The best NFL QB that never won the Superbowl?

[crypto]

@The_Other_Waldo_Pepper

You’ve got a point, but only to a point. By the stats, he came into the '68 season as the guy who’d passed for more yards than anyone in professional football in '67, just like he’d come into the '67 season as the guy who’d passed for more yards than anyone in professional football in '66. So with that gunslinger credential – along with the single-season passing-yards record – in his pocket when things kicked off in '68, he only needs to make it all the way to the Super Bowl, guarantee the 19-point underdog, and win the ensuing stat duel against Unitas in the big game: stronger on completions per attempt, and better touchdowns-to-interceptions ratio.

So he racks up the accolades at that point, and then it’s too late to take it back once he gets over-the-hill fast with injury after injury (but still makes the headlines by again passing for more yards than anyone else; he’s still got the arm, no matter how bad his knees get). If they’d known what was yet to come in January of '69, maybe they would’ve said something different – but given what he’d shown until then, what else could they have said?

You’ve got a point also. Probably a better one than mine. Before Namath lost his knees and his ability to avoid being crushed by defenders, he DID have the arm. After the knees were gone, he still had the arm.

But without that Super Bowl win, I don’t think he’s in the hall. If he remained healthy through his career, I think he would have been even without the ring, because as you mention, he was a major gunslinger and put up some major yardage stats.

I will also say that IMO, if Namath didn’t play for the Jets, he wouldn’t have gone to the hall. I will concede that I could be wrong. I realize the SB III victory was historic for so many reasons, so it’s hard to ignore. But NY teams tend to become immortalized because of the media center that NYC is.

As a non-football example, the greatest home run ever hit was a topic on the MLB network. Given that it was a 7th game walk-off home run, Mazeroski’s 1960 homer has to be number 1. They even were lucky enough to play the Yankees, who beat the living crap out of the Pirates in that series, and won 3 games with (I think) 10+ run margins in each. It was a crazy series, and somehow, a huge underdog won, and in dramatic fashion. But that wasn’t number one. Number one, of course, is Bobby Thompson’s “shot heard 'round the world”, which is not a terrible choice. But it didn’t win a world series. What it DID do was win the National League pennant between the NY Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers. Two NY teams. The interesting thing is, Joe Carter’s 6th game walk-off home run is barely mentioned compared to numbers one and two, and he hit a walk-off World Series home run also. If the teams involved weren’t the Blue Jays and Phillies, but one or two NY teams, would it be more famous? I say yes. If Carter played for the Yankees, that homer would leapfrog the Mazeroski home run.

Enough of that. I hate the East Coast bias, which is weird because I’ve lived much of my life close to the Atlantic Ocean.

In the end, I agree with your points about Namath and that time and place. It was pretty special.

[Tom_Scud]

@Stink Fish Pot

The interesting thing is, Joe Carter’s 6th game walk-off home run is barely mentioned compared to numbers one and two, and he hit a walk-off World Series home run also. If the teams involved weren’t the Blue Jays and Phillies, but one or two NY teams, would it be more famous? I say yes. If Carter played for the Yankees, that homer would leapfrog the Mazeroski home run.

Maybe you’re right, but the real problem with the Carter home run was that there was no drama to it at the time. Mitch Williams was pitching, and everyone in the building except Jim Fregosi knew that Williams had nothing left and couldn’t get anyone out. If Carter hadn’t done it, or had just singled Henderson in from second, whoever was up behind him would have.

[EllisDee]

@Stink Fish Pot

But without that Super Bowl win, I don’t think he’s in the hall. If he remained healthy through his career, I think he would have been even without the ring, because as you mention, he was a major gunslinger and put up some major yardage stats.

I think this entire paragraph is filled with obvious givens that aren’t worth noting.

I will also say that IMO, if Namath didn’t play for the Jets, he wouldn’t have gone to the hall. I will concede that I could be wrong. I realize the SB III victory was historic for so many reasons, so it’s hard to ignore. But NY teams tend to become immortalized because of the media center that NYC is.

I think this is silly and wrong. If instead of the Jets it were the Chargers, same deal.

Also, the way you make it sound, Phil Simms must be in the Hall of Fame.

[Superhal]

I’ve seen this question many times, and the answer will always be Marino:

Best QB who never won an SB.
Best QB who opened a steak house.
Best QB who had curly hair.
Best right-handed QB.
etc. etc. etc.

Any question, ever, that starts with “The best QB” has Marino in the running, because, quite simply, he was the most talented QB ever. If you started the question with the Best RB, Best WR, etc. there’s always only 1 person whose name floats to the top because of their sheer talent.

Maybe we can think of a way to phrase this question that isn’t talent-centric, simply to get more discussion?

As is, another vote for Marino.

How about:
The worst QB who led a bad team to the Superbowl (win or lose)?
The best QB who won the superbowl with a crappy team?

[astorian]

Oh no, not the old “New York athletes always get too much praise and adulation” complaint.

I offer the same challenges I always offer when that meme comes up. If New York media bias is so blatant, you should have NO trouble naming me:

1. Five New York players in the Pro Football Hall of Fame who don’t deserve to be. I’ll be kind enough to give you Joe Namath (though it’s not obviosu that he’s undeserving). Now, give me 4 more.

2. Five Jets or Giants who’ve won big NFL awards that they didn’t deserve. That could be Rookie of the Year, Offensive/Defensive Player of the Year, AP Player of the Year… if you’re right, this should be easy.

[Superhal]

@astorian

Oh no, not the old “New York athletes always get too much praise and adulation” complaint.

I offer the same challenges I always offer when that meme comes up. If New York media bias is so blatant, you should have NO trouble naming me:

1. Five New York players in the Pro Football Hall of Fame who don’t deserve to be. I’ll be kind enough to give you Joe Namath (though it’s not obviosu that he’s undeserving). Now, give me 4 more.

2. Five Jets or Giants who’ve won big NFL awards that they didn’t deserve. That could be Rookie of the Year, Offensive/Defensive Player of the Year, AP Player of the Year… if you’re right, this should be easy.

1. There’s 5 in the hall of fame? Wow! I didn’t think any made it…well after they take away LT’s bust.

2. All of them?

[zamboniracer]

@astorian

Oh no, not the old “New York athletes always get too much praise and adulation” complaint.

I offer the same challenges I always offer when that meme comes up. If New York media bias is so blatant, you should have NO trouble naming me:

1. Five New York players in the Pro Football Hall of Fame who don’t deserve to be. I’ll be kind enough to give you Joe Namath (though it’s not obviosu that he’s undeserving). Now, give me 4 more.

I’d say Phil Rizzuto but he was a baseball player. Holy Cow.

[astorian]

@zamboniracer

I’d say Phil Rizzuto but he was a baseball player. Holy Cow.

Phil probably IS undeserving, but he wasn’t elected by “the media.” He was picked by the Veterans’ Committee, who have made LOADS of bad choices.

And they’ve chosen FAR more undeserving St. Louis Cardinals than Yankees.

[Superhal]

@astorian

Phil probably IS undeserving, but he wasn’t elected by “the media.” He was picked by the Veterans’ Committee, who have made LOADS of bad choices.

And they’ve chosen FAR more undeserving St. Louis Cardinals than Yankees.

The baseball hof is like the village bicycle: everybody gets a ride.

I heard a good quote about the difference between the two: Every year, we have the same discussion: who got left out of the Football HOF, and those who made it into the Baseball HOF.