# The Biblical reference to America's new 'Moab' Bomb is chilling. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 12, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879 "2003-03-12T17:44:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/21 "2003-03-13T02:32:19Z")
Does anyone remember when in Gulf War I Saddam predicted the “Mother of All Battles”? Me thinks this might be a jab at him and not some deep Biblical reference… ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/22 "2003-03-13T02:53:20Z")
I’d agree, Rhum. But the interesting fact is, it’s really not _much_ more than a Fuel-Air Explosive. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/23 "2003-03-13T03:06:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > \*\*I’d agree, Rhum. But the interesting fact is, it’s really not _much_ more than a Fuel-Air Explosive. \*\* Another interesting fact is that much of the ‘recipe’ for the FAE came from the Russians, who have a broad range of ‘thermobaric’ weapons, from shoulder-launched, to guided ATGMs, to city-busters that were used to good effect in Grozny. Detente at its finest! ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/24 "2003-03-13T03:27:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > \*\*I’d agree, Rhum. But the interesting fact is, it’s really not _much_ more than a Fuel-Air Explosive. \*\* You know, I asked about that in a thread in GQ the other day, because some of the reports I had read made this thing sound like a fuel air job, but then when you see it, and when they describe it as a penetrating bomb and what not it looks like just straight up HE. In GQ it was said that it was just a HE bomb, albeit a big one. Do you know for sure what it is? I am still unclear, but it seems to _not_ be a fuel air bomb. (For those of you who don’t know what a fuel air bomb is, it works by dispersing a cloud of vapor and then detonating it, great for clearing minefields since it creates a high preasure over a wide area. Don’t think it would do much to penetrate a bunker though) ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/25 "2003-03-13T04:18:33Z")
Well, the Blooie-82 was a FAE bomb. If this is a decendant of it, and it pretty much has to be, because you can’t MAKE a bomb that big with the impact it has and not have it be an FAE, then it’s a FAE. It may not penetrate a bunker, but it _will_ collapse it. [http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/iraq/article.jsp?id=99993495&sub=News%20update](http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/iraq/article.jsp?id=99993495&sub=News%20update) This seems to say FAE. I quote, Technical details of the MOAB are said to be classified, but the device is described by military officials as “similar” in design to the BLU-82, or Daisy Cutter. This was first used by the US military in the Vietnam War and most recently in Afghanistan. The seven-tonne BLU-82 contains an explosive mixture of ammonium nitrate and powdered aluminium in an aqueous suspension. This is detonated a few feet above the ground after the bomb is parachuted from low altitude from the back of a Hercules transport aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/26 "2003-03-13T04:37:55Z")
[Moab Utah is not amused](http://news.excite.com/odd/article/id/306028%7Coddlyenough%7C02-28-2003%3A%3A09%3A47%7Creuters.html) ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/27 "2003-03-13T04:43:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > \*\*Well, the Blooie-82 was a FAE bomb. If this is a decendant of it, and it pretty much has to be, because you can’t MAKE a bomb that big with the impact it has and not have it be an FAE, then it’s a FAE. [http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/iraq/article.jsp?id=99993495&sub=News%20update](http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/iraq/article.jsp?id=99993495&sub=News%20update) > This seems to say FAE. > \*\* From your link… > [@](#): > > The 9.7-tonne device contains only conventional explosives, but creates a mushroom cloud and a shockwave similar to that of a small nuclear explosion. I think it is just a big bomb, though not the biggest. Have you seen [this?](http://www.qsl.net/aa6rv/photos/aberdeen5.htm) I couldn’t find much more on it on the web, but [this](http://www.afsoc.af.mil/panews/conventional_bomb.htm) site mentions it and calls it the T-12 Cloudmaker, a 44,000 lb bomb. Wow. I don’t _think_ the picture in my first link is the work of photoshop, but it is so big it almost looks that way. I like the way they call it “General Purpose” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/28 "2003-03-13T04:49:57Z")
The [BLU-82](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-82.htm) (“Daisy Cutter”) isn’t a Fuel-Air Explosive: > [@](#): > > Frequent press reports to the contrary, the Daisy Cutter is not a fuel-air explosive (FAE). It is a conventional explosive incorporating both agent and oxidizer. In contrast, an FAE consists only of agent and a dispersing mechanism, and takes its oxidizer from the oxygen in the air. FAEs generally run between 500 and 2000 pounds; it would be difficult to make an FAE the size of Daisy Cutter because the correct uniform mixture of agent with ambient air would be difficult to maintain if the agent were so widely dispersed. Thus, the conventional explosive technique of Daisy Cutter is more reliable than that of an FAE, particularly if there is significant wind or thermal gradient. Here’s some more information on [fuel-air explosives](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/fae.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/29 "2003-03-13T04:52:30Z")
[This cite claims MOAB is not FAE.](http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/default.asp?target=moab.htm) > [@](#): > > Until the BLU-82 came along, the biggest non-nuclear explosion obtainable was with a FAE (Fuel Air Explosives). FAE works by dropping a bomb that is actually a large aerosol dispenser. When the FAE “explodes” it first dispenses a large cloud of flammable material (anything like gasoline or propane will work). The cloud is then ignited and huge explosion results. There’s one drawback, the size and density of the aerosol cloud depends a lot on the wind, air temperature and humidity. So the power of the explosion will vary a lot. But it’s difficult to get a FAE to work in a bomb larger than 2000 pounds. So the replacement for the BLU-82 bomb, called MOAB (Massive Ordnance Air Burst) simply uses more of the slurry of ammonium nitrate and powdered aluminum… Ah, on preview I see that **MEBuckner** has similar info, but I’ll post this anyway. ---
**Author:** ![LokiTheDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6f9a4e/32.png) [@LokiTheDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LokiTheDog)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/30 "2003-03-13T05:22:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phlosphr \* > \*\* > From the bible: …One day, Lot’s oldest daughter, whose judgment had obviously become severely warped after having lived in Sodom, decided to start an incestuous family - … - So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. …" (Genesis 19:30-38) \*\* Hmm, you have end quotes but no start quotes, so is this a “quote” from the bible or not? If it is, it’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read. The daughters get blamed for getting pregnant by their father? He was just an innocent bystander? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/31 "2003-03-13T05:45:21Z")
[quoteJust a clean kill. We Americans are so thoughtful.[/quote] Given an alternative of a horrible, living decomposition of radiation poisoning, yes. Regardless, it seems this will likely not be available for the Gulf War II, and won’t be needed in any case, but they might drop one or two if they get the opportunity to hit some Republican Guards. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/32 "2003-03-13T06:00:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LokiTheDog \* > \*\* The daughters get blamed for getting pregnant by their father? He was just an innocent bystander? \*\* The bible actually says that his daughters got Lot so drunk he passed out and then slept with him, so he was an “innocent bystander” in that regard. As for Lot’s daughters, it wasn’t so much that they made an error of judgement or that their judgement was warped, but that they were ignorant of the facts. See, when the cities of the plain got destroyed, Lot’s daughters thought that G-d had done the same thing everywhere…that He had wiped out the entire human race, and so the three of them were the only three people left alive in the world. Therefore, they felt that they had to do what they did to continue the human race. Here’s the actual biblical verses, without the paraphrasing. 🙂 [quote] Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. Let’s get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father.” That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I lay with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today. [/quote0 ---
**Author:** ![SojournerSamson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SojournerSamson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SojournerSamson)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/33 "2003-03-13T07:02:23Z")
The bit from Isiah about baldheads and beardless faces is a ritual for grieving,not an allusion to nuclear warfare. However if Moab is a ''cleaner,clinical bomb" then I will purchase that Brooklyn Bridge and the check is in the mail. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/34 "2003-03-13T08:36:42Z")
[Minor Hijack] Am I the only one who is utterly astounded by how consistently the Bush administration comes up with labels, quotations and terminology deriving from the Bible? However much a Christian Shrub might be, he is also the selected leader of a polytheistic nation. A country that specifically owes it grandeur to freedom of and freedom _from_ religion. Whether it be calling the early anti-terror campaign a “crusade,” quoting Biblical passages over the lost shuttle crew or allowing a monstrous bomb specifically designed for the disruption of WMD to be named after a central Judeo-Christian reference point, all of it is incredibly stupid to the point of being dangerous. Bush idiotically puts America at increased and further risk of terrorist attack by portraying this country as a Christian nation. Combine this asinine convolving of church and state with the very potent fear that an “end times” mentality may pervade the White House and the needless endangerment of our population becomes outrageous. This is an utterly just war being fought by an imbecile with all of the wrong motivations. I am absolutely revolted by how these executive secular religious references are painting crosshairs [_pun intended_] on our backs. It is nothing short of hideous. [/Minor Hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/35 "2003-03-13T08:48:58Z")
\ Just an interesting tidbit, the USAF actually dropped a bomb called the “TX-14” on 40 different occasions in 1952 from a modified B 36 bomber. The TX-14 was 50,000 lbs in weight. Another experimental bomb, apparently never dropped, was the TX-16, reported as weighing 63,000 lbs. [Some more info (PDF)](http://www.uscoldwar.com/hindenburg/Hindenbg_9_10.pdf) \ ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/36 "2003-03-13T12:21:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Am I the only one who is utterly astounded by how consistently the Bush administration comes up with labels, quotations and terminology deriving from the Bible? This has got to be the most jaw-dropping rant I’ve ever seen, aside from being very illogical. In any event, I doubt the soldiers and engineers who came up with the name asked Bush about it. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/37 "2003-03-13T12:34:16Z")
Ah, we’re getting into _tight_ nomeclature, then. In which case, true, it is not a FAE, as it is self-contained, but it is mechanically similar to one in significant ways; that is, as opposed to your standard bomb, it’s still an “explosive mixture of ammonium nitrate and powdered aluminium”, if in an aqueous solution with an oxidizer, rather than using air. Which is what I was getting at. I’m not sure if there is a term for this type of bomb, though. And it certainly is cleaner and more clinical than a nuke. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/38 "2003-03-13T12:46:32Z")
[quote] Would you like the army to develop a bomb that spreads joy and scatters flowers and money about the target? What exactly do you think bombs are for? Party favors? The GBU-XXX-6969-2KEWEL-4-U ---- “Party Bomb” Also, “Divine Retribution” or “Pagan Killer” Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/39 "2003-03-13T12:55:51Z")
Coding pirate strikes again. Sorry, **MEB** , I’ve had a bad week. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879/40 "2003-03-13T13:24:03Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Beagle \* \*\* > [@](#): > > Would you like the army to develop a bomb that spreads joy and scatters flowers and money about the target? What exactly do you think bombs are for? Party favors? > > The GBU-XXX-6969-2KEWEL-4-U ---- “Party Bomb” > > \*\* When they fly missions to drop it, instead of playing Wagner, they play KISS and Beastie Boys. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-biblical-reference-to-americas-new-moab-bomb-is-chilling/160879.md?page=3)