Using the very same Bible, they can and will say the same of any Biblical argument you can put forth.
The royal robe that Pontius Pilate’s men put on Him?
Easier to make a really big needle.
One thing that hasn’t been considered is what the world would be like with “everyone” as a millionaire.
No one would be destitute, of course, but half-a-grand suits would be much, much more expensive. No one would have money to burn. Luxury items would be something to save up carefully for.
Did you know that Heavy Metal music is a branch of psychedelic music? There are some very strange linkages and derivations out there.
Prosperity gospel is not quite a branch of, but is related to, Christian Perfectionism and the Holiness movement, and it’s not clearly in conflict with any of the Fundamentals Of The Faith I was taught.
The fascinating thing about Prosperity Gospel, Christian Perfectionism, and the Holiness movement, is that it’s not clearly always destructive. And it’s not clearly always safe. It’s kind of like being mildly manic, as in manic-depressive, as in bipolar disorder.
It is well known that people (past adolescence) tend to be non-optimally risk-adverse. On average, we’d all be better off on average if we took a few more risks. And prosperity gospel teaches you to take greater risks.
[QUOTE=William Carey]
Expect great things from God. Attempt great things for God.
[/QUOTE]
. And sometimes that ends badly
Like the Holiness movement, Prosperity Gospel doesn’t just teach to you to put your money at risk. It puts you in a place where your mind is at risk too. I’m reminded of a quote (now lost) from a man who ran trust-building workshops in the '60s: “We could teach you to be more trusting. But people didn’t become more trustworthy”
you win the internet today!
It is false ministry, the ministers etc are really only looking to fund a comfortable life themselves. Religion of this type is a business first and tithing is a great little earner.
I don’t think these people expect everyone to actually be a millionaire just as they don’t expect everyone to get into heaven. They just want to create a religious justification for the wealth they already have.
Of course the most common explanation is that it is a parable and the master represents Christ and the slaves his followers, but then the tale is more related to good deeds done, not material wealth.
But is the parable really about god wanting us to be rich in the material sense?
Nor likely when one realizes that the servants were really slaves, a lot of the ideas that the Prosperity Theology attaches to that parable look really silly, because there is no talk whatsoever about the slaves becoming free; (it also assumes slavery should be the normal state of affairs, so it is not a tale about prospering on your own at all) most of the profits that the slaves generated go to the master anyhow, the slaves remain slaves though a few get some perks.
Ah HA ! Celestial 401k ! That’s why you gotta tithe, see ? It’s all added to your post-life pension account, you must pay your own way up there ![]()
Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22:
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Mark-10-21/
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Luke-18-22/
Then again, Margaret Thatcher did argue that for the Good Samaritan to do his good deed,he needed to have made the money in the first place. But I get the impression that this Prosperity Theology thing seems to stop there; or at least somewhere not too far from the theologian’s pocket.
Isn’t Joel Osteen that mega-famous pastor for one of those gigantic mega-churches that first really put Prosperity Gospel into into the mainstream media’s and public’s awareness? Dude’s a creep.
Baptism vs infant dedication, scriptural different. Baptism is a decision of the person. Since baptism is assumed a scriptural needed part of salvation (is it not, it is silent about people who believe and are not baptized, and we have the thief on the cross promises paradise by Lord Jesus which may be assumed as not baptized), the motivation is to save their children that allows this infant dedication baptism. So the desire to chose to be baptized is understandable.
Tithing, Scripturally the sons are exempt from the temple tax. And my second question is what is the penalty for not tithing that Jesus didn’t pay in full for us? - There is no remaining penalty for not tithing as the penalty was paid in full. Further the church commonly says ‘give us 10% of your money and trust God to provide’, well that church is not trusting God to provide for itself, but it’s own ability to persuade people to give, so a church that stresses tithing is not trusting God with it’s own finances and should take the mote out of it’s own eye instead of trying to clear the speck out of the other person’s eye.
Prosperity. Yes God wants us to share in the inheritance of Lord Jesus, God wants to provide for his/her children, but also God needs to teach us what we need to learn. Physically prosperity is not necessarily assured by God as God knows what we need, which may or may not be a new airplane. Also riches and prosperity may come not from owning things, but from access to them, I believe he has blessed some people this way, people are just willing to let these people use their stuff like airplanes, when they need them. So it may not come in the form that one might expect. That last one I have experienced, not in the form of airplanes, but in terms of being welcomes into people’s houses in some long distance hikes I ahve done.
The soldiers took that robe off before He was crucified.
The robe the soldiers gambled for was worth more than His other clothes because it was woven in one piece. Cloth was expensive because it was woven by hand. Jesus’ other clothes could be taken apart along the hems, and the cloth re-sewn into other uses (see the parable about new cloth and old garments, and old vs. new wineskins). Tearing the tunic would ruin it, because it had no seams.
I rather doubt owning one decent tunic makes one rich.
The prosperity gospel strikes me as a rather unfortunate combination of simple fraud (“Send me enough money and God will make you rich!” - sort of the Nigerian e-mail but with better English), magical thinking (“the fortune teller told me to give her $100 and she would remove the curse from my money”), and confusion over the usually positive results of wise stewardship and common-sense investment vs. an overly literal interpretation of the parable of the talents. Yes, God wants you to use what He gives you wisely. Yes, God will bless your tithe. But turning the Gospel into a get-rich-quick scheme is simony - and that shrinks the eye of the needle almost to vanishing.
Regards,
Shodan
This has summed up my theory:
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”
― John Steinbeck
BTW, I recall something I read in Asimov’s Guide to the Bible: In the Middle Ages, Catholic clergy told the laity that in Jesus’ time, the wall around Jerusalem had a low gate called “the Needle,” and that was what he was talking about. A camel heavy-laden and piled high with goods could not pass through the Needle, but it could if you took some of the goods off. I.e., if you’re rich, you don’t need to make yourself poor to get into Heaven, you only need to lighten the load a little, i.e., give some of your wealth to God, i.e., to the Church. ![]()
I heard that one too, and it doesn’t sound plausible to me that Jesus was talking about a gate. The disciples reacted as if it were impossible, not that it would require adjustment.
Perhaps the priests of the Middle Ages could get away with pushing that interpretation before the Bible was common in the vernacular, and people could judge the story for themselves.
Regards,
Shodan
Just move to Indonesia were everyone is a millionaire.
Hardly. Osteen wasn’t even a sparkle in his parents’ eyes when Oral Roberts was raking in the cash.
Staff Report: What’s the meaning of Jesus’ teaching about the camel going through the eye of a needle?, and More on camels passing through the eyes of needles
And actually, if we were literally all millionaires, wouldn’t that just be massive inflation with no gain in actual wealth?