jrodefeld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jrodefeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrodefeld)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/87 "2010-05-03T19:27:39Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Unfortunately, Washington is harsh to intelligent men like Ron Paul. The American public has shown that it prefers image over substance-which is why we have a our present “teleprompter” president. > Of course, if things continue this bad, Paul might have a chance. > I totally agree, it is high time to end the “American Empire”-it is bankrupting us, and has delayed important reforms. Of course, the military-industrial complex will fight tooth and nail to prevent this-which is why I expect Obama will launch a new war against Iran, sometime next year. Exactly right. My view is that if things get bad enough (they are well on their way) there will be a demand for substance over style. If there is a complete economic collapse and people start waking up we could see someone like Ron Paul get elected. I feel that 2012 will be unlike any other election year, thats why there is a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![jrodefeld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jrodefeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrodefeld)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/88 "2010-05-03T19:33:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think we’re officially through the looking glass on this one. From about 2003 to 2008, liberals kept saying (wrongly) that Bush was going to invade Iran because of his aggressive foreign policy, war on terror, etc. And now a few conservatives are saying Obama (who is in the middle of pulling soldiers out of Iraq) is going to invade Iran because he’s trying to negotiate international sanctions against their nuclear program. Okay, sanctions are going to kill many many innocent people in Iran. Sanctions are the first step to war. We had sanctions on Iraq throughout the 90s which lead to the invasion in 2003. Over a million Iraqi women and children died due to those sanctions. History is repeating itself. Why on earth can’t Iran have a nuclear weapon? They are surrounded by nuclear capable nations. Plus they have never been found to be in violation of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. What gives us the authority to put sanctions on a nation that has done nothing wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/89 "2010-05-03T19:35:05Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > If there is a complete economic collapse and people start waking up we could see someone like Ron Paul get elected. We did not have complete economic collapse in the Great Depression, and we are in considerable better shape now. By your own calculation, the likelihood of Ron Paul getting elected is exceedingly remote. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/90 "2010-05-03T19:35:46Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Well, intellegent or not, I hear he’s fleet-footed And probably more toward the “semi-criminal” element in DC. You know, with our so-called justice system. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/91 "2010-05-03T19:35:54Z")
the OP made exactly one important, undeniable point: the Republican field for 2012 looks VERY weak. Barack Obama SHOULD be extremely vulnerable, but I don’t see a single likely candidate who’d be favored to beat him. If Obama is facing a ticket of Mitt Romney and Tim Pawlenty (not unlikely), well, just who’s supposed to get excited about that? But Ron Paul is no solution. He has ZERO chance of winning the GOP nomination. And the more people learn about him, the less they’ll like him. I don’t say Paul himself is a racist or anti-semite, but there’s no doubt that a HUGE percentage of his followers are, and that doesn’t seem to bother him. He’s a loony fringe candidate on a wide varierty of issues, and that will only become more apparent if he ever gets the media exposure his followers think he deserves. I think Obama is looking at the same situation Bill Clinton was in around 1994. His policies are unpopular, and that will cost his party dearly in Congress… but Obama himself will probably be re-elected handily, because his opponent is likely to be as stiff and unsellable as Bob Dole. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/92 "2010-05-03T19:40:57Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Okay, sanctions are going to kill many many innocent people in Iran. Sanctions are the first step to war. We had sanctions on Iraq throughout the 90s which lead to the invasion in 2003. Over a million Iraqi women and children died due to those sanctions. History is repeating itself. Why on earth can’t Iran have a nuclear weapon? They are surrounded by nuclear capable nations. Plus they have never been found to be in violation of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. What gives us the authority to put sanctions on a nation that has done nothing wrong? The US has had sanctions against Iran for thirty years. If they’re leading us to war, they’re not doing so very quickly. And the global prohibition against buying Iraqi oil is considerably harsher then anything thats been inflicted or is likely to be inflicted on Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/93 "2010-05-03T19:51:25Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Okay, sanctions are going to kill many many innocent people in Iran. Without knowing what’s being discussed, I don’t think you can say that. Iran is not a poor country and its infrastructure was not just destroyed by wars the way Iraq’s was 20 years ago. > [@](#): > > Sanctions are the first step to war. No, they are not. The US has had (pointless) sanctions on Cuba for 50 years and there has been no war with Cuba. The US has had sanctions on Iran for 30 yeasr and there’s been no war with Iran. Sanctions helped end apartheid in South Africa without a war. > [@](#): > > We had sanctions on Iraq throughout the 90s which lead to the invasion in 2003. That’s ridiculous and completely wrong. There was a war against Iraq in 1991, and that’s what led to the sanctions. The sanctions were supposed to keep the Iraqi from getting weapons or from murdering large numbers of Kurds and Sunnis. And they worked well despite all the corruption in the oil for food program. And the sanctions did not lead to the invasion in 2003. What caused the war in 2003 was George W. Bush getting elected and getting an opportunity to invade a country he wanted to take a shot at. > [@](#): > > Over a million Iraqi women and children died due to those sanctions. That’s not true, and it’s not going to be true no matter how many times you say it. [That statistic was debunked years ago.](http://reason.com/archives/2002/03/01/the-politics-of-dead-children) The real numbers are tragic but nowhere close to “over a million.” > [@](#): > > Why on earth can’t Iran have a nuclear weapon? The extensive terrorist ties don’t give you any pause? > [@](#): > > They are surrounded by nuclear capable nations. If you count sharing a border with Pakistan and being somewhat near Israel as surrounded, yes. And you could count Russia if you wanted, but Russia seems to get along with Iran just fine. > [@](#): > > Plus they have never been found to be in violation of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. What would that prove? North Korea isn’t in violation either - they dropped out of the treaty when they didn’t feel like abiding by it anymore. > [@](#): > > What gives us the authority to put sanctions on a nation that has done nothing wrong? Define “nothing wrong.” Because with Iran, a repressive theocracy with ties to Islamic fundamenalism, that’s going to be a stretch. And I’m not sure who you think needs to confer that authority. If the UN is convinced it’s a bad idea for Iran to have nuclear weapons and that sanctions will help, they’ll do it. If not, they won’t. I’m not sure about the tactic and I am not sure anything can be done to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons in a couple of years, but to act all shocked about it and assert that sanctions will lead to mass deaths and was is misguided. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/94 "2010-05-03T19:51:35Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The US has had sanctions against Iran for thirty years. If they’re leading us to war, they’re not doing so very quickly. It took Ron Paul 35 years to be right about how leaving the gold standard would cause economic problems in the country. So, on that schedule, we should probably go to war with Iran in five years. Right in the middle of Ron Paul’s first term. (snicker) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/95 "2010-05-03T19:55:27Z")
In any case, and on top of all that stuff, a war against Iran is militarily and economically unfeasible. And thank goodness for that, or Bush would have done it when he had the chance. There’s no way Obama is going to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/96 "2010-05-03T19:55:32Z")
Hey, **jrodefeld** , be intellectually honest (as you implore others to do), and address the issue of Ron Paul’s numerous racist statements, O.K.? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/97 "2010-05-03T19:55:42Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Well, intellegent or not, I hear he’s fleet-footed And articulate! ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/98 "2010-05-03T19:59:44Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > You think the current monetary system led first by Greenspan and then by Bernanke, has been successful? Eh, post Gold Standard is the system globally since effectively the disaster of the Great Depression, which sane economists tie in no small part to that standard. > [@](#): > > Look at unemployment, Yup, right straight, looks far better than an adjustment required under a Gold Standard (and the US is doing damned sight better than many others). > [@](#): > > look at the depreciation in the standard of living, Over the time period the gold standard was relegated to its rightful place in the dustbin of superstitious ideas, global standards of living have sky-rocketed. So yes, thanks again for confirming the point. Although to be fair this is doubtless only in part to the abandonment of the primitive superstition relative to “shiny metallic ores” as some mystical totem of exchange value. > [@](#): > > the dwindling middle class, US argument, shrug. Can’t speak to the US on that, doubtless though has fuck all to do with being on Gold Standard (wager you saw your greatest expansion of Middle Class post gold standard). > [@](#): > > and the growing gap between rich and poor. Ditto > [@](#): > > Look at the deficit and national debt. Best I can say about this is that relative to the USA, this is pure post-hoc ergo prompter hoc fallacy as I can assure you, on gold standard European governments demonstrated great skill in running up great skill in running up vast amounts of national debt to the point of default. Basically, fuck all to do with anything. > [@](#): > > This is where Keynesian economics has lead us. Eh? Well that makes no sense. > [@](#): > > Believe me, if and when we experience hyperinflation and the destruction of the dollar, you will think back and say to yourself, “you know, maybe we should have backed the dollar with something of value, maybe there was some logic there.” No actually one is more likely to say, “Well as in the vast long experience of human economic experience with monetary standards, nothing resists bad habits” > [@](#): > > Why not explain why the Austrian economists like Mises and Hayek predicted the Great Depression in the 20s when nobody else did. And why did Ron Paul predict this crisis years before anybody else? Much better, you explain where you got this entirely peculiar idea - on both fronts… > [@](#): > > Ron Paul is a fucking modern day Nostradamus. Ohhhhhhhh… ---
**Author:** ![jrodefeld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jrodefeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrodefeld)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/99 "2010-05-03T20:02:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, the perfect Republican to go up against Barack Obama is someone with a history of posting bigoted comments in his wing-nut newsletter: > > “If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be.” > > “Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,’ I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.” Okay, pull out the one smear that is always used against Ron Paul (given his spotless record over thirty years). He didn’t write those comments. He was away from politics for a decade and lent his name to a newsletter that hired and fired people he never met. His only wrongdoing was not paying closer attention to what was going on. So, THAT IS NOT WHAT RON PAUL THINKS! He has never said anything remotely like that. This is a ridiculous smear that won’t tarnish his pristine legacy. Instead of pulling out long resolved guilt by association smears, stick to the issues. > [@](#): > > Yeah, right. Ron Paul has support from African-Americans in the same way Stephen Colbert has a Black friend. Oops, wrong picture – see this one too. ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/6Eib2di9bq4/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/6Eib2di9bq4?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/P1CLPhz0DHM/maxresdefault.jpg "Tea Party Racism??") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1CLPhz0DHM) [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UE9jLCUu010/hqdefault.jpg "Prodigy Of Mobb Deep Speaks On Ron Paul And Obama") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE9jLCUu010) [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Sgveu4UNySI/hqdefault.jpg "BLACKS supports Ron Paul more than Obama") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgveu4UNySI) [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8TJ9ZITd2rs/hqdefault.jpg "Ron Paul-Support From Young Black Males") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TJ9ZITd2rs) [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2TQ2EXMn5YU/hqdefault.jpg "RON PAUL and BLACK FOLKS UNFAIR SYSTEM") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TQ2EXMn5YU) [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MKKik8DVOsM/hqdefault.jpg "President of Hip Hop Warms up to Ron Paul !") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKKik8DVOsM) Whether you choose to believe it our not, Ron Paul and the libertarian message has a lot of black supporters. Black people are abandoning Barack Obama as they realize that he is simply kowtowing to the the white power stucture. Black people were hyped up about the first black president and are realizing that he is just like all the others. Nothing has changed for the betterment of African Americans in this country. In fact, unemployment has dis proportionally affected minorities. The POLICIES that Ron Paul advocates would help poor Blacks and Latinos much more than the policies of Obama or the Democrats. > [@](#): > > The idea that liberals are going to support a guy who wants to dismantle Social Security, Medicaid, the Department of Education is just laughable. He says abortion is murder. He encourages school prayer. He opposes stem cell research. He wants to repeal the 16th Amendment to eliminate income taxes. He supports the Defense of Marriage Act in opposition to same-sex marriages, and voted to ban gay adoptions of children in DC. He encourages school prayer and wants to limit judicial review of the issue. Some of this is completely bullshit. Ron Paul doesn’t oppose Stem Cell research. He may oppose federal funding (he opposes federal funding for a lot of things). He has said over and over that the State shouldn’t be involved in marriage at all. Also, he does oppose abortion, but he feels the federal government should neither oppose nor support abortion (this is actually the Constitutional position). Whether liberal will support him is an open question. If they learn the truth about the Federal Reserve learn some economics, they certainly will. He is on the side of truth. Why don’t you spend a little time, read some of his books and understand the issues a little better? > [@](#): > > Oh yeah, and he doesn’t have the balls to tell 9/11 Truthers to go blow themselves. Instead he feeds them nonsense like, the government always lies about things like the Kennedy assassination, so we better investigate who was responsible for 9/11 one more time. Yeah, “nonsense” like the government lied about the Kennedy assassination (they did). There were also cover-ups regarding 9/11, certain people were protected and nobody was prosecuted. There are no conclusions or evidence of an inside job, but considering how critical an event 9/11 was, why not open up the investigation again? We should always be able to review issues like this, even the Kennedy Assassination. By keeping them secret it feeds into the Conspiracy theories. If there is nothing to them, why not allow independent investigations into 9/11 to disprove all of the conspiracy theories out there and put the issue to rest? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/100 "2010-05-03T20:03:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Why on earth can’t Iran have a nuclear weapon? > > The extensive terrorist ties don’t give you any pause? Well, in my case, I’ve got to say “No”. I see no reason to assume that Iraq would any more hand over a nuke to their pet terrorists than we or the Soviets did to our pet terrorists. Nations just don’t hand over that sort of thing to loose cannons like terrorists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=6)