# The Bible Code is Back! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [September 13, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432 "2003-09-13T20:29:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/1 "2003-09-13T20:29:12Z")
[I thought this fad had gone the way of the pet rock, but alas, some myths are hard to put down.](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbiblecode.html) You can say that again, **Dex**. Tonight on the [History Channel](http://www.historychannel.com/global/listings/listings.jsp?NetwCode=THC): > [@](#): > > Is there a prophetic, highly accurate code locked within the Bible that outlines past and future events? Does the Code contain hidden messages about people such as Napoleon, Einstein, and Hitler, and key world events like WWII, the Kennedy brothers’ assassinations, and 9/11? More frightening are references to future events–including Earth’s impending end. We take a balanced look through the eyes of Code supporters and critics and let viewers determine its accuracy predicting future gloomy events. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/2 "2003-09-13T21:43:54Z")
Sigh. It’s amazing how people want to believe in something so badly, that they’ll swallow almost anything – hook, line, and sinker – if it seems to bolster those beliefs. I gonna start my own televangelist show, make millions. ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/3 "2003-09-13T23:54:17Z")
It’s starting right now, and I’m actually watching it in the hope that there will be _some_ sort of skeptical viewpoint presented. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/4 "2003-09-14T00:11:35Z")
I’ve been watching it, and thus far there has been depressingly little skepticism presented. Does Fox™ own the History Channel™ now? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/5 "2003-09-14T00:26:49Z")
It’s not history; it’s entertainment. It sells advertising and rakes in the bux, just like the [Weekly World News.](http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/) In this week’s headlines: > [@](#): > > Parrot to become U.N. Interpreter! > > Giant Space Spiders Will Save the Earth! > > Women’s Hot Flashes Cause Global Warming! See? No difference! ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/6 "2003-09-14T01:14:27Z")
“Best Kept Secret of WWII: Hitler was a woman!” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/7 "2003-09-14T01:22:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Musicat \* > \*\*It’s not history; it’s entertainment. \*\* That explains why it says A&E on the website. ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/8 "2003-09-16T16:52:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > \*\*Sigh. > > It’s amazing how people want to believe in something so badly, that they’ll swallow almost anything – hook, line, and sinker – if it seems to bolster those beliefs. > > I gonna start my own televangelist show, make millions. \*\* Yes, it’s also amazing how people only believe religious people are the only ones who do this. I think we’re all guilty of self-serving bias. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/9 "2003-09-19T16:36:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ptahlis \* > \*\*It’s starting right now, and I’m actually watching it in the hope that there will be _some_ sort of skeptical viewpoint presented. \*\* I actually watched the whole thing. At the end, they did point out that using the same tecnique, Moby Dick predicted the winner of some NASCAR race (or maybe it was the assassination of JFK). Also, there were long interviews with Rabbis who explained the _traditional_ use of numerology in the Bible. It has nothing to do with predicting anything. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/10 "2003-09-19T17:26:26Z")
So there is a _traditional_ use of numerology in the Bible, accepted by Rabbis? Does that mean they think the traditional stuff works, but the new, computerized non-traditional stuff doesn’t? Just curious, **Tapioca,** since I didn’t see this program, was the skeptical part merely tacked on for a few seconds at the end so it could easily be ignored, or was it presented a serious refutation? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/11 "2003-09-19T19:42:33Z")
The show did save up the refutation until the end, but they gave around five minutes, and it was pretty obvious (IMHO) that the guys who made the show thought that it was the important five minutes. As for the significance of gematria, the study of numerology in the Torah, I am definitely not the guy to ask. I’m not Jewish for a start. From my very limited knowledge, though, here’s what I have learned. Numerical values are assigned to words/phrases in the Torah. Theses are compared to words/phrases of the same value elsewhere in the Torah. The reason for this is to gain a deeper understanding of the nature of G-d. It seems to me though that this practice results in people actually reading the Torah and thinking about what it means. And this, in itself, has to be a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/12 "2003-09-19T23:22:07Z")
Traditional numerology serves (served) a number of purposes, seeking for “hidden meanings” in what was perceived as divine text. For instance, if the numerical value of one name was equivalent to the numerical value of another name, the rabbis who cared about that sort of thing would draw some moral lesson or conclusion or connection. The numerology was also believed to have magical potency, of course. We’re actually working on a Staff Report on this topic, but it will be many months before we get anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/13 "2003-09-19T23:47:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tapioca Dextrin \* > The show did save up the refutation until the end, but they gave around five minutes, and it was pretty obvious (IMHO) that the guys who made the show thought that it was the important five minutes. Seems odd that in an hour show (it was an hour, right?) the most important part was in the last five minutes. Any info as to who/what is behind this show? **Dex,** I’m sure we are all looking forward to that Staff Report. It sounds like you had intended it to include only traditional Torah numerology, but maybe you need to address the “modern” version as well? Like – The more things change, the more they stay the same? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/14 "2003-09-20T01:18:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Musicat \* > \*\*Seems odd that in an hour show (it was an hour, right?) the most important part was in the last five minutes. Any info as to who/what is behind this show? > \*\* I think (but don’t know) that the show’s producers decided to let the guys with the Bible decoder rings condem themselves using their own words. Being intercut with rabbis who insisted that whatever the hidden meaning of the Pentateuch was, it was absolutely not to be used for divining the future gave me an indication of where the producers’ hearts lay. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/15 "2003-09-20T18:55:40Z")
\<\< It sounds like you had intended it to include only traditional Torah numerology, but maybe you need to address the “modern” version as well? Like – The more things change, the more they stay the same? \>\> Well… it was going to cover ancient Greek numerology (a la the Pythagorean school), then Hebrew numerology and gematria, then the Christian adaptations … That’s probably why it’s taking forever to research and try to write. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/16 "2003-09-20T20:07:58Z")
That’s even better yet, **Dex** , numerology thru the ages & cultures. If that is the topic, then the “modern” bible codes would seem to be the latest twist on the same old nonsense. I hope you will be interviewing Dr. Matrix and his dentally-challenged assistant, One-Tooth Rhee, last reported to be hanging out at Pyramid Lake, NV. I’m sure you can get in touch with them thru Martin Gardner. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/17 "2003-09-20T20:11:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tapioca Dextrin \* > …the show’s producers decided to let the guys with the Bible decoder rings condem themselves using their own words. Being intercut with rabbis who insisted that whatever the hidden meaning of the Pentateuch was, it was absolutely not to be used for divining the future… Wouldn’t this be a case of the pot calling the kettle un-kosher? ;j ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/18 "2003-09-22T18:38:34Z")
> [@](#): > > I hope you will be interviewing Dr. Matrix and his dentally-challenged assistant, One-Tooth Rhee, last reported to be hanging out at Pyramid Lake, NV. I’m sure you can get in touch with them thru Martin Gardner. Psst, **Musicat** , look at the mod list for GQ. We’re more likely to get in touch with Martin Gardner through **DrMatrix**. But what’s this about **Cajun Man** having bad teeth? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/19 "2003-10-02T01:33:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tapioca Dextrin \* > **The show did save up the refutation until the end, but they gave around five minutes, and it was pretty obvious (IMHO) that the guys who made the show thought that it was the important five minutes.** That wasn’t the impression **I** got from the show. They gave the _Moby Dick_ guy about two minutes, tops, and then launched right back into the Bible-Code Believers talking about how “astronomical” the odds were against finding, say, both “Kennedy” and “Dallas” in the same small text grid. No word about how they were only searching for “Kennedy”, and would have circled ANY other word in the grid that had even a remote connection to Kennedy while ignoring all the other words. No word about how Hebrew lacks vowels, so the Bible-Code Snoopers didn’t really have to find “Kennedy” and “Dallas”, they only had to find “Knndy” and “Dlls”. Sure, the guys who got in the last word said that the Bible Code was useless as a **predictive** tool, but gave no indication that the Bible Code contained nothing more in the way of “hidden messages” than any other arbitrary vowel-free text of the same length. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432/20 "2003-10-02T11:29:56Z")
[Nitpick] Even worse - all they had to find was “KNDY” and **any of the following** : “DLS”, “DALS”, “DLAS” or “DALAS”. You see, Hebrew HAS some vowels, but they can often be used (or not) on the whim of the writer - sort of like medieval English. [/nitpick] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-bible-code-is-back/201432.md?page=2)