# The best candidate to challenge Barack Obama in 2012 is Ron Paul **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114 "2010-05-03T03:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/161 "2010-05-04T00:19:13Z")
Interesting that among the the Google links for this thread is one for Libertarian Apparel. In addition to t-shirts proclaiming “Ron Paul 2012”, “Ron Paul Revolution” and “Ron Paul Is Cool”, you can find goodies like [this](http://www.libertarianapparel.com/products/Bilderberg-Puppets.html). It’s that ol’ “guilt by association” thing. Apart from my not wanting anything to do with a candidate who embraces isolationism, blames the U.S. for Islamic terrorism and wants to end Social Security and Medicare, I do not want to be associated with the conspiracy freaks, racists, alt med devotees and antivaxers that form a large chunk of Paul’s core support. I’m picky that way. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/162 "2010-05-04T00:19:39Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > No, he had one donation from someone associated with Stormfront. Thats it. Wrong again. [ > [@](#): > > There is more. The Texas-based Lone Star Times October 25 publicly requested a response to questions about whether the Paul campaign would repudiate and reject a $500 donation from white supremacist [Stormfront.org](http://Stormfront.org) founder Don Black and end the Stormfront website fundraising for Paul. The Times article lit up the conservative blogosphere for the next week. Paul supporters packed internet comment boards alternately denouncing or excusing the charges. Most politicians are quick to distance themselves from such disreputable donations when they are discovered. Not Paul. > > Daniel Siederaski of the Jewish Telegraph Agency tried to get an interview with Paul, calling him repeatedly but not receiving any return calls. Wrote Siederaski November 9: “Ron Paul will take money from Nazis. But he won’t take telephone calls from Jews.” [Update] Finally on November 13 the Paul campaign responded. In a short interview JTA quotes Jim Perry, head of Jews for Paul describing his work on the Paul campaign along side a self-described white supremacist which Perry says he has reformed. > > Racist ties exposed in the Times article go far beyond a single donation. Just below links to information about the “BOK KKK Ohio State Meeting”, and the “BOK KKK Pennsylvania State Meeting”, [Stormfront.org](http://Stormfront.org) website announced: “Ron Paul for President” and “Countdown to the 5th of November”. The links take readers directly to a Ron Paul fundraising site from which they can click into the official Ron Paul 2008 donation page on the official campaign site. Like many white supremacists, Stormfront has ties to white prison gangs. > > Finally on October 30 Paul’s campaign came back with a non-response. In a phone interview with the Lone Star Times, Ron Paul national communications director Jesse Benton was non-committal about removing the donations link from [Stormfront.org](http://Stormfront.org). After a week of internet controversy, the best Benton could come up with is: > \* > “We hadn’t thought of these options but I’ll bring up these ideas with the campaign director. Blocking the IP address sounds like a simple and practical step that could be taken. I doubt there is anything we can do legally. Tracking donations that came from Stormfront’s site sounds more complicated. I’m concerned about setting a precedent for the campaign having to screen and vet everyone who makes a donation. It is important to keep in mind is (sic) that we didn’t solicit this support, and we aren’t interested in spending al of our time and resources focused on this issue. We want to focus on Dr. Paul’s positive agenda for freedom.”\* > > Perhaps frustrated by the weasel words, Lone Star Times asked Benton: “Bottom line- Will the Ron Paul campaign be rejecting the $500 contribution made by neo-Nazi Don Black?” > > Benton’s response: > \* > “At this time, I cannot say that we will be rejecting Mr. Black’s contribution, but I will bring the matter to the attention of our campaign director again, and expect some sort of decision to be made in coming days.”\* ]([http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the\_ron\_paul\_campaign\_and\_its.html](http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaign_and_its.html)) > [@jrodefeld](#): > > He did repudiate it. Cite. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/163 "2010-05-04T00:20:46Z")
The whole Amero/NA Union/NAFTA Superhighway conspiracy theory has always struck me as being one of the wackiest out there. Not because closer political ties, a unified currency, or enhanced transportation infrastructure are so ridiculous, but because they aren’t ridiculous at all. If a political faction wanted to build a North American analogue to the EU, they’d campaign for the ideas publicly. After all, these are democratic countries. How the heck are you going to enact such a thing without the support of the people? Anyways, the NAFTA superhighway already exists. It’s called, variously, I-35, I-40, I-65, I-75, and the 401. ---
**Author:** ![jrodefeld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jrodefeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrodefeld)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/164 "2010-05-04T00:24:12Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Well, if you think it should be something other than the gold standard backing US currency, then what? Nickle? Iron? Oil? Some other commodity? A basket of commodities? And under what circumstances could you demand your “basket” instead of the bank note? What you are doing is asking a sovereign government for collateral. Okay. Full collateral, partial collateral? When a run is made on that collateral, and the government has all the paper and coins, then what are people to use for money? > > How about backing currency with “the full faith and credit of the government of the United States of America?” Faith. It’s worked for 40 years, and looks like it will continue to work in the future as long as more money isn’t added to the system (printed is too restrictive) to the point where inflation reduces the value paid. That will require discipline and work, but less than putting a system into place where the money is backed by commodities. If there is a run on the “full faith and credit” the market does not become glutted with anything other than dollars as people turn to other currencies. Remember that as a practical matter we are responsible to all 300 million people living in the country. We can’t have a basket of commodities that protects all of them. Gold, or Rottweilers or Guns, or Butter will only protect those who hold those commodities, not the other people who the scarcity will leave out in the cold, which will be 95 percent of us, regardless of which commodity or commodities we use. The only thing we do have a sufficient supply of is dollars (or other fiat currency), either in printed, minted or virtual form. And everybody agrees on its use. > > Any banknote, check, or traded commodity is based on liquidity: that it will be widely honored. Hoarding gold does not ensure that it will be honored. Between 1933 and 1972 US currency was backed by gold, but those claims could not legally be honored. It was a fiction. > > Yes, money is a fiction. But it is a fiction that makes our modern economy work in a fashion superior to all past economies. It is not without risk, but gold has risks too, as do all other commodities combinations. Fiat currency has risks that occur less frequently and are smaller when they occur. Those risks can be reduced to the extent that government will effectively regulate markets. As anathema as regulated markets are to libtards, regulated markets are far more profitable for far more people than unregulated markets, which are where the little guy gets fleeced by the big guy with insider information. That happened regularly and legally before regulation. When regulation is lax, it happens a lot less. > > In summary, gold standards are for people who expect a collapse of civilization. Fair and regulated markets are for people who want civilization to continue. So much of this post is ridiculous. We should back our currency with a basket of commodities. Ideally we would follow Hayek’s advice and have private money and competing currencies. The primary reason for honest money is to restrain government power and keep business honest. Yes, despite what you may have been told, government regulation and central banking has hurt the little guys and benefited the business class greatly. Our whole system of corporate welfare, subsidies and too big to fail would be impossible without fiat money. With a gold standard or competing currencies or a basket of commodities backing our currency, we would have a more just and equitable society, a smaller constitutional government without excessive debt and more freedom. The gap between rich and poor would be less, the economy would be healthier, and business would be more ethical. ---
**Author:** ![jrodefeld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jrodefeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrodefeld)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/165 "2010-05-04T00:26:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I’ve known very little about Ron Paul. Through this thread I’ve learned a little bit more and got a sense of who supports him and with what sorts of arguments. Previously, not knowing much about him other than that he is of a libertarian streak and backed that up with publicly arguing for ending the war on drugs and being against the war in Iraq I kinda sorta thought he might be someone with something there. And that he might be someone that the Tea Partiers could end up backing, and that that, plus his extant dedicated followers, might make him a force in the primaries, given how weak the field is. > > I am now quite sure he is a loon. And that even the Tea Partiers will see that. > > Thank you, **jrodefeld** for reducing my ignorance. Expand on that a little. Don’t judge Ron Paul based on what I or anyone else on this thread said. Look at what he said in the links I have posted. Read some of his books. What, you think because he supports the Gold Standard he is crazy? Come on. ---
**Author:** ![jrodefeld](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@jrodefeld](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrodefeld)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/166 "2010-05-04T00:33:38Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > So you’re of the opinion that if we point out one or two ridiculous things a man has said, that we can dismiss him as a crackpot and disregard his entire body of work and/or value as an individual in his field? > > Ron Paul must be dead to you. No, but in my opinion the work of the Austrians is superior to what Keynes wrote about. Even if you like Keynes, you must admit that to support one individual to the exclusion of all others is irresponsible. The Austrians and many others have made significant contributions to economic thought that establishment economists ignore due to their unhealthy fixation on John Maynord Keynes. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/167 "2010-05-04T00:35:51Z")
I prefer Maynard James Keenan. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/168 "2010-05-04T00:45:50Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I prefer Maynard James Keenan. Or even [Maynard G. Krebs](http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/lawrence/153/krebs.html). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/169 "2010-05-04T01:04:54Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > I’m not 18, but I’m young enough to be idealistic (25, actually). You all are probably right that Ron Paul won’t get the nomination. I do think he would make it very interesting if he were to run, so I hope he does. You gotta admit the Republican Debates would be a lot more interesting with him there. > > The tragedy is that we need to actually pursue some of his policy ideas to show how they would work, yet people are too fearful to try anything new. Why wouldn’t a society without social security work? Do you lack the imagination? Every time we have a government program expansion, we are told we could not possibly survive without it. People just have no imagination. > > Does the fact that these programs are bankrupt mean anything to you? Medicare and Social Security are unsustainable. We cannot experiment with the livelihoods of every senior citizen in American. At the moment all of these people have paid into a trust fund for services later. (Forgetting the widows, orphans and handicapped covered by social security and medicare.) Defaulting on this obligation would be as catastrophic as defaulting on T-bills for the confidence in the dollar. You say that social security and medicare are bankrupt. No, they are not. Bankrupt has a particular meaning. Broke has a particular meaning. Social Security currently runs at a deficit. That is not the same as broke or bankrupt. If nothing is done to change things, then in 30 years social security may be broke and bankrupt on their obligations. All that has to be done to cover social security is to remove the regressive cap on the payroll tax. Only the first $106,800 is taxed. Meaning that someone making more than that pays a lower percentage of their paycheck in taxes than someone making minimum wage. In any progressive tax system that is anathema. The other solution is to raise other taxes to meet these obligations. Corporate taxes are much lower than personal taxes. I don’t accept this as politically just. I don’t view corporations as human beings and do not believe that corporations should have special exemptions and deductions. Over the past 30 years our tax and debt structure has shifted the obligations away from the rich and corporations and onto earners who make far less money. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/170 "2010-05-04T01:06:34Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I would change the first part to be that a gold standard is for someone who wants to limit the size and growth of their economy in an effort to (in their own minds) control or stabilize it, and control the actual supply of money. The problems are myriad, including growth and, most importantly, that you are pegging your economy to a commodity that can and has fluctuated in price wildly over time, and who’s value is purely subjective. I think buying gold as more than a hedge is for folks who expect that civilization will collapse and who don’t actually understand that if it does, their gold may or may not actually be worth anything. People who actually think it’s a good idea to peg their economy to gold, however, are simply courting the collapse of their own countries economy, which, in the case of the US, could very well lead to the collapse of civilization as we know it (dogs and cats living together in sin, fire, brimstone and all that other stuff). > > Other than that, I find myself strangely in agreement with you. 😉 > > -XT I too find this thread extremely disturbing for that reason: it is a convergence in the Force. But which of us will betray our friends to the Dark Side? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/171 "2010-05-04T01:13:56Z")
_throws down light saber_ You’ve failed, your highness! I’ll never turn towards the… oooOOOO…shinny… -XT ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/172 "2010-05-04T01:27:26Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > So much of this post is ridiculous. We should back our currency with a basket of commodities. Ideally we would follow Hayek’s advice and have private money and competing currencies. The primary reason for honest money is to restrain government power and keep business honest. Yes, despite what you may have been told, government regulation and central banking has hurt the little guys and benefited the business class greatly. Our whole system of corporate welfare, subsidies and too big to fail would be impossible without fiat money. > > With a gold standard or competing currencies or a basket of commodities backing our currency, we would have a more just and equitable society, a smaller constitutional government without excessive debt and more freedom. The gap between rich and poor would be less, the economy would be healthier, and business would be more ethical. Well, then what commodities? Once you name the commodities, then they will become bizarrely over-valued. How about not naming them. Essentially, that is what we do now. You advocate going to gold as a medium of exchange without realizing that doing so makes people chase disproportionately whatever that medium of exchange is, be it gold, or tulip bulbs, or basket of commodities (BOC). The dollar or other fiat currency is superior precisely because it is backed by “full faith and credit” and then performance on that full faith and credit. It requires not faith in BOC and holding onto BOC, but requires that people work their damned hardest to ensure that government is run with as little corruption and incompetence as possible: that is our real security. That is why xtimse on the right and me on the left examine every motive of what the other does and fights to make sure that the rascals are regularly exposed and thrown out of office. Our survival depends on it. You want a fool-proof system because corruption is inherent and you don’t want to spend your life fighting it. But that won’t work: you have to participate or the other fool has all the power. At least a minority in government has the power to squawk. (Not that us Democrats know how to raise an unholy stink like the Pubbies do.) It’s messy and doesn’t look like it should work and shouldn’t work, but it does if everybody does their roles vigorously. And we also have competing currencies. Until W the Bush was in charge, the King of Currencies was the US Dollar, and it still arguably is. The Euro keeps threatening to challenge that, but the Greece crisis and its currently unmentionable cousins show that several sovereign nations banding together for a currency is not as weak as several sovereign states ceding all currency power to a central government as the US does. There is simply not enough gold in the world to make it at all useful as a currency. I have maybe three or four ounces of gold. There is less than 10 billion ounces of gold mined throughout history. [http://www.howstuffworks.com/question213.htm](http://www.howstuffworks.com/question213.htm). With six billion plus people, and the US and other governments holding most of it, I would be wealthy. But I’d never spend any of it. Neither would anyone else. The economy would grind to a halt. Dollars are useful because they can be exchanged anywhere in the world for goods and services and fly around the world at the speed of light. There is nothing preventing anyone from using gold that way now. Nobody significant does that because in the market place the dollar, by fiat, is better than gold. If gold or BOC were superior, then rich and powerful people would insist on it. They don’t, they insist on genuine US fiat dollars. In the free market of ideas, gold and BOC have been competed into near non-existence. You are arguing for an artificial correction to the market by declaring gold or BOC standard, for the purpose of removing the standard that is preferred by the rich and powerful the world over. That is against classical economics. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/173 "2010-05-04T01:28:28Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > _throws down light saber_ You’ve failed, your highness! I’ll never turn towards the… > oooOOOO…shinny… > > -XT Careful, you’re going to give change the homeless next. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/174 "2010-05-04T02:18:29Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Ron Paul understands that the Keynesian economic policy that Obama is pursuing will make the problem much worse and prevent a true recovery and most troublesome the possible collapse of the dollar. You do understand that, whatever criticism you might make of a specific application, Keynesian economics as such has never been discredited? I mention that only because for some reason it seems to be taken as fact among RWs and Libertarians that it has been, somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/175 "2010-05-04T02:28:18Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Well, what about the blind adulation for Keynes and the complete neglect of the Austrian School in mainstream economic circles? Doesn’t that bother you a little? John Maynord Keynes is practically worshiped in Washington D.C. No, he is not. You have been severely misinformed. Seriously, who told you this? The most apt description of how Keynes is generally viewed in Washington, D.C., is, “We are all Keynesians now; we are all not Keynesians now.” That was Milton Friedman who uttered that, you know. There are many economists who are respected here, depending on their politics. But in my experience, there is nobody who truly believes the Keynesian axiom that monetary policy is useless in a recession… nor is there anyone who really believes Friedman’s writings that monetary policy alone can cure any ill. Anyone who tells you that people in DC are slaves to this economic theory or the other is lying to you. Virtually everyone here has some favored economic theories, and respects various schools of thought, but there are only a handful of zealots who go so far as to take the writings of a handful of economists as political gospel. Ron Paul is one of them. His narrow-minded focus on there being only one answer to how the world works isn’t a feature, it is a defect. > [@](#): > > Since you claim to have a decent understanding of the Austrian School, why are they wrong? Why shouldn’t we look to people like Ron Paul for policies to get us out of this economic mess? I know I’m not going to convince you they are wrong, I can only hope at the most that you would open your mind to intelligent arguments beyond those that you so strongly profess allegiance to. Since it is probably a waste of time to make a point by point argument, let me summarize by saying that the modalities of thinking of that brand of economics have convinced me that its proponents are seeking a particular political utopia that is unsubstantiated by the realities of the inefficiencies and waste within our economic system. The proponents generally try to pass off these inefficiencies as insufficient purity of policy – that any failings of the free market are because the market needs to be freer, aka “No True Scotsman.” The tragedy is that the failings of the market are not only the inefficiencies of the distribution and movement of wealth, but also due to social problems – and that school tries very hard to deny the existence of social ills that don’t have a monetized value. In short, it is an inhumane belief in politico-economy theories that turns a blind eye to human suffering when it is convenient to do so. Since I answered your questions, could you answer my long-standing questions of 1) when Ron Paul ever entered a formal study of economics, and 2) a description of your personal views as to whether the US Government was complicit in the 9/11 conspiracy? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/176 "2010-05-04T02:29:07Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > Expand on that a little. Don’t judge Ron Paul based on what I or anyone else on this thread said. Look at what he said in the links I have posted. Read some of his books. > > What, you think because he supports the Gold Standard he is crazy? Come on. I am generally someone who becomes at least moderately well informed about politics and issues and I am not going to read his books. I also didn’t read any of Obama’s for that matter. Nor will I go through long series of links or watch over 32 youtube videos. If I don’t you can be sure that neither will 99% of the electorate or greater. Nope. We will judge based on how he is presented by his supporters. If what they say makes a strong case then maybe we’ll go and find out more. If not we’ll go with the overall consensus, and this time that consensus cuts across wide ideologic divides. The case made here is not one that impresses. When I hear a supporter claim that their candidate is “the only person” who understands: terrorism (and the cause is exclusively that we have wronged them); economics (and dismisses most modern economists as not knowing anything compared to these other greats of the past and attacks anyone with an alternate POV as ignorant); foreign policy (trying to get international consensus to prevent Iran from becoming nuclear capable and to engage them meaningfully is a “propaganda effort”); when I find out that he is one of those who uses his soapbox to discourage others from participating in vaccine programs that save lives; when I find out that he has allowed hateful speech to be published under his name … all of these things convince me that he is at best a fool but a potentially harmful fool if so. You have presented the case for Ron Paul and it has shown me how bad he is. I have gone from ignorant of most of his positions and mainly neutral about him to more informed of his positions and thinking very badly of him for them. How does he compare to the rest of the GOP field? Well I see no reason to think that he’ll do much better than he did before even though the field is indeed quite weak. But with those choices who knows? Enthused supporters like his go a long way in a primary; Tea Partiers may not look any deeper than promising tax cuts; others may just stay home. I wouldn’t say it impossible for him to win a primary or even the nomination, although I highly doubt either. But if he actually gets any traction it will be easy for the competition to go negative on him and make him look crazy … cause that’s what he seems to be. And not only because of the Gold Standard bit, although the anti vaccine statements _are_ enough on their own. You asked. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/177 "2010-05-04T02:32:10Z")
[QUOTE=The Second Stone] Careful, you’re going to give change the homeless next. [/QUOTE] Naw…I’ll leave that to Obama… Actually, thinking about the OP, and considering that this will probably be a throw away election for the Republican’s (unless anyone seriously thinks Obama isn’t just going to walk through the re-election), perhaps RP IS the best candidate for the next cycle. -XT ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/178 "2010-05-04T02:39:42Z")
I think it is Obama in a walk over. His biggest mistake was not waiting a month on his offshore drilling policy. Liberals like me have nowhere to go but Obammuel and he has moved so far to the right of the middle that he will look attractive to just about anybody the Pubbies put up. Sarah will run if only to keep her value on the speakers’ tour. Romney is the only one on the right that I can see would attract the middle voters necessary. I don’t think that the Republicans will nominate him. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/179 "2010-05-04T03:13:01Z")
> [@jrodefeld](#): > > No, but in my opinion the work of the Austrians is superior to what Keynes wrote about. Even if you like Keynes, you must admit that to support one individual to the exclusion of all others is irresponsible. The Austrians and many others have made significant contributions to economic thought that establishment economists ignore due to their unhealthy fixation on John Maynord Keynes. To my view, Austrian economics either ignores completely or pays short-shrift to many market problems such as externality problems, information asymetry problems, bilateral monopoly issues, general monopoly/oligopoly problems, coordination problems, bargaining problems, holdout problems, natural monopolies, elasticity issues, underinsurance and 3rd party liability problems… well, the list goes on and on. And these aren’t obscure problems. They are well-studied problems that have been constantly examined and re-examined by economists, politicians and legal theorists. Additionally, the Austrian school has a tendency to eschew empirical and data analysis in favor of theoretical paradigms. I don’t see how one can claim to be doing any sort of comprehensive analysis if the tendency is to eschew real-world data. Finally, while there are some libertarians who have moved away from strict Austrian school paradigms in recognition of the above problems I mentioned, many libertarian economic arguments tend to rest on politically untenable assumptions, such as the abolition of all publicly owned property or a return to the gold standard, which are so unlikely to happen that those concepts are really just interesting theoretical exercises. I also think that to claim that economists are irrationally excluding Austrian thought is really to misunderstand modern economics. I would be surprised if any mainstream economist was completely unfamiliar with basic Austrian school concepts, since the paradigm used to arrive at them is similar to the conceptual micro-models that most econ students study in the beginning anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114/180 "2010-05-04T04:41:57Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I don’t think Palin has every advocated switching to the gold standard. That is because: a) no one has ever told her to advocate it. b) she hasn’t figured out a way to make it into a short, catchy phrase that will whip the lemmings into a frenzy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-candidate-to-challenge-barack-obama-in-2012-is-ron-paul/538114.md?page=10)