# The best electric bassist of all time. Carol Kaye? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 2, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396 "2014-11-02T21:50:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/21 "2014-11-03T02:37:19Z")
[Interview with Robby Krieger](http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/robby-krieger-talks-guitars-and-the-doors-212284/#null) > [@](#): > > Why did you record with a bassist but play live without one? > > "Mainly what the bassist would play was what Ray [Manzarek, Doors’ keyboardist] would play with his left hand and he used a Fender Rhodes Piano Bass that sat on top of his organ – it was like a small Fender Rhodes but just the bass notes. > > "So the bass player would pretty much copy what Ray was doing, but not all the time. We had some great players. The first guy we had was Larry Knechtel and he played on Light My Fire and some other songs on the first album. He pretty much copied was [sic] Ray played with his left hand. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/22 "2014-11-03T03:39:18Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > It’s worth mentioning that in recent years Carol has credited herself for sessions she never took part in. > > Case in point. > > Personally I think she’s just a little confused, as her resume hardly needs any padding. She was an amazing musician. Have any official records been found that identifies the session musicians on those 1960’s albums? There would have been production records but I wonder if they were even preserved. Assuming the logs were kept, compiling all those paper based records into a useful searchable database would be a mammoth task. They cranked out so many songs. Many were just obscure cuts on long forgotten albums. I can believe that even the musicians have trouble remembering which records they played on. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/23 "2014-11-03T03:48:01Z")
btw, were nearly all these bass players using a standard 4 string bass? EADG just like a guitar’s 4th,5th,6th strings except an electric bass is an octave lower. I know today guys are playing more strings. But what about back then? ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/24 "2014-11-03T04:05:39Z")
These sort of threads are so pointless. What constitutes ‘best’? Most technically proficient? Most innovative? Most prolific? Most recognizable? I personally don’t care how technically proficient a bass player is… I think Victor Wooten is probably one of the most gifted players, but I haven’t heard anything from him that didn’t bore me to tears. To me, picking a best bass player is like me picking my favorite food or movie, it’s not static and changes depending on my mood at the time, or what I’ve heard latest. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/25 "2014-11-03T04:14:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > btw, were nearly all these bass players using a standard 4 string bass? EADG just like a guitar’s 4th,5th,6th strings except an electric bass is an octave lower. > > I know today guys are playing more strings. But what about back then? Actually Kaye often used a six string Danelectro bass, which had been popularized by Duane Eddy. Kaye claims the great six string bass solo by Glen Campbell on “Wichita Lineman” was with a Danelectro she loaned him. Five string basses didn’t become popular until the 80s, typically in a BEADG setting. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/26 "2014-11-03T04:33:31Z")
McCartney? He seems to get overlooked in bass guitar threads, but his style was (is) unique. He seemed to play rhythm bass to the songs, not just bass to back the drummer. I am not a musician and don’t know what I’m talking about: just offered up for suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/27 "2014-11-03T04:41:39Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > Carol Kaye probably did not play bass on any Doors recording, let alone “Light My Fire,” which featured Larry Knechtel. I don’t believe The Doors had a studio bass player on their first album at all. Jerry Scheff played bass on their latter albums but I’ve never heard of Carol Kaye? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/28 "2014-11-03T04:47:26Z")
ETA: I just researched this now and had no idea The Doors did employ a studio bass player on earlier albums. But not Carol. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/29 "2014-11-03T04:48:36Z")
> [@installLSC](#): > > Actually Kaye often used a six string Danelectro bass, which had been popularized by Duane Eddy. Kaye claims the great six string bass solo by Glen Campbell on “Wichita Lineman” was with a Danelectro she loaned him. Five string basses didn’t become popular until the 80s, typically in a BEADG setting. I enjoy learning about the 60’s music and musicians. Thanks installLSC ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/30 "2014-11-03T05:04:57Z")
Jaco Pastorious or Victor Wooten. Add in Marcus Miller and Bootsy Collins for kicks. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/31 "2014-11-03T05:25:59Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > McCartney? > > He seems to get overlooked in bass guitar threads, but his style was (is) unique. He seemed to play rhythm bass to the songs, not just bass to back the drummer. > > I am not a musician and don’t know what I’m talking about: just offered up for suggestion. Nah, he’s really great. Being a Beatle and a songwriter is almost a distraction from how good of a bass player he was. I kind of agree with **nate** that debating who’s greatest is kind of pointless. But I have no problem of lists of who’s great, because I get reminded of people I’ve forgotten, and learn about new players I haven’t heard of. I’ve played bass for 30+ years, and there was a point in time that I didn’t know the difference between Carol Kaye and Carole King (yes, I thought they were just one very busy person). So maybe if we include enough trivial anecdotes, we can keep the OP happy, and debate the finer bass players of all time. 🙂 ETA: Damn, how’d I forget BOOTSY! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/32 "2014-11-03T06:18:09Z")
Another vote for Paul McCartney as an utterly amazing bassist. Check out Sgt. Pepper’s again and listen to the bass. Just sublime. I’ll also throw in Phil Lesh as a great electric bassist. ---
**Author:** ![Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fool_in_the_Rain)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/33 "2014-11-03T15:02:27Z")
No thoughts on John Paul Jones? Never mind what he did with Zeppelin which is great in its own right, but he was a demanded session bass player in the sixties, performing in hundreds of sessions, as well a composer and arranger, before joining Zep. He could also play [QUOTE=wikipedia] Bass guitar, keyboards, harp, double bass, mandolin, mandola, mandocello, mandobass, guitar, recorder, koto, lap steel guitar, continuum, autoharp, ukulele, sitar, keytar, banjo, saxophone, flute, viola, cello, violin, vocals, bass pedals, harmonica, pedal steel guitar [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wikipedia] Many notable rock bassists have been influenced by John Paul Jones, including John Deacon,[4] Geddy Lee,[5] Steve Harris,[6] Flea,[7] Gene Simmons,[8] and Krist Novoselic. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/34 "2014-11-03T16:59:52Z")
> [@](#): > > He could also play > > [Quote=wikipedia] > > Bass guitar, keyboards, harp, double bass, mandolin, mandola, mandocello, mandobass, guitar, recorder, koto, lap steel guitar, continuum, autoharp, ukulele, sitar, keytar, banjo, saxophone, flute, viola, cello, violin, vocals, bass pedals, harmonica, pedal steel guitar [/quote] Starting around eleven fifteen on the night of Feb. 29, 1969, after taking four tabs of acid with a groupie visiting London from San Francisco and hoping to get close to Jimi Hendrix, Jones played all of his instruments in a “dazzzzzling” twenty-seven hour solo concert that culminated in playing them simultaneously for an eighteen-minute jam that Mike Jagger called the “best ever,” inspired Steve Stills to play all the instrumental parts on “Suite: Judy Blue Eyes,” and caused Keith Moon to back over his chauffeur in his own car. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/35 "2014-11-03T17:02:47Z")
Well, I have my own favorites, but as a non-musician I’m probably not qualified tio judge who’s the “best.” Geddy Lee fans should know that Geddy himself nominates Percy Jones and Jeff Berlin, for what that’s worth. Pat Metheny’s rhythm section of bassist Christian McBride and drummer Antonio Sanchez both impressed the hell out of me. And whether or no they were playing DIFFICULT parts, Chris Squire and Paul McCartney always seemed to play just the right notes. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/36 "2014-11-03T17:07:29Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Yeah, Carol will have to get in line behind at least them. I’d also add: > > Duck Dunn > Rob Wright > Jack Bruce > Berry Oakley > Larry Taylor > Mike Watt > Peter Hook I’d say “with”, not “behind”. She belongs in there somewhere, and all those names can be ranked in lots of different ways depending on what you’re looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fool_in_the_Rain)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/37 "2014-11-03T17:19:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Starting around eleven fifteen on the night of Feb. 29, 1969, after taking four tabs of acid with a groupie visiting London from San Francisco and hoping to get close to Jimi Hendrix, Jones played all of his instruments in a “dazzzzzling” twenty-seven hour solo concert that culminated in playing them simultaneously for an eighteen-minute jam that Mike Jagger called the “best ever,” inspired Steve Stills to play all the instrumental parts on “Suite: Judy Blue Eyes,” and caused Keith Moon to back over his chauffeur in his own car. Ha!! Now that would be a show to see 😛 ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/38 "2014-11-03T17:45:03Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > I’d say “with”, not “behind”. She belongs in there somewhere, and all those names can be ranked in lots of different ways depending on what you’re looking for. Yeah, a specific ranking isn’t really meaningful. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Music and art aren’t physics or the Olympics. It’s an emotional response, and you just can’t measure and define things well enough to go around really ranking them in the concrete way I alluded to at first. But! JPJ is up there with the best of them, to me. One of the first difficult bass parts that I tried to learn was ["What is and What Should Never Be](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lUtiG3C2RI) (nope, that’s not me playing it). It was an eye opener. Familiarity with him probably breeds contempt, in my case. I’ve been playing those parts since jr. high. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/39 "2014-11-03T18:55:44Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > ETA: I just researched this now and had no idea The Doors did employ a studio bass player on earlier albums. But not Carol. They’d established themselves with Ray playing simplistic bass lines on a “key-bass” instrument. When they finally graduated to the studio, they found that the bass sound “good enough for stage shows” wasn’t going to cut it for studio recordings. So LK was brought in afterward to overdub Ray’s “bass” lines to give them a decent sound. For subsequent albums they very wisely employed bassists to play lines that sounded good in both tonal quality and level of expertise. Ray continued to use the key-bass on stage. Sounded good enough live (I saw them [with Jim] four times) and on live albums. . ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396/40 "2014-11-03T19:41:53Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > They’d established themselves with Ray playing simplistic bass lines on a “key-bass” instrument. When they finally graduated to the studio, they found that the bass sound “good enough for stage shows” wasn’t going to cut it for studio recordings. So LK was brought in afterward to overdub Ray’s “bass” lines to give them a decent sound. > For subsequent albums they very wisely employed bassists to play lines that sounded good in both tonal quality and level of expertise. > Ray continued to use the key-bass on stage. Sounded good enough live (I saw them [with Jim] four times) and on live albums. > > . Thanks for that. I’ve read some Doors books and stories and always thought it was just the four of them, at least on the first album. I see you mentioned the bass was dubbed after. I had no idea. Thanks. And four times with Jim! I don’t want to hijack the thread. What were the shows like? Was Jim wasted or what? Maybe a slight hijack post here would be OK or you could PM me? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-electric-bassist-of-all-time-carol-kaye/703396.md?page=3)