# The Best Nation on Earth... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958 "2009-07-23T03:09:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Anaglyph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Anaglyph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaglyph)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/61 "2009-07-23T15:06:17Z")
> [@HowieReynolds](#): > > This thread is fun. > > Look, I hate a lot about the United States. I hate our constant warmongering. I hate the fact that we are always last place when it comes to things like ending slavery and giving rights to minorities. And I hate the fact that our rich people like to pretend that they got that way without any help from society and raise hell every time they are asked to give a little back. But dammit, I don’t see Denmark putting a man on the moon. I don’t see Sweden curing diseases and advancing science like we do. I don’t see Finland leading the way for humanity. Getting ten weeks of vacation is nice, sure, but as a species, we also have bigger fish to fry. > > I think the US is the best nation right now. But we have gotten lazy recently and are in easy position to get picked off. Well, if you look at nobel prizes per capita, Iceland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, UK, Austria, Ireland, Germany and the Netherlands are all ahead of the US, with Switzerland having three times as many as the US. ([link](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_nob_pri_lau_percap-nobel-prize-laureates-per-capita)). As a young scientist, you spend a significantly larger fraction of your time (around 1/3) on writing grant applications rather than doing science than you do in Europe -you spend an awful lot of time on stupid burocracy. The US space program was jump-started by experts imported from Germany. For someone used to the direct democracy of Switzerland, the American electoral system seems extremely awkward - appropriate to a time before telegraph lines linked all the major population center and it took months to travel from one end of the country to the other, not to the age of the internet. I was shocked how many homeless people you see in the streets of Washington DC - can’t a large and affluent society care for it’s weakest members? While americans are proud of their freedom, I was shocked how often I was told: You can’t do this because the insurance won’t cover it, or because you will be sued to bankruptcy if anything goes wrong. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/62 "2009-07-23T15:10:36Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > And it has “Great” in the name, making it clearly the front runner. I rest my case ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/63 "2009-07-23T15:21:03Z")
The answer is clearly Canada. We’re like the United States, except with lower taxes (soon), a better banking system, and less debt. Plus, we’re not as fat. The U.S. also suffers from a glut of Perez Hilton. On the other hand, the United States wins if you define the ‘best’ as ‘the country most capable of killing you if you don’t agree that it is the best.’ ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/64 "2009-07-23T15:34:50Z")
This reminds me of the old contest a web site ran, asking readers to submit entries for the thread title most likely to create a large argument. The winner: “My five favorite races (in order)” ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/65 "2009-07-23T15:57:05Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Obviously you aren’t gay. > > Obviously you don’t care for cuban cigars or wish to vacation in Cuba. > > There isn’t an option available to you in the US that I don’t have in Canada. No place is perfect. I love Canada – I go back as often as I can. However, there is nothing similar in the U.S. to the restrictive language laws of Quebec. And those language laws are the reasons our family left Montreal in the 70s (when I was a teenager) and went California. ---
**Author:** ![lshaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e36b37/32.png) [@lshaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lshaw)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/66 "2009-07-23T16:55:42Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Anyways, I’m going to venture one of the Scandinavian countries. They always tend to cluster towards the top of all those international rankings: good economies, health care systems, vacation times, etc. Yes, I think so too. One of the Scandinavian countries and maybe Luxembourg. While I think we have it better than a lot of other places in the world, I would definitely not call the US the best nation. ---
**Author:** ![MrSquishy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MrSquishy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSquishy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/67 "2009-07-23T18:39:19Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > No place is perfect. I love Canada – I go back as often as I can. However, there is nothing similar in the U.S. to the restrictive language laws of Quebec. And those language laws are the reasons our family left Montreal in the 70s (when I was a teenager) and went California. Well, I’m sure that’s not the only reason you went to California. To get away from restrictive language laws, all you had to do was get the hell out of Quebec. ---
**Author:** ![North\_Going\_Zaxian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@North\_Going\_Zaxian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/North_Going_Zaxian)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/68 "2009-07-23T19:19:46Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Canada is ~85% white while the US is ~65%, and I’m pretty sure we have more Spanish-speakers than you have French-speakers. > > \ > > We have more Spanish-speakers than you have _people._ [From Cia World Factbook:](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook) Canada: Ethnic groups: British Isles origin 28%, French origin 23%, other European 15%, Amerindian 2%, other, mostly Asian, African, Arab 6%, mixed background 26% Languages: English (official) 59.3%, French (official) 23.2%, other 17.5% US: Ethnic groups: white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate) note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (including persons of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.); about 15.1% of the total US population is Hispanic Languages: English 82.1%, Spanish 10.7%, other Indo-European 3.8%, Asian and Pacific island 2.7%, other 0.7% (2000 census) Your numbers are backwards. edit: Plus we have the metric system… (runs far far away) ---
**Author:** ![HoboStew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f17d59/32.png) [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/69 "2009-07-23T19:40:24Z")
Isn’t everyone going to answer this question roughly the same: “Mine.”? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/70 "2009-07-23T21:08:09Z")
> [@North\_Going\_Zaxian](#): > > Your numbers are backwards. I’m no herpetologist, but . . . your numbers don’t really give us a clear picture of the non-white population of Canada, and the numbers for the US seem to include hispanic under white. I know Cuba, Mexico, etc have large white-hispanic populations, but to my knowledge they don’t tend to be the ones who move here, making most of that 15% non-white and bringing the white number down around the ~65% I stated. [This table](http://www.recensement2006.ca/english/census06/data/highlights/ethnic/pages/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo=PR&Code=01&Table=1&Data=Count&StartRec=1&Sort=2&Display=Page) gives the visible minority population of Canada around 16%; inline with the ~85% white I stated. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/71 "2009-07-23T21:13:13Z")
> [@MrSquishy](#): > > Well, I’m sure that’s not the only reason you went to California. To get away from restrictive language laws, all you had to do was get the hell out of Quebec. We were American citizens, we had a lot of family ties in many places in the U.S. The only place in Canada we had family ties was Montreal. My father chose California out of all the places we had family because he was tired of cold winters. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/72 "2009-07-23T21:15:58Z")
I vote for the USA. But if you’re a Canadian, I HOPE you think Cananda is the greatest country in the world. If you’re a Spaniard, I HOPE you think Spain is the greatest country in the world. If you’re a Kenyan who thinks Kenya is the greatest country in the world, far be it from me to tell you it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/73 "2009-07-23T21:18:26Z")
My vote is for the Nation of Domination ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/74 "2009-07-23T21:37:14Z")
The nation of [Lovely](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovely_(micronation)). Clearly the best. It’s lovely. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/75 "2009-07-23T21:37:33Z")
[http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/happiest\_countries/index\_01.htm](http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/happiest_countries/index_01.htm) Going by relative happiness ,we are number 23 in America. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/76 "2009-07-23T21:43:40Z")
I am American and recently married a lovely woman from Australia, and we had an interesting discussion about this topic. I kind of assumed, as a red blooded patriotic American who has strongly liberal sensibilities, that the answer was the US, but with a big asterisk concerning the war in Iraq, Gitmo, etc., plus of course many past injustices. To her, though, it was just a silly question. How can you possibly define what it means? So I’m happy with my current plan of living in the US, but with a quick escape clause to Australia if the economy collapses. I’ve read LOTS of post-apocalyptic fiction in which Australia is the last place left with civilization 🙂 I found a wikipedia page with lots of country rankings (such as [this one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index), except that one page had links to a whole bunch of them), and of the “good” ones, Australia was at or near the top of every one. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/77 "2009-07-23T21:49:10Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/happiest\_countries/index\_01.htm](http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/happiest_countries/index_01.htm) > Going by relative happiness ,we are number 23 in America. I swear I read one of those not too long ago that had some sub-Saharan African country (maybe Angola?) in first place, but I haven’t been able to find it since. Most of them seem to be biased towards Europe. Does anybody remember seeing the list I’m remembering? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/78 "2009-07-23T22:36:08Z")
> [@HowieReynolds](#): > > I meant among the civilized and advanced nations who would otherwise be in the running for “Best Nation on Earth.” There is a lot to admire and envy and emulate in some of the nations of Europe and northern North America. But overall… U-S-A! For now. Right I know what you meant, but you’re still wrong. From what I understand racism in Europe is far worse than it is in the US even today. In France Muslims are relegated to ghettos and have trouble finding work. Unemployment is rife. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/79 "2009-07-23T22:43:57Z")
> [@Anaglyph](#): > > Well, if you look at nobel prizes per capita, Iceland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, UK, Austria, Ireland, Germany and the Netherlands are all ahead of the US, with Switzerland having three times as many as the US. ([link](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_nob_pri_lau_percap-nobel-prize-laureates-per-capita)). > As a young scientist, you spend a significantly larger fraction of your time (around 1/3) on writing grant applications rather than doing science than you do in Europe -you spend an awful lot of time on stupid burocracy. > > The US space program was jump-started by experts imported from Germany. > > For someone used to the direct democracy of Switzerland, the American electoral system seems extremely awkward - appropriate to a time before telegraph lines linked all the major population center and it took months to travel from one end of the country to the other, not to the age of the internet. > > I was shocked how many homeless people you see in the streets of Washington DC - can’t a large and affluent society care for it’s weakest members? > > While americans are proud of their freedom, I was shocked how often I was told: You can’t do this because the insurance won’t cover it, or because you will be sued to bankruptcy if anything goes wrong. It’s kind of comical when people compare the governmental issues facing a country the size of New Jersey with one the size of the US. There’s another advantage of the US, it is the most peaceful country over 100m people on Earth. Yeah, if the US was only New Jersey I’d argue for direct democracy too. As for importing scientists from Germany, the US is a country of Immigrants and always has been. That’s another thing that makes the US great. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958/80 "2009-07-23T22:49:59Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The answer is clearly Canada. We’re like the United States, except with lower taxes (soon), a better banking system, and less debt. Plus, we’re not as fat. The U.S. also suffers from a glut of Perez Hilton. Well if you guys had a significant entertainment industry, you’d have Perez Hilton too. Which country is lower? The one who exports Perez Hilton, or the one who imports him? I mean, we’re stuck with him by virtue of having the best media industry in the world, what’s your excuse? American cultural hegemony not to your liking? Well then since Canada is so great I’d think the simple solution would be to stop importing the stuff. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-best-nation-on-earth/503958.md?page=5)