# The best ideas that became the worst works **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 19, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717 "2010-12-19T15:14:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/41 "2010-12-22T18:33:48Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > [A Family Dinner](http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Caran-d-ache-dreyfus-supper.jpg) That poor dog… ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/42 "2010-12-22T18:36:10Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > I agree it clearly was a comedy, and a hilarious one at that, but from what I can tell, **Starship Troopers** is second only to **Hamlet** in terms of brilliance and importance, so asking its fans to have a sense of humor about anything that bears its name is an exercise in futility. **Starship Troopers** is a comedy in the same way that **Plan 9 From Outer Space** or Ken Russell’s **Tommy** are comedies – completely unintentionally. The movie is deadly serious about its drama and meaning and it’s funny only because it is so inept. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/43 "2010-12-22T18:57:33Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > **Starship Troopers** is a comedy in the same way that **Plan 9 From Outer Space** or Ken Russell’s **Tommy** are comedies – completely unintentionally. The movie is deadly serious about its drama and meaning and it’s funny only because it is so inept. When you cant grasp satire, dont start giving lectures on humour. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/44 "2010-12-22T19:10:54Z")
Look, people. It is very clear that Verhoeven meant Starship Troopers and Showgirls to be parodies. That doesn’t make them great movies, it just means that Verhoeven hates the movie-going public and made these movies to illustrate his thesis. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/45 "2010-12-22T19:11:43Z")
There are titties in _Starship Troopers_? I might have to at least give it a cursory watch. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/46 "2010-12-22T19:24:33Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Look, people. It is very clear that Verhoeven meant Starship Troopers and Showgirls to be parodies. That doesn’t make them great movies, it just means that Verhoeven hates the movie-going public and made these movies to illustrate his thesis. I think he meant satires, you think it was parodies. Anyway, Robocop is on the same boat as Starship Troopers, do you hate that one too? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/47 "2010-12-22T19:30:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, Robocop is on the same boat as Starship Troopers, do you hate that one too? I love **RoboCop**. In fact, it was a revelation – I expected it to be stupid, but it was wonderful, informed dark satire. But a.) RoboCop isn’t based on anything else. In particular, it isn’t a completely shifted in every way version of some literary work. b. ) RoboCop is VERY obviously meant to be humorous and satirical – “I want a car that gets really shitty gas mileage”? the Chiodo brothers hack commercials? The tongue-wedged-firmly-in-cheek news broadcasts? Even though both movies had the same screenwriter, ST isn’t anywhere near as blatant or obvious in its satire. You can take ST as absolutely straight. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/48 "2010-12-22T19:33:17Z")
I didn’t say I hated them. But if you look at the arc of Verhoeven’s career, you can definately see the misanthropic thread increasing. It’s there in Robocop and Total Recall, but it doesn’t dominate the movies. Verhoeven doesn’t hold the protagonists of those movies in contempt. But then there’s Basic Instinct and Showgirls and Starship Troopers, where the misanthropy has grown to include not just the surrounding authority figures and society, to include the protagonists. This is why it doesn’t make sense to be annoyed at people who didn’t enjoy “Showgirls”. Because if you want to see a movie about a slut and her tits, you’re not going to enjoy a movie that deliberately punishes you for wanting to see a movie about a slut and her tits. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/49 "2010-12-22T19:36:01Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > You can take ST as absolutely straight. And that’s precisely what is satire. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/50 "2010-12-22T19:48:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, Robocop is on the same boat as Starship Troopers, do you hate that one too? If you think that the style of RoboCop is the same as that of Starship Troopers, our sensitivities are too different for us to meaningfully discuss or argue this. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/51 "2010-12-22T20:08:03Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > When you cant grasp satire, dont start giving lectures on humour. Indeed. I can’t imagine how anybody could watch any Verhoeven movie and think “Yep, this dude is 100% sincere and he’s just an inept film maker.” While I don’t mean to imply he’s as clever as Swift, it is a little like when I introduce _A Modest Proposal_ to my Intro to Writing students and they’re all horrified that somebody would suggest eating babies. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/52 "2010-12-23T11:02:52Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > b. ) RoboCop is VERY obviously meant to be humorous and satirical – “I want a car that gets really shitty gas mileage”? the Chiodo brothers hack commercials? The tongue-wedged-firmly-in-cheek news broadcasts? Even though both movies had the same screenwriter, ST isn’t anywhere near as blatant or obvious in its satire. You can take ST as absolutely straight. I couldn’t disagree more. ST is nothing _but_ satire, while RoboCop has enough human elements and genuinely disturbing moments to stand up as a valid story in it’s own right (I had actually barely considered RoboCop as satire, but then I was a child in the 80s so perhaps it wasn’t as obvious when I finally saw it). If you can take ST as straight then you’re an idiot. You really think the bits where the media is interviewing soldiers on the front-lines while people are being dismembered by bugs in the background are intended to be serious? ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717/53 "2010-12-23T11:09:25Z")
Oh, and ‘Sphere’. I read the book thought ‘this was written to be made into a film’. Considering what an easy job they had they really managed to fuck that one up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-ideas-that-became-the-worst-works/564717.md?page=2)